Hyper_Eye Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 11 hours ago, LordKraken said: Never played the 3do version, but based on this comparison video the jag seems to be the best version out there (with the 3do almost on par tbh): I'm not sure what cables they were using for that video but Wolf 3D looks way cleaner than that on my Jag using S-Video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 2 hours ago, Hyper_Eye said: I'm not sure what cables they were using for that video but Wolf 3D looks way cleaner than that on my Jag using S-Video. SCART is much better than S Video. With S Video, I get color bleeding with reds and some weird rainbow pattern effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zap1982 Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 (edited) Couple of months late to this thread but Wolfenstein 3D is one of my all time faves. The PC version will run on a 1mb ram IBM 286 PC flawlessly so a very versatile piece of engineering. The Jag version is a very nice version to play, my favorite console port is hands down 3DO. You get the abreviated Jag/Snes game AND the original PC Maps in their 6 episode glory! Like Jag and Snes though they removed some of the original bosses and instead use a few from Spear of Destiny, the PC sequel. The SNES version was indeed heavily censored and at the time of writting this post I am unsure if it ever had a German release. If it did then that will probably be a big part of why as until very, very recently certain "decals" were banned in video games. Even the likes of Doom 3 BFG editions secret Wolfenstein maps in Doom 2 were reworked to remove all references to the game, even their names were changed. A fun version to play is Wolfstone 3D. This game can be found in an arcade cabinet within Wolfenstein 2: The New Collosus. As the modern franchise takes place in an altetnate timeline were Germany won WW2 the game is a reimagining of what Wolf3D might have looked like. It is essentially the PC 6 episode game were you play as a German soldier taking down the resistance where final boss is BJ himself. Highly recommended! Edited May 9, 2021 by Zap1982 Typos and grammer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 On 2/17/2021 at 6:20 PM, 82-T/A said: It also reminded me how they removed the swastikas from the SNES version... which I'm not sure I understand the point of that. Whole other discussion obviously... but what is the point of erasing history, or pretending like it didn't exist? Who were they trying to protect by removing the swastikas from the SNES version? Probably due to local laws. In Japan there were games on the Super Famicom where you could play as Nazi Germany. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Havoc 2049 Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 On 2/17/2021 at 7:29 AM, LordKraken said: Never played the 3do version, but based on this comparison video the jag seems to be the best version out there (with the 3do almost on par tbh): After watching this, the Jag looks the best. The pistol in the 3DO version looks like a cheap toy gun. The Jag is also full screen, which is cool and the gun/shooting animations look really cool. The Jag version of Wolfenstein has Q-Sound as well, for a surround sound effect. Do any of the other versions have that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripled79 Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 On 2/17/2021 at 11:20 AM, 82-T/A said: It also reminded me how they removed the swastikas from the SNES version... which I'm not sure I understand the point of that. Whole other discussion obviously... but what is the point of erasing history, or pretending like it didn't exist? Who were they trying to protect by removing the swastikas from the SNES version? Probably a sensitivity issue. I suppose the people at Nintendo thought it was still too recent. I don't know. I suppose some people might be "triggered" by a game that has imagery of the twin towers collapsing. And I imagine most developers don't want that kind of attention. I think this whole "erasing history" idea is misplaced. It's not about trying to erase something. It's about doing the right thing. I'm sure after WW2 they took down all the Swastikas in Germany not because they were trying to "erase history" but because it was the right thing to do. They didn't want to leave those things up for the sake of preserving history. Anyone that wants to look up history can do so by using the internet for something other than pornography. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class316 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Jag version blows SNES version out of the water, no doubt about it. But correct me if I'm wrong, you can't strafe in the Jag version? Also, one major disadvantage of the Jag version over the PC, the enemies are essentially "flat" and don't turn like in the PC version. Essentially you can't sneak up on them like in the PC version. See this image of the DOS version that I am running in PCem via Windows 98: Another note, while it's true it's uncensored compared to the SNES, it's not uncensored. There is no Horst Wessel melody like in the PC version. While it has advantages of the PC version, overall the original is still best, IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Editorb Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 6 minutes ago, Class316 said: Jag version blows SNES version out of the water, no doubt about it. But correct me if I'm wrong, you can't strafe in the Jag version? Jag allows strafing but not circle strafing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alucardX Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 On 1/20/2021 at 10:18 PM, Rick Dangerous said: I emailed John Carmack earlier today thanking him for the Jaguar ports of Wolf and Doom and he wrote me back; which is pretty cool. John Carmack is so awesome. I emailed him years ago and received a response. That was back in the id days though and I have no idea what his current address is. Thanks for sharing the email. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jones007 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 On 1/20/2021 at 11:18 PM, Rick Dangerous said: I emailed John Carmack earlier today thanking him for the Jaguar ports of Wolf and Doom and he wrote me back; which is pretty cool. Could you ask him if he still has a copy of the Beta Sega Saturn Doom version? The one that got cancelled, due to texture warping? He must have had one, he tested it and turned it down. Sega Saturn fans would pay a fortune for that version - it got lost, unfortunately. