Display Mode Question

[CloakeD]

In 160a with double width on..the largest the display is 20 tiles horizontally,is that correct?That would make conversions from other systems quite difficult,I'm impressed with what I've seen others accomplish.

 

I was looking at Binary Land for nes and this is the best I can do.

 

[+Pat Brady]

35 minutes ago, CloakeD said:

In 160a with double width on..the largest the display is 20 tiles horizontally,is that correct?That would make conversions from other systems quite difficult,I'm impressed with what I've seen others accomplish.

 

I was looking at Binary Land for nes and this is the best I can do.

 

Yes, 160A can fit 20 double-byte characters.

 

I am unfamiliar with Binary Land, but it looks like the Famicom version uses a 15-column playfield with half-width borders on each side. Your grid has 8 playfield columns and full-width borders, which puts each of your game units at 4 bytes wide. You can get enough columns by making each game unit 2 bytes, either as 2 single-byte characters or 1 2-byte character.

[CloakeD]

Thank you for the explanation Pat,appreciate it.

[CloakeD]

That means the tiles are 2 bytes(on nes) wide,so straight port code from nes is impossible as that uses 16x16(4 bytes,the way 160a does it) to adjust the movement of 16x16 blocks...bomber man,zelda..moving around the tiles.Trying to wrap my head around how this works for the 7800.Does this work the same as c64 double pixel?So instead of 0..7 pixels it's double?You get 0 to 3

 

hi res

double pixel

 

Edited October 30, 2020 by CloakeD

[CloakeD]

Definitely understand after doing some code myself,mixing asm and basic.Thanks again for the help.

 

 

 

 

 

[+Pat Brady]

No problem. Keep us posted. I like the idea of porting Famicom-but-not-NES games.

[CloakeD]

Will do

Edited November 6, 2020 by CloakeD

[+Pat Brady]

Sounds good. And it sounds like you're picking it up quickly.

 

I have read that 160A pixels have an aspect ratio of 5:3. So a simple way to approximate proportional 2-D motion is to move 1 pixel per frame vertically, and 1 pixel every other frame horizontally (or 2 pixels per frame vertically and 1 pixel per frame horizontally). It's smooth and reasonably close to proportional.

 

I do not intend to discourage you from doing fixed point movement — actually I'd be interested to see how it works — just wanted to mention this as an alternative.

[CloakeD]

You read my post before I edited it,I'm going with the fixed point only because I feel it's a bit fast personally for me but I'm going to let 7800 gamers decide the velocity and will do what majority say feels best for them compared to the famicom version,hopefully they play both and give me constructive feedback.I'll post two versions for gamers to try of course,integer and fixed point.I do appreciate the information you're sharing with me.

Edited November 6, 2020 by CloakeD

[CloakeD]

Small update,Got both characters being controlled by the player,vertical and horizontal position adjustment to not get stuck on the tile edges is also now working.Implemented spawning the spiders yesterday,code will check if the row,column is clear to place a spider.Next will be to implement the spider logic.

 

 

If you like to follow development you can have a play...http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=91217663233120254088

 

Edited November 13, 2020 by CloakeD
typo

[CloakeD]

Sorry for another question..but I noticed a member created some bubble bobble game pixel art,those are in 4x8 format & sprites at 4x2.I displayed his tiles in the 4x8 per level so my question is how many sprites at 8x16 is possible?I read that 4x8 tiles will cause the Maria to work more and cause me less objects.Any suggestions

Edited November 13, 2020 by CloakeD
Inquired more info

[+Pat Brady]

6 hours ago, CloakeD said:

Sorry for another question..but I noticed a member created some bubble bobble game pixel art,those are in 4x8 format & sprites at 4x2.I displayed his tiles in the 4x8 per level so my question is how many sprites at 8x16 is possible?I read that 4x8 tiles will cause the Maria to work more and cause me less objects.Any suggestions

 

First of all, nice work so far. Turning corners works well.

