+Larry Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 No, running from desktop from folder or moved to desktop alone, and behaves the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 I'm sure some clever soul will help you out.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Larry said: Something simple, I hope. I wanted to try 3.90 and 4.0, but neither of these will start under Windows 10 X86. I get an error message that "Windows cannot access the specified device, path, or file. You may not have the appropriate permissions to access the item." I'm running it from the desktop, and running as administrator makes no difference. 3.20 works great with this setup. 3.90 also works great under XP-SP3 (on an older desktop). Thanks, Larry I’m guessing it’s something typically-Windows like a Registry issue if you still have older versions of Altirra around. I generally unzip the Altirra download to its own folder on my media drive (D:\Altirra-4.00-test5\ for instance) then just put a program shortcut on my Desktop. Every time Avery puts out an update, I do the same and replace the existing Desktop shortcut with the new one. I do this in Win10x64 and have for 4 years - never had an issue like that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 Altirra had not been downloaded or run on this machine since my clean install of Win 10 in January. I only downloaded 3.20 to see if it would run after 3.90 and 4.0 failed. It is odd, I think. 3.20 goes right to the startup dialogue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 There must be a small issue somewhere, btw, do you use an ini or the registry? We know its not Win 10 (as it stands) and Avery uses a Win 10 box to dev on and others have reported no such problem on 4.00 etc.. Does the Emulator show a crash or is it simply never getting to run?...Sounds like the latter.. Best of luck, its sure to be something silly.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeron Posted July 12, 2020 Author Share Posted July 12, 2020 No idea on this one. Open Task Manager while that dialog is up and see if Altirra.exe is listed in the Details tab -- if not, the message is from Windows itself. If it is from the emulator, then you can try launching with /startuplog on the command line to see how far it's getting before that weird error appears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+gnusto Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 5 hours ago, Larry said: No, running from desktop from folder or moved to desktop alone, and behaves the same. If the error occurs regardless of where Altirra is placed, and you've tried different folders, it's much less likely it's a permissions problem and more likely that Windows or your antivirus software has blocked the file. If you have third party AV software turn it off and try again. If it's just Windows 10, right click the exe, select properties, and in the General tab see if there is an unblock option. Many AV software packages don't trust executables until they have "heard" about them from a number of uses, and their default position is to block. It doesn't mean Altirra has a virus, it means that Antivirus software is pretty terrible and not effective at its task. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 Thanks for the suggestions! The AV asked if it should be blocked, and I checked "Always Allow." I'll try deactivating the AV, but I don't think that would explain why 3.20 runs normally and 3.9/4.0 won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) Different signatures, hence part of the thread being about it picked up as a false positive.. I'll bet it never even gets to run, the trouble is that some AV's won't let you shut them off entirely, mine is one of those (ZoneAlarm) the Vmon is always active but you can disable the real time protection but it still reads its stored exceptions. Edited July 12, 2020 by Mclaneinc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 Well, all is fine (for now). I can't explain it, but this afternoon, 4.0 starts up perfectly with or without the AV shut off. I have no clue, but it works. Thanks again for the suggestions. I did not try rebooting Windows this morning, maybe that's what did it. (?) I did try launching Altirra several times this AM, and immediately got the error message each time. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tane Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 (edited) Suggestions: In the "Memory1" panel every change is painted red, no matters if it's root is automatic or manual (like with command "f"). What if manual changes are painted with a different color (ex.: blue). A scrollbar for the Memory panel, making possible to go up-down with the mouse wheel. A CTRL-F (find) function for the Memory panel. An horizontal Offset for the Memory panel: In the Disassembly panel, if I copy & paste this: I get this: 8045: 18 CLC 8046: B9 A3 00 LDA $00A3,Y 8049: 7D 01 82 ADC $8201,X 804C: 99 A3 00 STA $00A3,Y 804F: B9 B1 00 LDA $00B1,Y 8052: F0 1B BEQ $806F 8054: BE 14 20 LDX $2014,Y 8057: BD 05 82 LDA $8205,X But I'm just interested to paste the code: CLC LDA $00A3,Y ADC $8201,X STA $00A3,Y LDA $00B1,Y $806F LDX $2014,Y LDA $8205,X Edited July 13, 2020 by tane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 On 7/11/2020 at 4:26 AM, phaeron said: Hah, I was completely misled by "Atari tapes with audio". I thought you had rare ad or internal corporate footage or something.... I would try: Media Foundation H.264 + MP3, audio 