Incognito incompatibilities.

[flashjazzcat]

1 hour ago, Tempest said:

I just want the ability to load BASIC if need be for various games that require it.  If I have to reenable it in the loader when a game needs it I guess I can do it that way.

This already exists and is described in the manual:

I have a feeling the feature is little-used, but let me know if there is any problem with it.

 

[_The Doctor__]

given the problems of fat vs fat16 vs fat32, would it be prudent to replace instance of the word fat with fat16/32 in most of the documentation. Also, the SDX driver that allows for fat access was fat16... if I recall at some point during the iterations of setting up years back, I too fell short and had issues with having had fat and not fat16 as my common system. Anything to help keep us from such oddities, these self made issues and keeps us out of every-bodies hair so to speak. Perhaps an improvement perhaps not... but maybe helpful?

[flashjazzcat]

Reading the manual is an absolute last resort as far as I can tell, so I would probably have to burden the software with prompts telling the user that the exFAT partition it found cannot be opened, etc, and there isn't room for that.

 

Nevertheless, the description of the launcher menu on page 39 explicitly states that it displays the contents of FAT16 and FAT32 partitions, and nothing else. I think the shorthand 'FAT partition' is reasonably illustrative after that.

Edited January 26, 2021 by flashjazzcat

[_The Doctor__]

I believe I said in the documentation, didn't mention changing wording in the software... however, since people skim as they read or jump around they might and evidently do miss that information. It figures using the built in search and replace on the text editor and making that change might be helpful... I am not entirely certain all the way back when this journey started we even had that much stated. Like I stated, every little bit helps... at least where folks at least glance at the manual/docs etc.  Based on the normal course of things, it would appear that not everyone reads cover to cover or retains it all when doing so.

 

It certainly couldn't hurt though.

[flashjazzcat]

Please read my post carefully to ascertain where changing the wording of the software comes into it. Nowhere did I imply that you directly suggested any such thing.

 

So: we can at least agree that careful reading is an uncommon occurence.

 

Now that I look again, 'FAT16 and FAT32' is explicitly stated at three highly conspicuous points in the loader documentation: in the introduction, and in the sections covering the partition and file browsers. Not to throw shade on anyone who didn't read it, but I think replacing every other 'FAT' shorthand reference is total overkill whether search and replace is available or not.

Edited January 27, 2021 by flashjazzcat

[_The Doctor__]

Careful reading is very uncommon, and for some of us, reading at all is becoming almost impossible. Even though you can magnify and blow the page up quite large and have the machine speak out pseudo English, other problems may exist for those of us afflicted with eyesight or even cognitive issues that only deteriorate as time progresses.

 

In other news, our cat is doing better. Playing with her toy mouse and hanging out, why she even purrs a bit. Sadly her favorite canned cat food has been discontinued... this is not going to go over well. She however has a dry food that is tolerated.

 

I'm trying to figure out how I had APT, Fat16, and Fat32 all on the same card and getting along without windows clobbering it when it sees it... I am not sure if it required a stand alone reader to do it, because the machines I have with the built in slot on the laptops aren't cutting it. This of course is a Windows quirk or problem...

[flashjazzcat]

Well, if the actual problem is that you cannot see or comprehend the document, you have my sympathies, but I cannot do much about it.

[_The Doctor__]

Typical,

but not unexpected...

was waiting for it, and wasn't disappointed...

some of the guys on here can't... and there isn't much anyone can do... other than be patient and work through it.

any little thing I can do to help, I try to do.

There's a good guy on here that can only focus on one task at a time and any distraction can mess him up... I've spent hours on the phone with him till the problem was sorted. I don't always have time for that sort of thing, nor do many others. I've learned that little things like spelling stuff out in a way I wouldn't for any others works well for him. It's a mixed bag here, some people are in the prime of life and can speed read remembering every detail, others not so much.

 

Hopefully I don't set them off or make them feel in way that comes off badly or putting them in a bad or laughable light. Admittedly helping isn't always an easy task and can be impossible due shortcomings either of my own or theirs.

 

I see some find all of it laughable or funny. Looks like joy can be had rightly or wrongly, at least they're happy!

Edited January 27, 2021 by _The Doctor__

[invisible kid]

I think I'd rather have a stock 8k Atari 400 with a tape drive than deal with this type of stuff. To each their own though.

[_The Doctor__]

A person who skips to the table of contents and reads a specific section and reads fat and not fat16 or fat32 can have issues setting up his machine... and this happens to people as they may not have read the whole manual. I pointed out other cases and reasons from common to uncommon why it made be a good idea. Perhaps they set it up 5 years ago and need to again, and tried a quick refresher and missed that tiny detail... If you don't care, neither do I. It was a suggestion something simple to do. No big deal. Have fun making fun.

Edited January 27, 2021 by _The Doctor__

[+Stephen]

1 hour ago, flashjazzcat said:

Well, if the actual problem is that you cannot see or comprehend the document, you have my sympathies, but I cannot do much about it.

There's no accounting for stupid it would seem.  You write half a page of documentation, people ask for more.  You write 200 pages, people say it's too much, they can't comprehend.  No attention span, no accountability.  FJC - damn you for your shit documentation and hard to use software.  You've exposed a major comprehension issue and I for one, don't know how to feel about it.  I just know that you are to blame.

[+Stephen]

BTW - I'm wondering since I am old.  Where can I take a class in this modern way of thinking?  No accountability on users knowing how to use a product, a grand feeling of entitlement, a lack of manners, a demanding demeanor?  I feel like I am missing out in the modern way of living and treating people.

[_The Doctor__]

Welcome to AtariAge!

You're already there, either you're taking the class, you're teaching the class, or you're the class clown... either way it's all the same.

A lot of drama and chatter over nothing.

