The Worlds Smallest Atari 8-Bit?

[+mytek]

59 minutes ago, Frankie said:

I tried a PokeyMAX with my NUC and while the system came up, the keyboard keys were all wrong. Everything seemed to be mapped wrong. Has anyone else tried this?

Sounds like a problem I recall hearing about with the earliest release of the PokeyMax, and I believe was related to the direction of the key scan being reversed. Maybe updating the PokeyMax will correct that. Although just to be perfectly clear, there may still be other issues that remain due to trying to use the PokeyMax with the TK-II aspect of the NUC.

 

[gsunr]

Will FujiCart schematics/gerbers be available to the public or only through Brewing Academy?

[+mytek]

4 hours ago, gsunr said:

Will FujiCart schematics/gerbers be available to the public or only through Brewing Academy?

The FujiNet/Cart is currently a proprietary device as far as I'm aware. So gerbers have not been released to the public. As for the schematics, those might be available. Best to check with either @Mr Robot the creator, or @MacRorie the manufacturer.

 

[+mytek]

Just a heads up...

 

I had revised the STL Case files on my website a few days ago, but have since reverted to the previous download dated 3-26-2022. There is a potential problem with the newer files that I am looking into. So please disregard the 3-29-2022 download if you have it.

 

[rsh]

Got my NUC+ fantastic device, I'm really happy with it!  I was wondering is there a way for me to program the star raider and/or  pacman cart load (Alt+4 or Alt+3) to maybe a Action! or MAC65 cart load?

[+mytek]

2 hours ago, rsh said:

Got my NUC+ fantastic device, I'm really happy with it!  I was wondering is there a way for me to program the star raider and/or  pacman cart load (Alt+4 or Alt+3) to maybe a Action! or MAC65 cart load?

No. Those are not 8K languages.

 

[Mr Robot]

7 hours ago, mytek said:

The FujiNet/Cart is currently a proprietary device as far as I'm aware. So gerbers have not been released to the public. As for the schematics, those might be available. Best to check with either @Mr Robot the creator, or @MacRorie the manufacturer.

 

That's entirely up to @MacRorie, I handed it all over to him.

 

[rsh]

19 hours ago, mytek said:

No. Those are not 8K languages.

 

I see... So are the Alt+3-4 keys programmable if it fit within the memory limit? 

[+Stephen]

1 hour ago, rsh said:

I see... So are the Alt+3-4 keys programmable if it fit within the memory limit? 

Yes - a different EPROM can be flashed, but not from the Atari (the way that U1MB can for example).

[mozzwald]

On 3/31/2022 at 9:15 AM, mytek said:

The FujiNet/Cart is currently a proprietary device as far as I'm aware. So gerbers have not been released to the public.

I've been "triggered" by your use of the word proprietary in the same sentence with FujiNet  FujiNet is a completely open project, hardware and software. The license states that modifying the source and releasing a product requires releasing your modified source. Judging by the fact that the FujiNet name is being used and FujiNet compiled code is running on the device I would venture to guess this is a derivative of the original. 

 

I'm not the FujiNet police nor do I want to be, just want to make the intentions of the project clear. I understand the time, effort and money it takes to make a device like this. I can only hope that the files will be released after @MacRorie has recouped the costs of development. As always, pull requests are welcome

[+mytek]

45 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Yes - a different EPROM can be flashed, but not from the Atari (the way that U1MB can for example).

Yep that is correct. So you need something like a TL866 to reprogram the EEPROM and a hex editor to replace those 8K languages with your own choice beforehand.

 

For instance, here is one that I use, having Altirra Basic, Basic RevC, Assembler/Editor, Star Raiders: 576NUC_64K_OS_ASM-EDIT_StarRaiders.rom

 

Presently the HSIO patched OS only works for slots 1 and 3, but that could just as easily be designated for for all the slots.