192kbps, video 5Mbps-ish. Set aspect ratio to use correct aspect ratio, resample sharp bilinear, scale to 1280x720 (16:9), frame rate integral. The video may be a bit on the big side if you do a long recording, but it will probably drop a lot if you edit it in something like the built-in Windows 10 editor. I've done some tests and I think "Scale to 960x720 (4:3)" is better than "Scale to 1280x720 (16:9)". In both cases aspect ratio is OK but with "Scale to 1280x720" youtube shows plenty of black space on the sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Robot Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 (edited) On page 1 it was mentioned that Altirra 4 doesn't work in wine (Crossover), I have wine-dev installed in Catalina and it doesn't work from that either but I do get some console output which might help. » ChoccyBook:Altirra-4.00-test5 >wine64 Altirra64.exe 0009:fixme:uxtheme:BufferedPaintInit Stub () 0009:fixme:win:RegisterTouchWindow (0x1005a 00000000): stub 0009:fixme:win:UnregisterTouchWindow (0x1005a): stub 0009:fixme:win:SetGestureConfig (0x1005a 00000000 1 0x21e770 12): stub 0009:fixme:dinput:get_osx_device_elements Unhandled type 257 0016:fixme:coreaudio:ca_channel_layout_to_channel_mask Unhandled channel 0xffffffff 0016:fixme:coreaudio:ca_channel_layout_to_channel_mask Unhandled channel 0xffffffff 0016:fixme:coreaudio:ca_channel_layout_to_channel_mask Unhandled channel 0xffffffff 0016:fixme:coreaudio:ca_channel_layout_to_channel_mask Unhandled channel 0xffffffff 0009:fixme:win:RegisterTouchWindow (0x100b8 00000000): stub 0009:fixme:win:UnregisterTouchWindow (0x100b8): stub 0009:fixme:win:SetGestureConfig (0x100b8 00000000 1 0x21e5c0 12): stub Assertion failed: sz > 0, file ../../../wine/dlls/dbghelp/stabs.c, line 118 A window appears after the "Unhandled type 257" then immediately goes away again I get a AltirraCrash.mdmp file that is zero bytes. This is Altirra 3.90 Just running, walking the first time setup and exiting again. » ChoccyBook:Altirra-3.90 >wine64 Altirra64.exe 0009:fixme:win:RegisterTouchWindow (0x10056 00000000): stub 0009:fixme:win:UnregisterTouchWindow (0x10056): stub 0009:fixme:win:SetGestureConfig (0x10056 00000000 1 0x21e8c0 12): stub 0009:fixme:dinput:get_osx_device_elements Unhandled type 257 0016:fixme:coreaudio:ca_channel_layout_to_channel_mask Unhandled channel 0xffffffff 0016:fixme:coreaudio:ca_channel_layout_to_channel_mask Unhandled channel 0xffffffff 0016:fixme:coreaudio:ca_channel_layout_to_channel_mask Unhandled channel 0xffffffff 0016:fixme:coreaudio:ca_channel_layout_to_channel_mask Unhandled channel 0xffffffff 0009:fixme:win:RegisterTouchWindow (0x100b2 00000000): stub 0009:fixme:win:UnregisterTouchWindow (0x100b2): stub 0009:fixme:win:SetGestureConfig (0x100b2 00000000 1 0x21e660 12): stub 0019:fixme:ver:GetCurrentPackageId (0x207fd90 0x0): stub 0009:fixme:win:RegisterTouchWindow (0x100c0 00000000): stub 0009:fixme:win:RegisterTouchWindow (0x100c2 00000000): stub 0009:fixme:win:RegisterTouchWindow (0x100b8 00000000): stub 0009:fixme:win:UnregisterTouchWindow (0x100b8): stub 0009:fixme:win:RegisterTouchWindow (0x200c2 00000000): stub 0009:fixme:win:RegisterTouchWindow (0x300c2 00000000): stub 0009:fixme:shell:SHGetStockIconInfo (78, 0x100, 0x21ba80) semi-stub 0009:fixme:shell:SHGetStockIconInfo flags 0x100 not implemented 0009:fixme:shell:SHGetStockIconInfo (79, 0x100, 0x21ba80) semi-stub 0009:fixme:shell:SHGetStockIconInfo flags 0x100 not implemented Edited July 18, 2020 by Mr Robot Added 3.90 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeron Posted July 18, 2020 Author Share Posted July 18, 2020 50 minutes ago, Mr Robot said: On page 1 it was mentioned that Altirra 4 doesn't work in wine (Crossover), I have wine-dev installed in Catalina and it doesn't work from that either but I do get some console output which might help. A window appears after the "Unhandled type 257" then immediately goes away again I get a AltirraCrash.mdmp file that is zero bytes. This is Altirra 3.90 Just running, walking the first time setup and exiting again. Yay.... First, the reason for the broken .mdmp is that last assert line in stabs.c -- that would be an ELF parsing problem in Wine's dbghelp.dll implementation, and since Windows doesn't have any ELF files since it uses PE, that'd be a bug in Wine. Yay. Rest of the log isn't too helpful, unfortunately. The BufferedPaintInit() warning isn't an issue here is annoying, it means that Wine doesn't optimize buffered paints (which have been around since Vista). Some things we can try: Run Altirra with /startuplog:hostdisp /gdi to enable the logs for startup steps and host display, and turn off all accelerated display rendering. We'll see if this narrows it down. Get the wine version, I think it's wine --version or something. Might help trying to match the same version on Linux so I can locally check this. Try earlier versions to -test1 and see if they also fail, could also help narrow down what's causing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Robot Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Wine version 5.7 Here's the output from test5 » ChoccyBook:Altirra-4.00-test5 >wine64 Altirra64.exe /startuplog:hostdisp /gdi [ 0.000] Startup logging enabled. [ 0.000] Initializing OLE. 0009:fixme:uxtheme:BufferedPaintInit Stub () [ 0.005] Loading options [ 0.006] Loading settings [ 0.006] Running instance [ 0.006] Preloading DLLs [ 0.032] Registering controls [ 0.032] Initializing themes [ 0.033] Initializing frame system [ 