 

 

I wonder where the list of demands are? Who is entitled to those demands? Did the villain ask politely?

There goes the neighborhood!

Edited January 27, 2021 by _The Doctor__

[Tempest]

Don't make me lock this thread over something so stupid.  Everyone just drop it and move on.  I got my problem sorted out (thanks to all who helped) and that's what counts.

[Mazzspeed]

1 hour ago, invisible kid said:

I think I'd rather have a stock 8k Atari 400 with a tape drive than deal with this type of stuff. To each their own though.

Geezus.

 

I've been a Commodore user all my life, recently I became curious about the Atari A8 side of things and set up a emulated machine with U1MB/SIDE2 and VBXE, even set up an 850 with a virtual modem and use it to access BBS's in the traditional style I prefer. I struggled with a few things, but for the most part the manual told me everything I needed to know and I was able to get the basic machine up and running no problem.

 

Where I did have issues, I asked politely and got the assistance I needed and was very grateful.

 

No good staying in the past because you can't be bothered learning something new, that's right up there with people that can't move off Microsoft Excel because it's what they used in 1997.

 

EDIT: Sorry Tempest, I was typing this post when you replied and didn't see your post. Feel free to delete if necessary.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Mazzspeed

[+Stephen]

17 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said:

There goes the neighborhood!

There is a commonality to so many of these threads that get taken off course.  Popular thought is, an apple a day keeps them away.

[+Stephen]

3 minutes ago, Mazzspeed said:

Geezus.

 

I've been a Commodore user all my life, recently I became curious about the Atari A8 side of things and set up a emulated machine with U1MB/SIDE2 and VBXE, even set up an 850 with a virtual modem and use it to access BBS's in the traditional style I prefer. I struggled with a few things, but for the most part the manual told me everything I needed to know and I was able to get the basic machine up and running no problem.

 

Where I did have issues, I asked politely and got the assistance I needed and was very grateful.

 

No good staying in the past because you can't be bothered learning something new, that's right up there with people that can't move off Microsoft Excel because it's what they used in 1997.

No mazz - welcome to the large part of the Atari crowd.  If they had their way, we'd all still be on 16kB machines using 600 baud cassette tapes and a 5" black & white display, because "that what we had back in the day".

 

This killed Atari in the 80s - not using > 48kB.  It continues to kill advancements in software for the awesome new hardware we have access to these days (VBCE, et. all.)

[invisible kid]

I wouldn't get to worked up about it, it's just one man's opinion. Only do what makes you happy these days.

Edited January 27, 2021 by invisible kid

[Mazzspeed]

1 minute ago, invisible kid said:

I wouldn't get to worked up about it, it's just one man's opinion.

The thing is: As Stephen pointed out, fragmentation has traditionally been a massive issue regarding the A8 platform, and as a result growth of the platform was traditionally stunted.

 

It's ongoing advancements provided by the dedicated A8 community, resulting in hardware like the U1MB and Incognito, that overcomes such problems. You install a U1MB/Incognito, and like that virtually all compatibility issues are resolved (bearing in mind that this particular issue didn't seem to be the result of a compatibility issue). There's very little in the way of negatives regarding such advancements.

[BillC]

2 hours ago, Mazzspeed said:

stock 8k Atari 400 with a tape drive

My first Atari, came with early 410 with the metal carrying handle.

[Mark2008]

12 minutes ago, BillC said:

My first Atari, came with early 410 with the metal carrying handle.

My first Atari was the 400.   It came with nothing.  True story. the 400 was a display model, sold at clearance

 

No basic, no cassette recorder, no joystick.   

 

There is no twist to this story it was literally useless.  I typed in memopad and learned the keys.  I mighta been broke.

 

I did save up for basic and get that a few months later.   a cassette recorder about six months later.....the day I got the 1050, that was huge

Edited January 27, 2021 by Mark2008

[flashjazzcat]

7 hours ago, Stephen said:

There's no accounting for stupid it would seem.  You write half a page of documentation, people ask for more.  You write 200 pages, people say it's too much, they can't comprehend.  No attention span, no accountability.  FJC - damn you for your shit documentation and hard to use software.  You've exposed a major comprehension issue and I for one, don't know how to feel about it.  I just know that you are to blame.

Yeah. A few forum members - the complainant being a prime example - seem intent on airing some kind of opinion or gripe regardless whether it's based on fact or fantasy. Even if comprehensively rebutted, cognitive dissonance kicks in, the violins come out, the virtue signalling starts. Unbelievably disingenuous, smarmy and two-faced. He knows exactly what he's doing.

 

[Wilheim]

Good to know the BBSB issue is solved!

 

By my side, as soon as I can, I’ll buy an Incognito personality card so I can give further support to it. I was blind trying to find the problem out.

[dmsc]

Hi!

On 1/25/2021 at 9:36 AM, Wilheim said:

Attached is the last BETA version I made. It's supposed that every non-standard addresses use were fixed.

 

Please let us know if you find anything strange on it.

 

Thanks in advance!

Bounty Bob Strikes Back! - Incognito BETA 3.xex 40.1 kB · 12 downloads

This uses a very strange loader indeed... I took a memory snapshot from Atari800 emulator just before jumping to the main game at $F064, re-compressed the memory dump and made it a little shorter. Also it loads at $2100, so it should work loaded from any standard DOS.

 

Should work with Incognito.

 

Have Fun!

Bounty Bob Strikes Back - image-v2-dmsc.xex

[Tempest]

Does anyone know if there's a version of BBSB without those 3-D looking platforms (meaning they look like they do in the original)?  I could have sworn someone said that one of the overseas releases tweaked the game to remove the 3-D effect but I can't find it now.  The 3-D thing throws off my jumping and I'm always falling off.