 

4 minutes ago, mozzwald said:

I've been "triggered" by your use of the word proprietary in the same sentence with FujiNet  FujiNet is a completely open project, hardware and software. The license states that modifying the source and releasing a product requires releasing your modified source. Judging by the fact that the FujiNet name is being used and FujiNet compiled code is running on the device I would venture to guess this is a derivative of the original. 

Well to put it simply, we don't mess with your code, and I wasn't referring to the FujiNet firmware. I was referring to the hardware, hence the schematic for such. On the hardware I did do major changes to the SIO interface, but I can still see that as a derivative. So the schematic probably should be released, and was for the NUC/FujiNet only version.

 

[rsh]

2 hours ago, Stephen said:

Yes - a different EPROM can be flashed, but not from the Atari (the way that U1MB can for example).

Ok thanks,  Doesn't appear to be a simple task.  no worries. Thought maybe there was a menu selection, config or something.

[+mytek]

2 hours ago, rsh said:

Ok thanks,  Doesn't appear to be a simple task.  no worries. Thought maybe there was a menu selection, config or something.

Yeah it does get a bit involved, and you have to understand the ROMs memory map.

 

 

In the original XEGS 32 Kbyte map, the OS sits at the very end, with the game (Missile Command) at the beginning, and BASIC in the middle. The NUC has simply doubled that to 64 Kbytes, and banks between the upper and lower 32 Kbytes. Two OS versions are incorporated, so as to allow ramping back from HSIO to STOCK in case there is a conflict with whatever game and/or program is being loaded.

 

-----------

 

Getting back to NUC/FujiNet...

 

Since the FujiNet derivative circuit being used in the NUC/FujiNet ONLY daughter board is virtually the same as what got used in the NUC/FujiNet/Cart version, aside from using a built-in USB Serial-to-TTL module, and incorporating a volume control pot for the SIO audio, I feel that the already released public domain schematic(s) fulfills any obligation to keep it open source. The full schematic and BOM for the entire project can be downloaded here, as well as gerbers for everything other than the FujiNet/Cart board: https://ataribits.weebly.com/576nuc.html

 

And here are schematics of both released NUC/FujiNet ONLY versions out in the wild...

 

NUC-FujiNet-ONLY_V1.5_schema.pdf

NUC-FujiNet-ONLY_V1.6_schema.pdf

 

V1.6 changed the I/O pin assignment for the SD Card Detect Switch to be the same as the latest revision of the the official FujiNet project.

 

It would still be nice to at least release the schematic for the NUC/FujiNet/Cart board, although I don't see that as a must.

 

@mozzwald if you feel that something is missing, please post your thoughts here

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by mytek

[mozzwald]

1 hour ago, mytek said:

It would still be nice to at least release the schematic for the NUC/FujiNet/Cart board, although I don't see that as a must.

 

@mozzwald if you feel that something is missing, please post your thoughts here

My opinion is that the entire design was released under a license that requires any modifications be released by the licensee. If the licensee read the schematic and created a new FujiNet partly based on that, then licensee should release any and all files related to the new product that licensee has designed and is selling. I'm not a lawyer so maybe I'm wrong, but that's how it reads to me and that is why I chose this license. There's at least one person interested in gerbers for the pcb so someone wants to build their own and I think that's fair to at least allow someone that option if they so choose. The first FujiNet for NUC had a gerber release so I see no reason why this newer version shouldn't have a gerber release as well.

 

That said, I don't want/am not trying to cause a stink or threaten anyone, just wanted to give nudge for a release of the complete designs in the near future.

[Mr Robot]

The NUC Fujinet design has been released by @mytek , the cart port version is the same schematic with another separate schematic where the cart port is constructed from the various pins on the NUC board, no part of the cart port overlaps with the Fujinet, it just shares the same PCB. 

 

Having said that, I also very much hope the schematic gets released when @MacRorie has recouped his costs. 

