Why do people actively hate "pre-NES" consoles?

[AtariLeaf]

Someone didnt read their Nintendo Powers.. or any of the other magazines that published that standard trick

 

CC50B4CD-C168-4329-9C55-5B644D3A8E85.jpeg

 

Nope, at the time I was living in a small Ontario town and never saw one. Didn't even hear of Nintendo Power till about the time Simons Quest came out and I needed to figure out how to get past that stupid cliff. And I'd heard of the Contra code too but never the SMB one. Must have been an early issue? I wasn't playing SMB anyway so I guess I never bothered to read about it. I'd moved onto games like Contra, Lifeforce, Double Dragon and Blades of Steel.

[enoofu]

I laugh at all the Hate, most Haters just haven't played the systems as just about every console has 10 to 20 must have games, with a similar amount of hidden gems followed by a Hundred + of shovel-ware.

[John Stamos Mullet]

 

Often bad programming is to blame when the 7800 or SMS ports are far superior. For example, Ikari Warriors was ported to the NES by legendarily awful developer Micronics. It could have been so much better. But I'd take Jackal on the NES over any port of Ikari Warriors.

 

Some prefer SMS Double Dragon because it has two player co-op. Double Dragon 2 on the NES has co-op which shows that it could have been implemented with better programming.

absolutely true. My point being, for a system that had so much upside, there was a LOT of bad programming on the NES. It definitely had the ability, especially with games that used custom mappers. But there are a lot of bad versions of games on the NES.

[Austin]

absolutely true. My point being, for a system that had so much upside, there was a LOT of bad programming on the NES. It definitely had the ability, especially with games that used custom mappers. But there are a lot of bad versions of games on the NES.

Earth to Stamos: There are a lot of bad versions of games on every popular platform.

[Great Hierophant]

The NES had some very good arcade ports, and some "ports" that are actually superior to their arcade versions.

 

Galaga is an excellent port, Galaxian, Pac-Man & Ms. Pac-Man are servicable. The unlicensed Ms. Pac-Man is even better.

 

Rush 'n Attack is OK but Contra, Super C, Jackal and Life Force all stand on their own. TMNT Arcade is the best port of that game from the era.

 

Double Dragon, despite its bugs and weirdness, is the best port of the arcade from that time period. The SMS looks better but gets lousy when you try to hit an enemy, which is the most important part of that game, and Double Dragon 2 stands on its own.

 

Trojan and Gun.Smoke are good ports, Legendary Wings is better and even Ghosts "n Goblins is passable.

 

Donkey Kong, Jr., 3, Mario Bros., Popeye, all strong ports of arcade classics from Nintendo.

[boxpressed]

I would like the I hate pre-NES crowd better if their main argument were that the NES had better arcade ports than the Atari.

[mr_me]

Someone didnt read their Nintendo Powers.. or any of the other magazines that published that standard trick

 

CC50B4CD-C168-4329-9C55-5B644D3A8E85.jpeg

So the instructions that came with the game are incomplete, you had to pay extra for this information.

 

There are still some fun experiences to be had pre NES, but those games just cannot compete with the best NES has to offer. The NES offered a level of immersion in games that wasn't seen before. Then you add the much improved controller pad that was a night and day improvement over anything else that came before. There is a reason why the Classic NES Mini sold so well, because after all these years NES games still hold up. The graphics while dated by modern standards still look nice in a retro way. The characters are definable unlike say Atari 2600 where everything is a blocky mess. Then there is music in NES games. SMB and Zelda's main theme are probably the most recognizable video game music of all time. You don't really get that pre NES.

 

There were so many new gameplay mechanics found in the NES that totally changed the way people thought about games. It came to a point where Nintendo became synonymous with "Video Game". How many times have you heard people generically refer to anything video game related as a "Nintendo". Its easy to understand why its hard for a lot of people to enjoy most pre NES games when you consider how much ahead the NES was in comparison.

