MegaManFan Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 "gut-wrentching" = "I don't think a meat-packing sim was a good idea for a game." Oddly enough I think that might make a great game, even though it could potentially offend the hell out of a lot of people (depending on whether you made it graphic or not). It appeals to my perverse nature in that people love to eat, but they don't love to think about the way what they're eating got to their plate. Many (not all) people probably wouldn't eat a hamburger if they had to butcher a cow themselves. Anyway this is all getting off-topic... "nauseating" = "Sniderman's trying to be funny again." I think this thread needs a little levity. You know what's nauseating? Reading four pages of people trying to cut each other's throats over one homebrew CV cart. This hobby doesn't need that crap. That crap is more crap than all the crap that's ever been released for every console ever made, so I wish everybody would cut the crap out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moycon Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 Holy CRAP MMF!!! Yer CRAPPIN right!!! I'm going to go processs some virtual meat by-products!! Woo00000Tt!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 Now that's what I'm talking about! So cut the crap already Moycon, and come over here and have a crappy beer with me. After all it's my birthday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooterb23 Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 I had a great post written, then our power went out... crap Anyway, I always felt that these type in games were the best games ever, because even though someone else did the dirty work...there was a sense of accomplishment in having the program work afterwards. Regardless of how bad the game was (and I typed in some stinkers...) I was always so proud when it worked. The fact that Dan wants to share 14 of these moments with us makes me want it even more. Moycon actually helped me rediscover my love of these last year with an envelope full of programs (which I'm still working on ) for the Commodore 64. I hope work will continue on volume 2... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 This hobby doesn't need that crap. That crap is more crap than all the crap that's ever been released for every console ever made, so I wish everybody would cut the crap out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moycon Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 No prob Scooterb23, I knew if I kept those old C64 mags around they have some use....and I agree with you. Sometimes you dont need outrageous graphics to make a fun game. The PS2 has some sweet graphic capabilities...That didnt stop folk from purchasing Activision Anthologies. @MMF : DuuuNuuuNuuuNuuuNuuNu You say it's yer birthday. DuuuNuuuNuuuNuuuNuuNu it's my birthday too yeaaah!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 Actually, I sent MayhemUK two disks with all my old Commodore type-ins from Ahoy! and Compute's Gazette so he could send me back the .d64 images. With luck, there MIGHT even be one or two original BASIC games I did (but I haven't found them yet, I just remember making them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moycon Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 We're getting off topic here, But I still have some old text games (complete with graphics and sound) that I made for the C64 back in the day on floppy. Its always fun to go back and revist those simple but meaningful games from days gone by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 One of my creations was fairly decently complex. It was all character set based, but it was what you would call "Robotron inspired" where everything on the screen was out to get you. Since I sucked at making sound, I programmed the voice card (homemade with Radio Shack parts from an article in Ahoy!) to give you messages during the game, like say "player one ready" at the start and "game over" when you were done. To be honest with you, I can't even begin to fathom how I made something like that when I was just a kid. Back in those days though I could keep the variables in my head, I shamelessly used "if then" loops to detect keypress, and I wasn't afraid to gosub the routines I needed to control the characters on screen. My only problem was sometimes I'd have to move the code up a few hundred just to make room for another subroutine. List 10-500.. crap I'm up to 490, no room for another line.. gotta push this up to 1000. Damn, how did I ever do it? These days I couldn't program my way out of a paper bag in ANY language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooterb23 Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 Well, since we've hijacked the thread (thank goodness)... let me ask MMF...do you still have those issues of Ahoy! ?? I'm looking for a couple of games that I always wanted to type in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Slocum Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 We're getting off topic here, But I still have some old text games (complete with graphics and sound) that I made for the C64 back in the day on floppy. Its always fun to go back and revist those simple but meaningful games from days gone by. I built one of those 1541 -> PC parellel port cables so I could back up my first programs to my PC. Those disks aren't going to last forever. And the cables are surprisingly easy to build. I have some pretty funny programs I wrote when I first learned to program the C64. My favorite is this one that prints "GHOSTBUSTERS" in all different colors while playing this