 

[+mytek]

I have no say in what is or is not released as far as the NUC/FujiNet/Cart board is concerned since I wasn't involved in it's creation other than acting as a consultant. And also because of that, I am not obligated to provide schematics, a BOM, or gerbers for this unique board on my website or in this topic. Now with that said, I too would very much like to see a full release of the design at some point down the road.

 

Keep in mind that there was a huge financial investment in the 576NUC+ project by myself, @Mr Robot, and @MacRorie. I strongly suspect it was far more than was invested in anything that came before it. I wrote off those expenses as water under the bridge, but I certainly can't expect others to do the same thing. So I feel it's only fair that they have exclusive rights to at least sell the cart board until they break even without having any competition until that's achieved. And as Steve pointed out (and myself as well), the fully released NUC/FujiNet ONLY board is really no different than what got implemented in the Cart board, being fully separate in nature from the Cart aspect. However if someone were to insist upon gerbers being made available for that, sure we can do that by chopping off the Cart part of it if you like. EDIT: Actually that would not be up to me.

 

@mozzwald I'm sorry if I'm coming across as rigid on this, but it really doesn't sit well with me when I consider how OPEN I've been with nearly everything I've done in this community, and the same goes for Mr Robot as well, who I believe contributed a lot to your original FujiNet project. And has designed some fantastic cases for the SDrive-Max, My MIDI boards, and the 576NUC+ to name a few (all given away freely I might add). As for FujiNet, I have always made sure to give you credit by acknowledging you and others front and center on the silk screen of my NUC/FujiNet board design. EDIT: I've never provided your firmware or flashing tool for download either here or on my website, and I don't ever plan to. It is left up to the DIY user to find what's required and flash it themselves.

 

Anyway i think it's time to take this discussion elsewhere since I don't consider this to be the appropriate venue for such anymore

 

Edited April 2, 2022 by mytek
added notes

[rkindig]

Ok, so I recently got the FujiCart board for the NUC and now I see this SDrive board, which is very cool.  Can the FujiCart board and the SDrive board both reside in the NUC concurrently?

 

thanks

[+mytek]

28 minutes ago, rkindig said:

Ok, so I recently got the FujiCart board for the NUC and now I see this SDrive board, which is very cool.  Can the FujiCart board and the SDrive board both reside in the NUC concurrently?

No they can not coexist, well at least not physically. However if some kind of FrankenBoard Stack-Up was conceived, then yes they could coexist electronically. But the reality of that happening is pretty slim to say the least

 

This non-coexistence aspect also applies to a mashup with the NUC/FujiNet/Cart daughter board as well.

 

Back in the early days of the 576NUC+ project there was one individual on the original beta team that really wanted to create a NUC/FujiNet/SDrive/Cart board, but through no fault of their own it was stopped. At the time I felt that it was taking the project in too many directions, as well as seeming redundant to have both a FujiNet and an SDrive because they both encompassed an SD Card methodology in their individual structure.

 

Bottom line is that FujiNet is more versatile than an SDrive, while also including what an SDrive brings to the table. However after using both, I came to the conclusion that trying to use the FujiNet like an SDrive in a non-networked setting was painful, because each and every time you booted the system it would be looking to connect before you could do anything. Of course you can skip this with a keystroke, but it still takes time before you finally get to the directory on the SD Card. So now one of my NUC's only has an SDrive. Because when all I need is to be able to load programs, it's just a more efficient way to do so.

 

EDIT: Also during this time of chip shortages, it's getting pretty difficult to acquire the proper ESP32 that FujiNet requires, whereas the ATMEGA328P chip at the heart of the SDrive has multiple sources (Jameco for one). So if you're building a 576NUC+ and want to be able load programs without connecting an SIO2PC, the SDrive might be the only way to do so at this moment in time. BTW, the chip shortage is predicted to continue for the next two years.