I really dislike the music in a lot of these games. I like the silence and the sound effects in video games. Background music does work in some cases but most of the time it takes away from other effects. I think music is overused in a lot of nes games. It's not necessarily nintendo's fault, there were lots of other developers making nes games.

 

There were many videogame systems between the 1977 Atari 2600 and the nes, including the 1982 commodore 64, with lots of different types of games going into 1985. As rom/ram prices continuously dropped everyone benefitted with the ability to create more complex games.

 

I was happy to see the nintendo controllers when the nes first came out. Having the intellivision I really disliked handheld joysticks, and was happy to see another thumbpad controller.

Edited October 15, 2018 by mr_me

[enoofu]

Believe the issue is that a lot of the haters didn't play Arcade games of this era

[Flojomojo]

So the instructions that came with the game are incomplete, you had to pay extra for this information.

No, the instructions explicitly say, "There are plenty of other tricks -- see if you can discover them on your own."

 

You could call up the Nintendo Hotline and ask them, browse the magazine in a store, or ask a friend.

[John Stamos Mullet]

Earth to Stamos: There are a lot of bad versions of games on every popular platform.

yes. But no one speaks of those other systems as highly as they do the NES. Many people act as if it is a flawless system, where as my opinion is that it is the weakest of its generation, and is only popular because it was forced down everyone's throat. Popularity and quality aren't always synonymous. But lots of people speak more highly of the NES than it really deserves, because of nostalgia, lack of exposure to its contemporaries, or just plain bandwagon jumping.

[NE146]

So the instructions that came with the game are incomplete, you had to pay extra for this information.

 

Ehhh.. I guess. How do you think people learned the Konami code for Contra & Life Force in the 80's? That wasn't in any manual.. a lot of the video game "secrets" were in most any magazine. That was a huge part of the scene back in the day, and let's face it, it was fun.

 

 

Re: the time.. eventually a magazine called "Tips & Tricks" came out. Remember that? They had archives of 'secrets' in the magazine every friggin month and I'd bet even the SMB continue was still in it.

Edited October 15, 2018 by NE146

[Pixelboy]

Many people act as if it is a flawless system, where as my opinion is that it is the weakest of its generation, and is only popular because it was forced down everyone's throat.

Oh please... No one forced Mega Man, Contra, Castlevania, Super Mario, Blaster Master, Bionic Commando, Final Fantasy, etc. etc. etc. down my throat.

 

 

Popularity and quality aren't always synonymous. But lots of people speak more highly of the NES than it really deserves, because of nostalgia, lack of exposure to its contemporaries, or just plain bandwagon jumping.

Just face it, buddy: You couldn't recognize a good NES game if it bit you in the @$$.

[HoshiChiri]

I feel like there is an accessibility issue with pre-NES systems. Most (not all) of the post-NES systems use video hookups still fairly common in typical modern TVs and electronic sections. The games aren't overly cryptic, so you can put it in blind & figure out what you're supposed to be doing.

 

This really isn't the case for pre-NES. Sure, it's easy enough to get a coaxial adapter for an f-plug connection online, but it's not available in stores. As for the games- the limited nature of the era means a manual is necessary for many titles... and a kid buying this systems today isn't likely to have access to the manuals or the hookup workarounds. This is assuming said kid can even find the systems at all- I live in a paradise of local retro shops, but only a handful actively deal in pre-NES... and those rarely have things other than 2600s around.

 

So, both the 30-somethings buying games for video content & the kids watching said videos will have to hunt down a working machine, and the parts to hook it up, and some games, and the directions to said games to even begin to play. Is it so surprising to think they'd push a hard pass agenda to justify not putting in the work? If devices that played this systems were as common as the multitude of clones out there now, I think Atari might have a better repuation.

 

Actually, you know what could really help Pre-nes? Mobile releases. Short bursts of arcade style gaming, with minimal inputs to run? Sounds like a good way to kill time at a bus stop. Turning the old games into something that slots better into modern life could let more people try & appreciate them.