pathetic out-of-tune single note version of the Ghostbusters theme, and then asks you "WHO YOU GUNNA CALL?" and you have to type "GHOSTBUSTERS". Hahaha. I was really young, so I don't feel like too much of a fool. -Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 Well, since we've hijacked the thread (thank goodness) Why? Do you really think this is the appropriate way to hande the situation. Let's make a joke and forget about the problem? I have explained my motivation quite lengthy and almost nobody reacted to that in any way. The problem is IMO there and making jokes doesn't let it disappear. Even if you do not understand my intentions, that doesn't make them invalid. I know we all want to be friends, but sometimes friends need to have a dispute. And doing that in public when it is about a general problem is the right place. Trying to suppress that is no good idea :!: If a controversial discussion isn't possible on AA and those threads are always hijacked by people like you (and you and you...), something is wrong in this community. I somehow could understand that behaviour when discussing about OT things, but this time its about our hobby! This time this is the absolute right and only place! These kind of IMO silly reactions make me even more mad than any so called "Crap-Collection" ever could. And now you can flame me, or if you prefer that, continue your "funny" behaviour. You know what I would prefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moycon Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 Its always fun to go back and revist those simple but meaningful games from days gone by. Hey kinda like what ColecoVision Gamepack #1 is offering. I dunno Thomas, I think you just like to argue. Some people like games like this, you don't...Who are you??? We joke and move on because there's nothing more to discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 Hey kinda like what ColecoVision Gamepack #1 is offering. Ok, that was the answer to my 1st question. I dunno Thomas, I think you just like to argue. No, I would rather prefer to play a game or continue programming. But I think this discussion is necessary. Some people like games like this, you don't...Who are you??? We joke and move on because there's nothing more to discuss. And how about my two other questions: - How should we be allowed to critisize? How positive or negative can we be when critizising? Do we have to follow some rules I am probably not aware of (like PC)? - Do you think good or bad products have any influence on our hobby? Which? And how important? Do you really think they are invalid? I have only heard from you that you don't like how I (and Manuel) handled the current situation. Ok, I understand your there. But I am missing some suggestions ("constructive critique") how to handle it better (except ignoring it which I won't!). Similar situations will most likely arise in the future and therefore I really would like to know an answer to my questions. Else we will have to go though this trouble unnecessarrily again and again. Or at least some reply why you think those questions are not worth being answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moycon Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 Ohhh I see: - How should we be allowed to critisize? Words like CRAP or SHIT or WORTHLESS or WASTE should be avoided at all times. They are considered insulting. What would be your initial reaction to someone saying "Thrust Plus should be called Piece of shit Plus"....as opposed to something like. "Thrust Plus reminds me too much of Gravitar and is frustrating for me in my opinion. Really Thomas, A few posts in and someone called this game CRAP. I can say that is one way NOT to review or critisize a game. In fact what kind of review is that at all? It's not. Thats what upset people. So I say review a game however you want, but maybe get the point across without insults??? Unless maybe you run a site where that's all you do is insult things (I've seen sites like that) but as far as I know AA isnt one of them. -Do you think good or bad products have any influence on our hobby? Which? And how important? You know my answer to this. If you release a bad game, people will express their opinion, hopefully using more tact than "Its shit" and people wont buy it, and the next time the person releases a game they'll think twice about the purchase from that person. People know the difference between a game you release and one someone else does. I really dont see why your worried about someone else releasing a game not up to your standards. As far as your vision of people buying games and not playing them and having "empty museums"...Thats your vision. I play my games, I think you'll find most people do. Thats what we do here. And I'll bet most people who purchase these games are members of this or some other video game forum...so just start a thread asking if people play their games. Prior to the new millenium, Alot of people had visions of the world after Y2K hit, remember that?? I compare your vision to this. Unfounded. I do see your point about people just buying a game because it's in a pretty package... But so what if someone does??? I have a huge collection of action figures Ive never opened. Some toy manufacturer could make the same arguement you're trying to make.... But you know what. I like it. I like to display my collection. Thats all that matters to me. That toy manufacture can kiss my ass, and I believe toys in general will still be around long after I'm dead and buried regardless if I remove mine from the package or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 Well, since