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Dangerous Posted February 23, 2023 Author Share Posted February 23, 2023 Ask him anything you want, I forgot where I got this: johncarmack@fb.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roots.genoa Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Regarding the censorship, for instance I watched recently The Blues Brothers. I had already seen it but a long time ago and I had forgotten there were Nazis in that movie. And it kinda bothered me to be honest, because it was not very funny and looked out of place. I know you guys (as in American people) "love" the Nazis; I mean you love to punch them, kill them, torture them because it makes you feel like you're the good guys (even though one might think you lower to their level by doing that), but some people, especially in Europe, think it's very bad taste to do any form of "entertainment" with Nazis - some critics even think that movies like Son of Saul, even though they're very serious, are offensive because they try to depict the Holocaust in a "immersive" way, like some kind of grim roller-coaster if you will. I admit that some jokes about Nazis make me laugh some time, but I can understand that some people consider there's nothing fun about them. Wolfenstein is a silly video game with Hitler in a mech suit for instance, so frankly I would have preferred they removed any reference to a tragic part of History. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LS650 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Didn't Mel Brooks once say, "If you can't make fun of the Nazis, who can you make fun of?" 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Editorb Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 2 hours ago, roots.genoa said: Regarding the censorship, for instance I watched recently The Blues Brothers. I had already seen it but a long time ago and I had forgotten there were Nazis in that movie. And it kinda bothered me to be honest, because it was not very funny and looked out of place. I know you guys (as in American people) "love" the Nazis; I mean you love to punch them, kill them, torture them because it makes you feel like you're the good guys (even though one might think you lower to their level by doing that), but some people, especially in Europe, think it's very bad taste to do any form of "entertainment" with Nazis - some critics even think that movies like Son of Saul, even though they're very serious, are offensive because they try to depict the Holocaust in a "immersive" way, like some kind of grim roller-coaster if you will. I admit that some jokes about Nazis make me laugh some time, but I can understand that some people consider there's nothing fun about them. Wolfenstein is a silly video game with Hitler in a mech suit for instance, so frankly I would have preferred they removed any reference to a tragic part of History. Movie was released in '80 after efforts by Illinois Nazis to hold rallies in Chicago and Skokie, so in the context of a Chitown-based movie, depicting them as morons hated by the characters, who force them to jump into a river (been a while since I've seen it) made sense and offered some catharsis. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class316 Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, roots.genoa said: Regarding the censorship, for instance I watched recently The Blues Brothers. I had already seen it but a long time ago and I had forgotten there were Nazis in that movie. And it kinda bothered me to be honest, because it was not very funny and looked out of place. I know you guys (as in American people) "love" the Nazis; I mean you love to punch them, kill them, torture them because it makes you feel like you're the good guys (even though one might think you lower to their level by doing that), but some people, especially in Europe, think it's very bad taste to do any form of "entertainment" with Nazis - some critics even think that movies like Son of Saul, even though they're very serious, are offensive because they try to depict the Holocaust in a "immersive" way, like some kind of grim roller-coaster if you will. I admit that some jokes about Nazis make me laugh some time, but I can understand that some people consider there's nothing fun about them. Wolfenstein is a silly video game with Hitler in a mech suit for instance, so frankly I would have preferred they removed any reference to a tragic part of History. So you're saying we should erase history because you disapprove of its imagery? That is censorship at its finest and the very definition of woke culture that is destroying society. Wolfenstein 3D is/was defined by the Third Reich imagery and anthem and is part of the game's content. If you don't approve of this don't ruin it by advocating censorship. Simply don't play the game and play something where that imagery doesn't exist rather than ruin it for other people. You are not forced to play the game, don't try to force "your" version of the game on others. If there were a WWII game nothing wrong with being able to play as any side including the German or Japanese side, with imagery and all. For the simple fact that it is a WWII history and they were part of that war. There are tons of games where you get to play as the USSR with the hammer and sickle. No one complains about those even though the USSR had its own concentration camps and was responsible for the murder of 100 million people. Command and Conquer: Red Alert is one such game that comes to mind. Edited February 24, 2023 by Class316 1 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roots.genoa Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 8 hours ago, Editorb said: Movie was released in '80 after efforts by Illinois Nazis to hold rallies in Chicago and Skokie, so in the context of a Chitown-based movie, depicting them as morons hated by the characters, who force them to jump into a river (been a while since I've seen it) made sense and offered some catharsis. Thanks for the info, it makes a lot more sense now. That's the problem when you watch a film out of context... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roots.genoa Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 4 hours ago, Class316 said: So you're saying we should erase history because you disapprove of its imagery? That is censorship at its finest and the very definition of woke culture that is destroying society. Wolfenstein 3D is/was defined by the Third Reich imagery and anthem and is part of the game's content. If you don't approve of this don't ruin it by advocating censorship. Simply don't play the game and play something where that imagery doesn't exist rather than ruin it for other people. You are not forced to play the game, don't try to force "your" version of the game on others. If there were a WWII game nothing wrong with being able to play as any side including the German or Japanese side, with imagery and all. For the simple fact that it is a WWII history and they were part of that war. There are tons of games where you get to play as the USSR with the hammer and sickle. No one complains about those even though the USSR had its own concentration camps and was responsible for the murder of 100 million people. Command and Conquer: Red Alert is one such game that comes to mind. No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm not saying they should remove Nazi imagery in Wolfenstein NOW, it's too late for that. I rather wish there never was Nazi imagery in Wolfenstein, because I think it was in bad taste. But once again, too late, so I'm not asking for any censorship. Please don't bring any woke culture paranoia bullshit here. And I'm not saying C&C is better in that regard, you're once again drawing conclusions. Actually, my point was some people don't think it's fine to do any form of "entertainment" based on tragic events. So even a WWII game is problematic then, even if it's educative in some way. It's not necessarily my case mind you, but I clearly prefer games using imaginary settings, like Advance Wars for instance. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordKraken Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 I don't share @roots.genoa opinion but as a fellow french, I understand his position. The fact that millions of people were exterminated is still very present and concrete, and even 80 years later we all know someone who lost a parent or grand parent, or was affected by this madness. Now should that prevent us to use Nazis in fiction? I personally don't think so, as long as it's not a way to excuse their crimes. On that note, while the original Wolfenstein was made by pretty young, probably quite immature, people, it's grotesque and far from excusing their crimes, it rather ridicules them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roots.genoa Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 Actually, even though there will always be fascists everywhere unfortunately, the fact that there were Nazi rallies in the US around 1980 after decades of depicting Nazis in comic books and popular culture makes me wonder if entertainment didn't "normalize" Nazis to some extent. Once again, I'm not saying we don't have Nazis in Europe anyway, but I'm not sure "exploiting" them in pop culture, even to make fun of them, is such a good idea. I like Mel Brooks but I'm not sure everything he says is undeniable, unfortunately. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 (edited) Imagine Wolfenstein was never programmed, does that erase the reality of historic events? Sorry, that is apologetic bullshit. Wolfenstein is a product for entertainment, not an historically valuable source of events. And it is legit to reflect on that matter, if it was ethically responsible to use NAZI symbols and idols for rather trivial entertainment purposes. If our fellow new forum troll here thinks it was relevant to listen to the "Horst Wessel Lied" propaganda tune during play, I highly doubt he has thought through his whole argument. Edited February 24, 2023 by agradeneu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LS650 Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 If we can't have games where the Nazis are the bad guys, are there _any_ historical figures that we can use? I guess the same thinking would rule out pretty much any group of people who ever existed in history. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundGammon Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 Play it in surround sound, you can hear the enemies behind you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Editorb Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 Not to belabor the National Socialist tangent, but as a downstater (about five hours south of Chicago) I greatly appreciate the disdain the Brothers de la Blues express for Illinois Nazis. The phrase is so incongruous (one of these is not like the other) that saying or hearing it evoke a sense, of, well, hmm. I guess I'm not sure, but there was something great about seeing people who were that dumb/deluded referred to as Illinois Nazis before receiving some justified comeuppance. Googlerizing Illinois Nazis leads to fascinating details such and a Jewish ACLU attorney defending their right to march in heavily Jewish Skokie. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhd Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 3 hours ago, ls650 said: If we can't have games where the Nazis are the bad guys, are there _any_ historical figures that we can use? I guess the same thinking would rule out pretty much any group of people who ever existed in history. At the risk of venturing into politics, I would limit this to historical figures that are now old enough to no longer be controversial. Ancient Egyptian Pharaohs (except Akhenaten), for example, and even someone as recent as Charlemagne should be fine to use. I would recommend avoiding many of the later Medieval European monarchs, and absolutely everyone from the Seventeenth Century onwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class316 Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 Nothing wrong with using any historical figures or imagery in entertainment or fiction. Anyone doesn't like the use of something in particular? Don't engage in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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