0.033] Initializing commands and accelerators [ 0.033] Applying options [ 0.033] Initializing filespec system [ 0.033] Initializing UI panes [ 0.044] Initializing logging [ 0.044] Initializing native UI [ 0.044] Creating main window 0009:fixme:win:RegisterTouchWindow (0x1005a 00000000): stub 0009:fixme:win:UnregisterTouchWindow (0x1005a): stub 0009:fixme:win:SetGestureConfig (0x1005a 00000000 1 0x21e770 12): stub [ 0.433] Restoring main window [ 0.504] Initializing WinSock [ 0.504] Initializing simulator [ 0.519] Initializing game controllers 0009:fixme:dinput:get_osx_device_elements Unhandled type 257 [ 0.557] Initializing menus [ 0.662] Initializing debugger [ 0.662] Initializing compatibility system [ 0.662] Initializing display UI [ 0.734] Loading profiles [ 0.734] Loading current profile [ 0.737] Initializing native audio 0016:fixme:coreaudio:ca_channel_layout_to_channel_mask Unhandled channel 0xffffffff 0016:fixme:coreaudio:ca_channel_layout_to_channel_mask Unhandled channel 0xffffffff 0016:fixme:coreaudio:ca_channel_layout_to_channel_mask Unhandled channel 0xffffffff 0016:fixme:coreaudio:ca_channel_layout_to_channel_mask Unhandled channel 0xffffffff [ 0.927] Loading ROMs [ 0.929] Restoring pane layout 0009:fixme:win:RegisterTouchWindow (0x100b8 00000000): stub 0009:fixme:win:UnregisterTouchWindow (0x100b8): stub 0009:fixme:win:SetGestureConfig (0x100b8 00000000 1 0x21e7c0 12): stub Assertion failed: sz > 0, file ../../../wine/dlls/dbghelp/stabs.c, line 118 I ran it for all the previous test versions and I get almost exactly the same output, just the timings and a few hex numbers in the fixme's change, I can post them if you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 General question. Is it possible in the debugger to use the eb command, to alter a location which is in ROM? I can see why this would be prevented, but what I am wanting to do is modify some values in the OS and see what happens, without the hassle of modifying the loaded OS ROM, and having to deal with checksum tests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeron Posted July 19, 2020 Author Share Posted July 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Stephen said: General question. Is it possible in the debugger to use the eb command, to alter a location which is in ROM? I can see why this would be prevented, but what I am wanting to do is modify some values in the OS and see what happens, without the hassle of modifying the loaded OS ROM, and having to deal with checksum tests. Nope. The 'eb' command uses 6502 writes, which won't modify the ROM -- though they can be picked up by other layers such as flash write layers. Altirra doesn't have a generic interface currently to change ROM. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Sorry for so many questions the past few days. Let's say I have a subroutine which I know will be called a fixed number of times. In this case - 240 times. I want to watch 6 bytes of RAM (doesn't exactly matter how much) and get a copy of those values each time the subroutine is called. I set a breakpoint at the JSR, and I know I can do a "db $50 L$10" each time the breakpoint is hit, copy the output from console, etc. But was hoping there is an automated way of doing this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeron Posted July 19, 2020 Author Share Posted July 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, Stephen said: Sorry for so many questions the past few days. Let's say I have a subroutine which I know will be called a fixed number of times. In this case - 240 times. I want to watch 6 bytes of RAM (doesn't exactly matter how much) and get a copy of those values each time the subroutine is called. I set a breakpoint at the JSR, and I know I can do a "db $50 L$10" each time the breakpoint is hit, copy the output from console, etc. But was hoping there is an automated way of doing this? Use a non-blocking breakpoint to trigger the command: bp -n address "db $50 L$10" 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 WOW - thanks for the quick answer and HOLY HELL BATMAN - I have so much to learn about this emulator! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Some emulators are comprehensive enough today to be considered another form of the original hardware. They're accurate enough to be true to the physical hardware. And they offer unique features. Enough features to differentiate themselves into another model number. With just those two criteria they earn a place in any official product catalog. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 A true gold standard of emulation... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbyti Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, Keatah said: Some emulators are comprehensive enough today to be considered another form of the original hardware. This is true. Personally I treat all 8-bit computers as fantasy consoles like PICO-8 and only use emulators Edited July 20, 2020 by zbyti fantasy consoles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmenit Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 In Altirra you can select random memory pattern in configuration. Is there an option to select random pokey initialization so "lda $D20A" will return different value each time executable file is loaded directly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Is that what happens on real hardware? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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