Keatah Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 I don't think we're going to go through the trouble of pledging in kickstarter when we pretty much know the goal won't be met. But I will state for the record if these become available through Plan B (unknown time frame now) or like retail, then sure, we're going to buy some. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 I don't think we're going to go through the trouble of pledging in kickstarter when we pretty much know the goal won't be met. But I will state for the record if these become available through Plan B (unknown time frame now) or like retail, then sure, we're going to buy some. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPR Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 I don't think we're going to go through the trouble of pledging in kickstarter... Firstly - While I disagree with that statement because it really isn't any "trouble" at all and if showing your support towards the homebrew community is "trouble" then I question how involved you really are with that community. Secondly - That being said, I do have *some* understanding why someone on this forum would say that because if you follow these forums, you probably will be able to inform yourself of what the "Plan B" is. That same cannot be said for more casual retro gaming fans who may be interested, but aren't following these forums or ColecoVision socials as closely. ...when we pretty much know the goal won't be met. And finally - You DON'T know the goal won't be met. There have been projects that have pulled surprise funding at the very end. And by taking such a lackluster approach to if you're going to back a project or not, then it most certainly won't fund, and you certainly wouldn't have been any help in that outcome. I would really want to hope that someone who is on these forums and involved with the CV community would want to show their support over someone who is just a casual retrogaming fan, but that's just me. I have funded, backed, and supported quite a few projects, even those I may only be casually into because I don't feel it is that much trouble, and if a group of people are going to spend their own time and money putting together a project mostly out of passion, the least I can do is show my appreciation for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orange808 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 I found this video that is about a week and a half old. Don't know who these guys are but they seem luke warm and sarcastic about the Phoenix, which doesn't help if their viewers aren't critical thinkers. The Algonquin Round Table begins at 53:52 Okay. Well... That's the owners of HDRetroVision, Voultar (creator of multiple console mod boards), and Bob (RetroRGB). There's an awful lot of gaming hardware knowledge there. RetroRGB has a blurb about this console on his site and there's nothing nasty there at all. So, you should leave him out of this. If you have a good product, Bob will bend over backwards to help. I'm not sure what universe you live in, but in the real world "critical thinking" is defined by: starting out luke warm and learning about a product before getting 100% invested. I'm skeptical of this machine. Sarcasm seems like a common thing in this hobby. (I can't help you there.) Those RetroRoundtable guys are potential allies. This community doesn't want to burn bridges worrying about a little sarcasm or skepticism. We've all watched (so) many products come and go over the years, so it's easy to understand why many people feel jaded. Also, putting something out into gaming community these days is a huge undertaking. There will be criticism and lots of questions. That's to be expected. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 I don't get people's problem with credit cards. How do you buy stuff online without a credit card? I don't either. There are many safe options and variations for using a CC or debit card online. It's easy to keep a dedicated card with a small amount like $5,000 or so, at the ready, for any online purchase. Replenish manually through online banking as you see fit. You can also get disposable one-time-use numbers that are valid for a specific transaction only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmer Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 It is hard to say whether the Phoenix will support all the features of the MK2. The MK2 has a dedicated 512k SRAM. The Phoenix has the same 512K SRAM but it is not dedicated to just the F18a core. The Phoenix is open source so the features that get added would really be up to Matthew as far as what he wants to include, but as the MK2 is his personal project he would be the one to answer that. Thank you for the polite response. Yep, it really is all a question of which things your FPGA programmers are putting in the Spartan's internal block-ram, and what they're using the 512KBytes of super-fast SRAM for ... which is something that only the technical-design folks on your team can answer. It doesn't really matter from the POV of pure ColecoVision compatibility, and thus to almost-everybody that is watching this thread and considering pledging to your Kickstarter, and I guess that the information may well have to wait until your Plan B takes effect, and you guys start shipping the Phoenix in its final-spec version. I wish you the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orange808 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 I assume the Atari 2600 core is frame buffered? For compatibility, that seems to be the common practice. What about the Colecovision emulation? Yes. I'm asking the dreaded "lag" question. How does it work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmack36 Posted October 29, 2018 Author Share Posted October 29, 2018 I assume the Atari 2600 core is frame buffered? For compatibility, that seems to be the common practice. What about the Colecovision emulation? Yes. I'm asking the dreaded "lag" question. How does it work? Yes the Atari 2600 core will have to