 

When you say AxB, what are A and B?

 

Even within a single graphics mode, the limits are somewhat complicated. I've heard generalizations, but the optimum MARIA configuration really depends on what you're trying to do.

 

For your Binary Land game, I'd recommend 16-line zones, indirect mode with 2-byte characters for the playfield (maze) blocks, and everything else in direct mode (sprites), including the side borders. By my calculations that should leave time to draw up to 16 sprites per zone (assuming each sprite is also 2 bytes wide). There are a few different ways to do the top and bottom borders, but that won't affect how many objects MARIA can draw in your playfield.

 

The rationale for using indirect mode for the blocks is that they are often repeated within a zone and are evenly spaced. 2-byte characters are somewhat more efficient than twice as many 1-byte characters, and the drawbacks of 2-byte characters are unimportant here. You might be tempted to also use indirect mode for the side borders, but they can't go in the same character map as the blocks due to different palettes, and a dedicated character map for them would be inefficient.

 

LMK if you want more or less detail.

[CloakeD]

 That's detailed enough for me,thank you Pat.

[CloakeD]

I had to put this into the uncomplete dev folder as I was busy with other dev projects,increasing my knowledge of strategy games(path finding,AI Logic ect..) & recently reverse engineer arcade games, Kangaroo,Ring Fighter,Cloak & Dagger,Monster Bash,in that order.I'll get back on this in a few days.

[CloakeD]

I'm a lot further into this but as an example do some you want to follow along with me & the reverse engineer of my favorite games?

 

 

 

I could share some code along the way like so..

 

 

Do_IntroKangaroosGoingToBabies: 
 call HandleMomKangaroo1
 call HandleMomKangaroo2
 call HandleMomKangaroo3  
 
 
HandleMomKangaroo3:
 ld hl,MomKangarooLinkedList3
 jr HandleMomKangaroos 
HandleMomKangaroo2: 
 ld hl,MomKangarooLinkedList2
 jr HandleMomKangaroos
HandleMomKangaroo1:
 ld hl,MomKangarooLinkedList1
HandleMomKangaroos: 
 bit 7,(hl)
 ret
 bit 0,(hl)               ;Mom Kangaroos State
 jr nz,MomKangarooFall          
 inc hl        
 ld e,(hl)                ;Mom Kangaroo X
 inc hl
 ld d,(hl)                ;Mom Kangaroo Y
 push hl
 push de
 call HandleMomKangaroosAnimation 
 pop de
 pop hl
 inc e                    ;Mom Kangaroos X  
 inc e                    ;Mom Kangaroos X

 

 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by CloakeD

[CloakeD]

I wasn't really sure if this was something others would enjoy(I'm kinda weird when it comes to this stuff) understandable this is not an interest to others.

Edited January 31, 2021 by CloakeD

[CloakeD]

My focus is on Kangaroo right now but cloak & dagger is on of my favorites,Unfortunately this is far off as I have other games.

.

Edited January 31, 2021 by CloakeD

[Trebor]

On 1/30/2021 at 11:01 PM, CloakeD said:

I'm a lot further into this but as an example do some you want to follow along with me & the reverse engineer of my favorite games?

 

On 1/31/2021 at 5:23 AM, CloakeD said:

I wasn't really sure if this was something others would enjoy(I'm kinda weird when it comes to this stuff) understandable this is not an interest to others.

No matter what you decided, there will always be those who love the game, like the game, indifferent towards the game, or hate the game.   My recommendation is for you to pursue the game(s) that interest you and makes you happy developing on the system.  Even under those conditions, it can be quite challenging to complete a game; nonetheless, the probability of completion is greater. 

 

Whether it's Binary Land, Kangaroo, Cloak & Dagger, or something else entirely, certainly looking forward to future developments.  Thank you for sharing.