[atarilovesyou]

People don't hate them. That silly fool needs ways to get clicks and that's his approach. That said, it's just the titles. His viewpoints aren't as closeminded as the titles read.

 

In short...fake news.

[atarilovesyou]

yes. But no one speaks of those other systems as highly as they do the NES. Many people act as if it is a flawless system, where as my opinion is that it is the weakest of its generation, and is only popular because it was forced down everyone's throat. Popularity and quality aren't always synonymous. But lots of people speak more highly of the NES than it really deserves, because of nostalgia, lack of exposure to its contemporaries, or just plain bandwagon jumping.

Dude, it's posts like these that make you really sound like you have zero idea of what you are talking about. Which is unfortunate, because there's lots of times where you DO know what you're talking about. Your opinion on this sounds based on revisionist Sega lover-Nintendo hater fanboyism. I think you're better than that. And much better that your post. Nut as they say, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just a shame that yours is so obviously wrong his time. What contemporaries do you speak of? Surely not the Master System, and let's be clear: that was the only system you can claim was a contemporary of the NES. And the NES games blow the ever-living shit out of that system all day and night. We could go toe to toe, game for game, but who wants to waste time doing that. It's frankly so boring I want to scream. What you are possibly correct on is that plenty of new hipsters DO exhibit those three things (other than nostalgia) because they believe all the shit they read on the internet...and believe it. The NES deserves all accolades, period. Show me which system from its time and engineering equal that is better and I'll shut up, but I have had this waste of time argument enough to know there are none. Just Nintendo haters.

[Tanooki]

The NES had some very good arcade ports, and some "ports" that are actually superior to their arcade versions.

 

Galaga is an excellent port, Galaxian, Pac-Man & Ms. Pac-Man are servicable. The unlicensed Ms. Pac-Man is even better.

 

Rush 'n Attack is OK but Contra, Super C, Jackal and Life Force all stand on their own. TMNT Arcade is the best port of that game from the era.

 

Double Dragon, despite its bugs and weirdness, is the best port of the arcade from that time period. The SMS looks better but gets lousy when you try to hit an enemy, which is the most important part of that game, and Double Dragon 2 stands on its own.

 

Trojan and Gun.Smoke are good ports, Legendary Wings is better and even Ghosts "n Goblins is passable.

 

Donkey Kong, Jr., 3, Mario Bros., Popeye, all strong ports of arcade classics from Nintendo.

I know it's kind of a mean reach, but don't forget Mighty Final Fight, it copies it pretty accurately compared so the SNES release which is kind of sad. Also what's the deal with you breaking up the Namco licensed vs unlicensed Ms Pac Man? Did Namco remove the added modes/features Tengen put in? I wouldn't know I just have the black cart. And while not mentioned in your post, there's more Capcom games too like Commando, 1942, 1943 that should get the nod. Konami did for the time well enough with Gradius and even Turtles 2 compared to arcade given what the hardware could handle. Defender, Joust, and Millipede, along with Xevious from Namco too were nice.

[Keatah]

I don't think I truly hate any one system. Disklike a system's style? Sure. Dislike an advertising campaign that over promises and under delivers? Yes that can turn me off of a system.

 

But. C'mon! They're videogames!

[youxia]

There are still some fun experiences to be had pre NES, but those games just cannot compete with the best NES has to offer. The NES offered a level of immersion in games that wasn't seen before. Then you add the much improved controller pad that was a night and day improvement over anything else that came before. o". Its easy to understand why its hard for a lot of people to enjoy most pre NES games when you consider how much ahead the NES was in comparison.

 

There are still some fun experiences to be had pre 2600, but those games just cannot compete with the best 2600 has to offer. The 2600 offered a level of immersion in games that wasn't seen before. Then you add the much improved controller pad that was a night and day improvement over anything else that came before. Its easy to understand why its hard for a lot of people to enjoy most pre 2600 games when you consider how much ahead the 2600 was in comparison.

...............