be frame buffered since the Atari 2600 can output variable framerates. The Colecovision core is just line doubled so there should be no lag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Firstly - While I disagree with that statement because it really isn't any "trouble" at all and if showing your support towards the homebrew community is "trouble" then I question how involved you really are with that community. I'm not involved with the CV community much at all today. I didn't feel welcome a few years back and there's little reason to change now. So I simply enjoy the vintage CV games I had as a kid and that's good enough for me. I would really want to hope that someone who is on these forums and involved with the CV community would want to show their support over someone who is just a casual retrogaming fan, but that's just me. I have funded, backed, and supported quite a few projects, even those I may only be casually into because I don't feel it is that much trouble, and if a group of people are going to spend their own time and money putting together a project mostly out of passion, the least I can do is show my appreciation for it. There are many groups of people making unique and innovative products. Passion or not.. It doesn't mean we should automatically fund them just because they are doing such activities. Unfortunately that is how I read the tone of this thread. A headlong goading of buy buy buy. That in and of itself is a turn-off As a traditional consumer I *will* purchase through retail or online. And I will order ~10'ish for our tech party. But I will not pre-order and I will not do kickstarter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 There is definitely a vocal minority in our community who are against things like the way modern consoles work, crowdfunding platforms, or anything else most of us take for granted as "normal" things, etc., but there's no way it's anywhere near enough to have made a difference for this Kickstarter. No doubt they set that goal because that was the bare minimum needed, but it was only a realistic goal if somehow the campaign had gone viral. Certainly the project is worthy of viral status, but you can never force something like that. If the project is worthy of viral status then it would have achieved viral status. Viral with FPGA classic gaming enthusiasts and CV users, sure. Viral worldwide? Naw.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPR Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 That's the owners of HDRetroVision, Voultar (creator of multiple console mod boards), and Bob (RetroRGB). There's an awful lot of gaming hardware knowledge there. I don't know who any of these people are and all I know that while you claim there may be a lot of "gaming hardware knowledge" there, they seem to offer zero knowledge of the ColecoVision, the CV homebrew community or the console's fanbase, both hardcore and casual. The fact that they are mentioning "Chameleon" and drawing comparisons to this console almost immediately makes me think this discussion cannot be taken seriously. After listening to the entire discussion, it's pretty clear to me these guys aren't going to be the Phoenix's audience, customers, or supporters, and I'm not even sure why they are talking about it in the first place other than some people just feel the need to "chime in" even when they don't have a clue what they are talking about. Honestly, that discussion doesn't make them sound like allies. If anything, they came across more as obnoxious ageist A-holes because they just don't like systems older than the NES. They said multiple times in that discussion have they have zero interest or nostalgia for anything older than an NES or Master System. The one guy makes fun of labeling the console as an "FPGA" but what exactly is CollectorVision supposed to call it because they aren't just throwing around that term for marketability as the roundtable suggests, it is labeled that way because that's exactly what that system is. These guys just seem completely un-informed and I'm all for someone having an opinion, but FFS, maybe at least TRY to have that opinion based on something you're familiar with? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannacek Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 (edited) As a traditional consumer I *will* purchase through retail or online. And I will order ~10'ish for our tech party. But I will not pre-order and I will not do kickstarter. The goal of any Kickstarter is to Kickstart the funding of the initial batch of the product, and deliver that product to the backers. Then once the backers have their rewards delivered, they can produce more of the item to be sold through traditional means, such as online or in stores. You have a right to wait for the kickstarter to be over, and the product to be sold in traditional means. Choosing to wait for a traditional release does not make someone less of a ColecoVision fan, or not supporting the community. The ColecoVision community is no a monolithic community that all has to do one thing or another. It is perfectly acceptable to not support this project at all, or to wait for a traditional release of this product. It is perfectly acceptable to wait for the product to be released, read reviews and watch review videos, and then make a decision if you want to buy it. Don't say waiting and not pledging on Kickstarter is why projects fail. Choosing to wait doesn't mean you want the project to fail, it just means you have decided for a variety of legitimate reasons that you want to wait. People have a right to refuse to support crowdfunding campaigns if they have issues with crowdfunding platforms. People are entitled to their opinions on whether or not they want to participate in crowdfunding. Edited October 29, 2018 by Hannacek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 It is ok to not being interested in this Phoenix console, or heck, Colecovision Coming here just to put fuel on fire to maintain/cause drama is useless Don't get me wrong, if you have any