we've hijacked the thread (thank goodness)... let me ask MMF...do you still have those issues of Ahoy! ?? I'm looking for a couple of games that I always wanted to type in... I have every issue going back to #9 or #10 (as a kid I backordered the ones I didn't have) and I hate to say it but I'm not planning to part with any of them. Then, as now, it was my favorite and most treasured Commodore magazine. I subscribed until they didn't make it any more, on which day I sadly concluded that Commodore was now dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moycon Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 Maybe you could do what I did MMF and just photocopy the program pages for Scooterb23 ??? That way he can have the games without you giving up the mags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 Maybe you could do what I did MMF and just photocopy the program pages for Scooterb23 ??? That way he can have the games without you giving up the mags. I'll tell ya what then; they're all sitting in a box at my parent's house right now because I have no room in this apartment but when we get our house this fall I'll bring them all back to Omaha at which point I'd be happy to photocopy any programs anybody wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy_Dude Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 - How should we be allowed to critisize? Words like CRAP or SHIT or WORTHLESS or WASTE should be avoided at all times. They are considered insulting. What would be your initial reaction to someone saying "Thrust Plus should be called Piece of shit Plus"....as opposed to something like. "Thrust Plus reminds me too much of Gravitar and is frustrating for me in my opinion. I think you could call something crap without being insulting, as long as you justify your opinion (Eg: E.T is CRAP because those god damned pits are a pain ) btw : I'v never played or even seen a coleco before so I have no opinion on this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moycon Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 *craps on Happy_Dude* Oh yeah, now I can call Happy_Dude crap for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 Words like CRAP or SHIT or WORTHLESS or WASTE should be avoided at all times. They are considered insulting. Ok, I got a large negative word list now. How about a positive list? Is "very bad" ok, or "terrible", "substandard"? What would be your initial reaction to someone saying "Thrust Plus should be called Piece of shit Plus"....as opposed to something like. "Thrust Plus reminds me too much of Gravitar and is frustrating for me in my opinion. If you call it a "Piece of shit Plus" and explain why (as you just did?), I can and have to accept that. Because that's your honest opinion and you have very good reasons for that. Really Thomas, A few posts in and someone called this game CRAP. I can say that is one way NOT to review or critisize a game. In fact what kind of review is that at all? It's not. Thats what upset people. So I say review a game however you want, but maybe get the point across without insults??? I 100% agree here. I think the only difference between you and me is/was, that I thought that you can call things "crap" if you can explain why. Manuel made a "funny" comment and added the reasons for his negative critique a few posts later. This made people very upset and then nobody cared for his (or my) later explainations. IMO he should have explained that exactly within the very same post and that's the only real mistake he made. But ok, if the consense on this board is, that you shouldn't use such words as "crap" at all, not even for very good and explained reasons, then I will try to follow that rule. Just give me the right words. Unless maybe you run a site where that's all you do is insult things (I've seen sites like that) but as far as I know AA isnt one of them. Nah, I don't like those sides. They are boring because there is no balance at all. And therefore I sure don't want to make AA like that. And I don't want it to be the opposite thing. You know my answer to this. If you release a bad game, people will express their opinion, hopefully using more tact than "Its shit" and people wont buy it, and the next time the person releases a game they'll think twice about the purchase from that person. Ok, I don't know any past examples in classic gaming for your theory (do you?), but I'll watch future releases and try to verify our different theories about the "market". As far as your vision of people buying games and not playing them and having "empty museums"...Thats your vision. I play my games, I think you'll find most people do. Thats what we do here. And I'll bet most people who purchase these games are members of this or some other video game forum...so just start a thread asking if people play their games. That's probably a good idea. Now I must make the question very exactly to get the answeres I am looking for. I do see your point about people just buying a game because it's in a pretty package... But so what if someone does??? I have a huge collection of action figures Ive never opened. Some toy manufacturer could make the same arguement you're trying to make.... But you know what. I like it. I like to display my collection. Thats all that matters to me. That toy manufacture can kiss my ass, and I believe toys in general will still be around long after I'm dead and buried regardless if I remove mine from the package or not. But here is exactly my point! You are collecting those toys. AFAIK classic games where never ment to be collected only, they where ment to be played. So while you will prevent the