There are still some fun experiences to be had pre PSX/PC/PS 4/etc, but those games just cannot compete with the best PSX/PC/PS 4/etc has to offer. The PSX/PC/PS 4/etc offered a level of immersion in games that wasn't seen before. Then you add the much improved controller pad/kbm that was a night and day improvement over anything else that came before. Its easy to understand why its hard for a lot of people to enjoy most pre PSX/PC/PS 4/etc games when you consider how much ahead the PSX/PC/PS 4/etc was in comparison.

...............

 

Gotta love those topics, eh :/

 

For me, a good game(play) stands the test of time no matter what hardware or era it was released on. I had more/as much fun playing some of these "primitive" Atari games in HSCs this year than with many more recent ones.

[The Usotsuki]

Namco's Ms. Pac-Man was a bare-bones port, nothing like the Tengen version which was obviously the ancestor of the Genesis (by Tengen) and SNES (by Williams) versions.

[John Stamos Mullet]

Dude, it's posts like these that make you really sound like you have zero idea of what you are talking about. Which is unfortunate, because there's lots of times where you DO know what you're talking about. Your opinion on this sounds based on revisionist Sega lover-Nintendo hater fanboyism. I think you're better than that. And much better that your post. Nut as they say, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just a shame that yours is so obviously wrong his time. What contemporaries do you speak of? Surely not the Master System, and let's be clear: that was the only system you can claim was a contemporary of the NES. And the NES games blow the ever-living shit out of that system all day and night. We could go toe to toe, game for game, but who wants to waste time doing that. It's frankly so boring I want to scream. What you are possibly correct on is that plenty of new hipsters DO exhibit those three things (other than nostalgia) because they believe all the shit they read on the internet...and believe it. The NES deserves all accolades, period. Show me which system from its time and engineering equal that is better and I'll shut up, but I have had this waste of time argument enough to know there are none. Just Nintendo haters.

It's all about personal experience. I'm not going to argue bits and bytes, or mappers vs. CPUs or any of that stuff, because you're right - it's a waste of time.

 

I was a kid of the 2600 era. It was my first system. Loved it for many years, but when Arcade games got better and better, it got boring. Always wanted a 5200 or a CV but couldn't afford one, and in those days kids didn't get more than one game system unless they were rich - and I wasn't. So it wasn't until I had my first jobs as a young teen that I could afford another system. The NES era came along and most of my friends got one, so I had plenty of exposure to the NES. I was about 14-15 at this point, so I was old enough to recognize what I didn't like about gaming. I didn't like the lineup of games. I didn't like the way they looked. To me, the graphics weren't this giant leap forward everyone lauds them with. I didn't like the color palette. Lots of browns and dark greens and fuscias. Looked like someone made the games with vomit pixels. I REALLY didn't like all the flicker, and also didn't like the fact that they all seemed to konk out and require blowing on them after every use. I had never experienced that kind of malfunctioning with the 2600, or even the 7800 I bought with paper route money. Not once. Not even to this day.

 

Then I got an SMS, and loved it. I liked the lineup of games, because it had all the Sega arcade games that were the dominant arcade games of that era. The graphics were noticeably better on most/all games it shared with the NES. It had a trackball! Then it had those awesome LCD shutter 3D glasses & games. I always laughed my ass off when Nintendo tried to do the same and made that shit version of Rad Racer that came with the stupid Red/Blue paper glasses and it didn't really even work for the 3D effect. Then the NES had that dumb robot toy thing, and a few kids I knew got one, and it SUCKED, and broke really easy.

 

That was the thing that always stood out to me about the NES - it was cheap. cheaply made. It looked stupid. it broke too easily. the graphics weren't as good as the SMS. (and in some cases not even as good as the 7800)

It was the first era of gaming in my personal experience where you could tell they were cutting every corner they could to squeeze out profit - whereas the SMS in my opinion was all quality - even if the game library was much, much smaller. But the NES was the most popular system of it's day because the marketing was overwhelming. They were everywhere.