concerns/questions, it's all good! But please, don't just post here for the wrong reasons .... pleaseWe're passionate by the Colecovision system, and we are simply bringing a new solution We're not forcing you to buy, support or even like our idea of making a new CV consoleBut that's the console we like the most and we'll make it happen, whatever people think about it or compare it to the chameleon We do have a solid product, and we are still confident about it Cheers 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPR Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 I'm not involved with the CV community much at all today. I didn't feel welcome a few years back and there's little reason to change now. So I simply enjoy the vintage CV games I had as a kid and that's good enough for me. As a traditional consumer I *will* purchase through retail or online. But I will not pre-order and I will not do kickstarter. I guess I just don't understand these people who keep coming into this discussion openly admitting they aren't part of this community and probably aren't going to be a customer for this console, but still want the campaign to cater to their personal preferences. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Done 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insertclevernamehere Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 I don't think we're going to go through the trouble of pledging in kickstarter when we pretty much know the goal won't be met. Catch 22? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 I don't think we're going to go through the trouble of pledging in kickstarter when we pretty much know the goal won't be met. But I will state for the record if these become available through Plan B (unknown time frame now) or like retail, then sure, we're going to buy some. At this point, the whole reason to pledge to let them know who and how many potential customers there are. If everyone sat back and just waited for plan B they'd have no idea how big that potential base of customers could be. So go ahead and pledge. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmack36 Posted October 29, 2018 Author Share Posted October 29, 2018 Can we please leave the bickering back and forth from both sides out of this forum. All it is doing is driving people away and causing division. Please at least think about what you are posting before doing so. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 At this point, the whole reason to pledge to let them know who and how many potential customers there are. If everyone sat back and just waited for plan B they'd have no idea how big that potential base of customers could be. So go ahead and pledge. Stating the obvious here but if this gets funded there's no plan B and pledges are not to get a sense of potential customers, pledges have to be honored. So pledge with the intent to be all in on it either in KS mode or plan B mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmack36 Posted October 29, 2018 Author Share Posted October 29, 2018 Stating the obvious here but if this gets funded there's no plan B and pledges are not just so to get a sense of potential customers, pledges have to be honored. So pledge with the intent to be all in on it either in KS mode or plan B mode. Yes, if the kickstarter gets funded, Everything will move forward as originally planned. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorgb Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 I can't speak for the other guys on the Roundtable, but personally I would love to see this project funded. More importantly, actions speak louder than words: The news section of my site has covered the project multiple times and each post gets talked about in the weekly podcast which gets thousands of views/listens per week. Maybe rather than get upset, just reach out directly? Anyone that's worked with me before will vouch for me. I'm not subscribed to this topic and I don't have time to follow it (no offence meant, just swamped), so if anyone needs me, contact me directly. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 I can't speak for the other guys on the Roundtable, but personally I would love to see this project funded. More importantly, actions speak louder than words: The news section of my site has covered the project multiple times and each post gets talked about in the weekly podcast which gets thousands of views/listens per week. Maybe rather than get upset, just reach out directly? Anyone that's worked with me before will vouch for me. I'm not subscribed to this topic and I don't have time to follow it (no offence meant, just swamped), so if anyone needs me, contact me directly. I think I've met you at the Festival Retro in Montreal, like 2 years ago if I'm not wrong You guys were gentlements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPR Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Someone please go kick this over $90k! https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1408938247/collectorvision-phoenix-an-fpga-colecovision-conso/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIAD Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 I have to be honest, I never expected this many people to be anti-Kickstarter or anti-online credit card use that it would have impacted the Kickstarter campaign this much, but I do feel like it has. I personally don't agree with it because you most certainly could point to a lot of hacking stories, sure, but you most certainly could point to a lot of fatal traffic accidents also but that doesn't stop me from driving my car. Double whammy here! Pixelboy doesn't own a credit card and doesn't own a car. I think he might be on to something here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Double whammy here! Pixelboy doesn't own a credit card and doesn't own a car. I think he might be on to something here. But I still managed to place a pledge on KS, indirectly. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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