physical material 100%, the fun that was there when playing with them, the fantasy, the stories you created, the whole spirit (as I call it) will disapear. And all that is left is dead material in mint condition. So unless there aren't some people who open the box and take the figures/carts to play with them or to give them to the next generation for playing, our hobby will degenerate. Don't get me wrong, collecting is 100% necessary, and you can do whatever you want with your collection. All I am asking for is to mind that there is more that makes our hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Monkey Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 Don't get me wrong, collecting is 100% necessary, and you can do whatever you want with your collection. All I am asking for is to mind that there is more that makes our hobby. There is more. Part of the hobby is "nostalgia". Many of the people who are in the hobby are pining for the days of their youth. That is why there is a market for a product like Daniel's... even if it would only be considered a novelty. Daniel's collection may not advance the homebrew scene as you define it, but it definitely does add to the classic gaming hobby, by giving the members of the hobby who would be interested in a collection of "type-in" games a chance to see them again. Take another look at your own definition of the hobby... ie. Why do you do what you do in this hobby? Most likely it is because you enjoy what you are doing. Correct? A little over a year ago, I was getting pissed off at the amount of useless hacks which were surfacing (of which there has recently been another round). I even went so far as to comment on it in a thread here on AA, and managed to contribute to another member feeling alienated because of his enthusiasm for hacks. I feel bad about it now.. and here is why: He was just enjoying himself. I have realized that there is no need to pre-suppose an ulterior motive, and that doing so will almost always lead to unnecessary friction. Many of the threads in the 2600 forum describe fantasy "games that never were"... There is a reason for that. It is nostalgia. Daniel's collection is a great example of the fulfillment of a "fantasy" game, in this case it just happens to be his own... that is why (according to his post) he programmed it. If Daniel were to rewrite this collection to reflect the standards which XYPE is eager to impose, it wouldn't end up being the collection he wanted to make... Daniel has made no mis-representation of the game and its intention to capture the spirit of the "type-in" games he used to enjoy on his old Commodore machines. Now, GDG should do the same, because this is definitely a "niche" product, and failure to describe it as such would (IMHO) be misleading. Many of us like to share our enjoyment of the hobby in different ways: hacks, labels, mock screenshots, hardware modifications, reproductions, collecting, homebrewing etc... There is room for all of these facets because it is the spirit of the hobby combined with individual personalities/skillsets which compels the activity, not the other way around. What any "one" of us has to share is not going to please "everyone", but that does not define all contributions as "good" or "crap", it doesn't mean that those who do enjoy any particular contribution are any more or less important to the hobby, and it isn't necessarily good or bad for the hobby. It all just "is". There are enough different people with different reasons for being into this hobby that there is plenty of room for different ways of enjoying the hobby. Don't get too stuck on optimization and German engineering. There will always be more people to appreciate the games and enjoy them on their television than on their bookshelf... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 There is more... Now that's (warning: subjective!) IMO a very good reply. I think it showed me some even more different perspective which I can agree with. Thank you! Don't get too stuck on optimization and German engineering. I am what I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Monkey Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 Don't get too stuck on optimization and German engineering. I am what I am. Heh! I realized just how "Canadian" my post was after I hit "submit"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ventrra Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 A little over a year ago, I was getting pissed off at the amount of useless hacks which were surfacing (of which there has recently been another round). I even went so far as to comment on it in a thread here on AA, and managed to contribute to another member feeling alienated because of his enthusiasm for hacks. I feel bad about it now.. and here is why: He was just enjoying himself. I have realized that there is no need to pre-suppose an ulterior motive, and that doing so will almost always lead to unnecessary friction. Many of the threads in the 2600 forum describe fantasy "games that never were"... There is a reason for that. It is nostalgia. Exactly so. Being one of those people to "create" some of those hacks, I've been on the recieving end of some of that criticism. However, I have a tendancy to just shrug it off. I know that I never made any of the hacks to really please anyone else, it was mostly a way of amusing myself and relieving a bit of stress. (Why did I submit them to AtariAge, then, you ask? Well, thee was a page for them and I thought someone else might find them a bit amusing, too.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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