 

Edited April 2, 2022 by mytek

[+mytek]

2 hours ago, mytek said:

Also during this time of chip shortages, it's getting pretty difficult to acquire the proper ESP32 that FujiNet requires, whereas the ATMEGA328P chip at the heart of the SDrive has multiple sources (Jameco for one). So if you're building a 576NUC+ and want to be able load programs without connecting an SIO2PC, the SDrive might be the only way to do so at this moment in time. BTW, the chip shortage is predicted to continue for the next two years.

I have to eat my words. Looks like Digi-Key and Mouser got in a huge amount of these. Digi-Key P/N: 1965-ESP32-WROVER-E-N16R8CT-ND  Mouser P/N: 356-ESP32WRVE22864PC

 

[Bee]

I have fitted a Fuji Cart Board on one of the NUC +,  I'm wondering if I need more power?  I can run a uno cart by itself no issue.  Side 3 often starts repeating keys and crashes to a locked up blank screen, I have to power cycle (pulle the plug and re insert) to get it to power on again.  Without a cart and fujinet on, it crashed in a similar way except I can often still power it back on.  If I remove the Fuji Cart board I see no problems.  This is with a 12v 3A psu, all the parts came from the Brewing Academy, The Nuc ws pre built before the FC board was available .  Marlin did say it's Fiddly to install and I see why. 

 

Any input?

 

Thank you

[+mytek]

Hi @Bee I'm sorry to hear you are having problems with your NUC. Unfortunately I probably won't be of a lot of help, since I don't have the exact same setup as yourself. Anyway with that said, it isn't completely out of the realm of being a power issue. Due to the LC power filtering circuit and the power MOSFET switch there is a voltage drop. Typically the 5V bus will only be sitting around 4.86V because of this. Although I know that others with a very similar setup haven't found this lower voltage to be a problem, so perhaps something isn't up to to snuff with the onboard 5V switching regulator (the TO220 board next to the DA15 SIO jack). There is an AUX power header also near that side of the board, it is connected to the power bus after all the filtering and switching. If you could take a power reading at that header and tell us what it is, that would go a long ways towards diagnosing the issue.

 

Perhaps @MacRorie has something else to add, since by now he has built and tested the most NUCs than anyone else on this planet.

 

[_The Doctor__]

sounds like the fix would not be the external supply but rather the filter/switch circuit might need a tweak, these super duper carts / accessories can get picky about the 5 volt rail, many like 5.2 down to 5.0 at the far reaches of the mother board, so I'd say mytek has a good handle on it... 4.86 should be okay, but load things down with some goodies and slightly less than that and you get weirdness... slightly more and all is fine.

perhaps there's a way to boost it ever so slightly.

[+mytek]

1 hour ago, _The Doctor__ said:

sounds like the fix would not be the external supply but rather the filter/switch circuit might need a tweak, these super duper carts / accessories can get picky about the 5 volt rail, many like 5.2 down to 5.0 at the far reaches of the mother board, so I'd say mytek has a good handle on it... 4.86 should be okay, but load things down with some goodies and slightly less than that and you get weirdness... slightly more and all is fine.

perhaps there's a way to boost it ever so slightly.

I think there is, I'll have to take a look at the inductors that were used, and see if a substitution can decrease the resistance, while still providing enough filtering. But I'm putting the cart before the horse so to speak, since we haven't yet established that there is problem with how it's being done currently.

 

Although it certainly doesn't hurt to start investigating a solution that produces less voltage drop

 

[cobracon]

Just received my Nuc+ today from The Brewing Academy and the power supply was missing. I know its 12 volts but is the center pin positive or negative? Also how many amps are required?

 

Thanks

[+Stephen]

35 minutes ago, cobracon said:

Just received my Nuc+ today from The Brewing Academy and the power supply was missing. I know its 12 volts but is the center pin positive or negative? Also how many amps are required?

 

Thanks

Center positive, 2Amp, 2.5mm * 5.5mm barrel (taken directly from schematic).