[SearsRoebuck]

Let me put in a vote in for Kangaroo. It's one of my top wants, but 'asks' are a taboo here IMO, and I am not a programmer myself.  Thankfully alot of the homebrewers have similar taste to my own, so I have not been at all disappointed with what Bob and others have decided to put out, though there are some others that either had weak/no conversions that would be awesome to see. 

[CloakeD]

@SearsRoebuck For me personally Kangaroo is completely underrated,I loved playing this game in the arcade as a kid.It's fun to take apart one of my favorite arcade games & learn how everything was implemented.I now know how the ai logic works and the kangaroo handling so I'll start building a playable level over the next few days.

[CloakeD]

"but 'asks' are a taboo here IMO, and I am not a programmer myself." asks are taboo here? Why does it matter if your a non programmer?as a gamer you want some of your favorites on the system...completely understandable.Even if you wanted to suggest games to devs it's entirely understandable.Requests from gamers should be considered,as it's them that play our games.

Edited February 3, 2021 by CloakeD

[CloakeD]

So what is at your top want game on 7800

[Trebor]

On 2/3/2021 at 5:18 AM, CloakeD said:

So what is at your top want game on 7800

Since you are asking...couldn't pick just one category, so for each category, the number one game listed would be my top want from that category.

 

As far as games I am unaware of an existing port being worked on:

 

Arcade games not ported elsewhere on any platform:

1.  Pandora's Palace

2.  Monster Bash (Better known sequel 'Ghost House' was ported)

3.  Jumping Jack

 

Arcade games receiving computer or/and prototype only console porting:

1.  Do! Run Run (Truth is I'd love to see the entire series of Do! games ported: Do! Run Run, Mr. Do's Wild Ride, Mr's Do's Castle, Mr. Do).

2.  Ponpoko

3.  Kicker (AKA Shao-Lin's Road.  Additionally, would love to see the more popular sequel, Yie Ar Kung-Fu, ported).

 

Arcade games receiving minimal console porting:

1.  Arabian (Famicom only has a game called "Super Arabian")

 

From another platform:

1.  NES Rygar (Quite different from the Arcade original and my favorite 8-bit console title; had to post playing it twice).

 

Received some/many ports - still want it anyway:

1.  Bank Panic

2.  Satan's Hollow

3.  (Insert any Tengen title here)

...dozens of more games.

 

Non-Arcade...

1.  Master of Darkness/Castlevania-like

2.  Neutopia/Zelda/Golden Axe Warrior-like

3.  Sonic/Bonk-like

[+Muddyfunster]

1 hour ago, Trebor said:

Bank Panic

I started a version of this for the 2600 called "Space Bank". Got a fair way in before I abandoned / paused the project. Unlikely I'll go back to it on the 2600.

 

 

A 7800 version would be very doable.

 

Sorry for derailing  !

 

 

 

 

[SearsRoebuck]

By 'Asks' I mean HEY BOB HEY BOB MAKE THIS FOR ME.  I guess that isn't the same for merely stating what ports you'd like to see -

 

Ports done elsewhere to varying degrees that I'd like to see done as a modern homebrew:

 

1. Mr. DO! - I hate every 8 bit port of this game. The only decent port was the SNES version, but thats overkill. Would like to see a Mr DO! port on the 7800 or NES

2. Congo Bongo - some of the ports of this game were fair (ie Colecovision) but none got it totally right. 

3. Up n Down - Colecovision version is the best, and I have the 2600 version, but like to see it on the 7800.  

4. Tapper - 2600 version plays good but is ugly, Colecovision looks OK but is slow. 

5. Tempest 

6. Missile Command 

 

Never ported anywhere:
 

1. Black Widow - Absolutely love this game, which can get insane in the later levels. 

2. Zektor - Space Fury's underrated sequel.

3. Tropical Angel by Irem - unique waterski game

4. Indian Battle - Taito space invaders variant.

 

and one that will never happen because its too obscure:

 

5. Itazura Tenshi/Lovely Angel by Nichibutsu - bizarre consetelation making cupid game. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by SearsRoebuck