 

Everyone has a different personal experience. This was mine. I realize it's not the consensus opinion. I'm not part of the NES-borg. But I assure you, it's not trolling. It's just what saw and felt and did. Not everyone likes the NES, just like not everyone likes Coca-Cola, or McDonalds, or Disney, or other generic mass-marketed "everybody loves this" stuff.

Edited October 15, 2018 by John Stamos Mullet

[SegaSnatcher]

 

There are still some fun experiences to be had pre 2600, but those games just cannot compete with the best 2600 has to offer. The 2600 offered a level of immersion in games that wasn't seen before. Then you add the much improved controller pad that was a night and day improvement over anything else that came before. Its easy to understand why its hard for a lot of people to enjoy most pre 2600 games when you consider how much ahead the 2600 was in comparison.

...............

There are still some fun experiences to be had pre PSX/PC/PS 4/etc, but those games just cannot compete with the best PSX/PC/PS 4/etc has to offer. The PSX/PC/PS 4/etc offered a level of immersion in games that wasn't seen before. Then you add the much improved controller pad/kbm that was a night and day improvement over anything else that came before. Its easy to understand why its hard for a lot of people to enjoy most pre PSX/PC/PS 4/etc games when you consider how much ahead the PSX/PC/PS 4/etc was in comparison.

...............

 

Gotta love those topics, eh :/

 

For me, a good game(play) stands the test of time no matter what hardware or era it was released on. I had more/as much fun playing some of these "primitive" Atari games in HSCs this year than with many more recent ones.

But the 2600 objectively has not aged as well as NES. Its not even close. Your post is the very definition of moving goal posts.

 

The TC specifically said "Pre-NES" and I feel I gave a good answer to his question.

Edited October 15, 2018 by SegaSnatcher

[mbd30]

It's all about personal experience. I'm not going to argue bits and bytes, or mappers vs. CPUs or any of that stuff, because you're right - it's a waste of time.

 

I was a kid of the 2600 era. It was my first system. Loved it for many years, but when Arcade games got better and better, it got boring. Always wanted a 5200 or a CV but couldn't afford one, and in those days kids didn't get more than one game system unless they were rich - and I wasn't. So it wasn't until I had my first jobs as a young teen that I could afford another system. The NES era came along and most of my friends got one, so I had plenty of exposure to the NES. I was about 14-15 at this point, so I was old enough to recognize what I didn't like about gaming. I didn't like the lineup of games. I didn't like the way they looked. To me, the graphics weren't this giant leap forward everyone lauds them with. I didn't like the color palette. Lots of browns and dark greens and fuscias. Looked like someone made the games with vomit pixels. I REALLY didn't like all the flicker, and also didn't like the fact that they all seemed to konk out and require blowing on them after every use. I had never experienced that kind of malfunctioning with the 2600, or even the 7800 I bought with paper route money. Not once. Not even to this day.

 

Then I got an SMS, and loved it. I liked the lineup of games, because it had all the Sega arcade games that were the dominant arcade games of that era. The graphics were noticeably better on most/all games it shared with the NES. It had a trackball! Then it had those awesome LCD shutter 3D glasses & games. I always laughed my ass off when Nintendo tried to do the same and made that shit version of Rad Racer that came with the stupid Red/Blue paper glasses and it didn't really even work for the 3D effect. Then the NES had that dumb robot toy thing, and a few kids I knew got one, and it SUCKED, and broke really easy.

 

That was the thing that always stood out to me about the NES - it was cheap. cheaply made. It looked stupid. it broke too easily. the graphics weren't as good as the SMS. (and in some cases not even as good as the 7800)

It was the first era of gaming in my personal experience where you could tell they were cutting every corner they could to squeeze out profit - whereas the SMS in my opinion was all quality - even if the game library was much, much smaller. But the NES was the most popular system of it's day because the marketing was overwhelming. They were everywhere.

 

Everyone has a different personal experience. This was mine. I realize it's not the consensus opinion. I'm not part of the NES-borg. But I assure you, it's not trolling. It's just what saw and felt and did. Not everyone likes the NES, just like not everyone likes Coca-Cola, or McDonalds, or Disney, or other generic mass-marketed "everybody loves this" stuff.

 

Your experience is the complete opposite of mine.

 

The Atari 2600 was my first console as a kid in the early 80s. Then later we got a 7800 because it was backwards compatible with the 2600. But what I really wanted was a NES. Eventually we did get a NES. Games like Super Mario Bros., Contra, Mike Tyson's Punch-Out, Castlevania, Ninja Gaiden, Marble Madness, etc. were a huge leap for me compared to what I was playing before. It was like night and day. Going from the 2600 and even the 7800 to the NES, I was hardly put off by the color palette and flicker, nor was anybody else that I knew. The games seemed glorious compared to what I had been playing. Maybe I was lucky in terms of reliability but I usually didn't have any trouble getting any game to work. Sometimes I had to do the trick where I pushed in the cart and wiggled it around a bit.

Edited October 15, 2018 by mbd30

[NE146]

It's all about personal experience. I'm not going to argue bits and bytes, or mappers vs. CPUs or any of that stuff, because you're right - it's a waste of time.

 

....

That was the thing that always stood out to me about the NES - it was cheap. cheaply made. It looked stupid. it broke too easily. the graphics weren't as good as the SMS. (and in some cases not even as good as the 7800)

It was the first era of gaming in my personal experience where you could tell they were cutting every corner they could to squeeze out profit - whereas the SMS in my opinion was all quality - even if the game library was much, much smaller. But the NES was the most popular system of it's day because the marketing was overwhelming. They were everywhere.

 

Everyone has a different personal experience. This was mine. I realize it's not the consensus opinion. I'm not part of the NES-borg. But I assure you, it's not trolling. It's just what saw and felt and did. Not everyone likes the NES, just like not everyone likes Coca-Cola, or McDonalds, or Disney, or other generic mass-marketed "everybody loves this" stuff.

 

In 1987 I was 18 years old college-bound and had both a SMS and a NES (not counting my old famiclone). There was ZERO BIAS for either because I wanted games for both consoles equally. I held one in my left hand and the other in my right hand and you better believe if there was a good game for either, I was getting it!

 

Even in 1987, it was pretty well known in the press and among vid-heads that the SMS had the superior hardware, but suffered from software support. That wasn't a secret at all. Phantasy Star was definitely far and above anything I had experienced on the NES... but honestly, that was pretty much it. When the NES had third parties pumping out games like the amazing Megaman 2, and Blaster Master, there simply wasn't anything on the SMS that could really compare. Double Dragon kind of sealed that idea for me too. I had the NES version first, but always looked forward to the SMS giving me the true arcade experience with two-players. I got it as soon as it was released and was immediately disappointed at how floaty it felt. The NES version, while "technically" inferior was still the more fun gameplay experience.

 

I love the SMS, but in my subjective but "objective" (as someone who owned both) consumer viewpoint, if you were forced to choose one, I would recommend the NES.

[John Stamos Mullet]

Even in 1987, it was pretty well known in the press and among vid-heads that the SMS had the superior hardware, but suffered from software support. That wasn't a secret at all. Phantasy Star was definitely far and above anything I had experienced on the NES... but honestly, that was pretty much it. When the NES had third parties pumping out games like the amazing Megaman 2, and Blaster Master, there simply wasn't anything on the SMS that could really compare.

 

 

There's a whole other discussion in here about what "could have been". I didn't want to harp on this point - but you can't really brag about how great the NES 3rd party software was vs. the SMS or 7800, since really - Nintendo basically had to break the law to force those 3rd party companies into slavery for them, or risk being put out of business.

 

but man, I would love to see what some of those developers could have done on the SMS or even the 7800.

[SegaSnatcher]

This generation of kids couldn't operate a screwdriver without first watching a how to video on YouTube. No fucks given on what they think about my console collecting.

Don't blame the kids dude, its the crappy Fathers who are MIA.