christianscott Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 other than that high-score cart atari7800.com was selling i havent heard of any 7800 homebrews/ unreleased games coming out. whats the story, is due to to the programming hurdle, or is the tech. challenge of making the cart itself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy_Dude Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 or is the tech. challenge of making the cart itself? I'd think it would be no harder than the 2600 homebrews. In fact they use the same cart shells on a side note I'd love to see Thrust 2 released on the 7800 (And thats a challenge Thomas ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christianscott Posted August 6, 2003 Author Share Posted August 6, 2003 i'm not talking baout the shell which as you pointed out are the same as 2600s but rather the board and eprom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy_Dude Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Unless they used custom bankswitching (like NES mapper chips ) "I'd think it would be no harder than the 2600 homebrews." I knew what you where talkin' bout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 The boards and EPROM are not an issue, as the Klax and NTSC Sentinel repros prove. A lack of programming info for the 7800 is the most likely cause. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 That's the same reason that comes up everytime this is discussed in the 7800 forum. With the 2600 it's complicated, but the knowledge base of how to work with it and the extensive amount of people coding for it helps greatly. With the 5200, it's even possible to write code in Atari BASIC and port it (helps beginners get in the game). With the 7800, the only precedent for any post-Atari-80's release is Klax, and from what I understand that game was virtually complete to begin with before release. So nobody +has+ homebrewed a 7800 game, which is a major hurdle to overcome in and of itself. It's also my personal theory that backwards compatibility hurts in this case, because people who think about a 7800 game realize it's capable of running 2600 games and then just default to coding 2600, even though that mode doesn't have the powerful 7800 tools they could access and use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Klax wasn't modified post Atari, it's just a straight repro, so it's not the greatest example. The Monitor cart would probably be a better one but Harry has pretty much dropped 7800 programming in favor of the Lynx. There is a fair amount of additional documentation included with the Monitor cart but because it is still being sold, the documentation isn't available online. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBall Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 I disagree totally. The only thing holding people back from developing for the 7800 is desire. There is plenty of documentation available online at http://www.atari7800.org/manuals/Devcard.htm. a78sign is available to create the digital signature required by NTSC systems. MESS does an adequate job of emulating the system (although it is not perfect by any means). Chad has a working prototype of the Cuttle Cart II for system testing without an EPROM (or Eckhard's RAMcart). About the only thing missing are the PCBs and cases for actual sale (and the guys at www.atari7800.com may have those too). And Senso DX is a true homebrew. (Plus the demos I and other people have done.) And the 7800 is actually easier to program than the 2600! No cycle counting required for precise timing. A big chunk of the coding is simple data movement to build the display lists. And yes, I am working on an actual 7800 game myself. Lack of free time, not desire, is my roadblock. So if you want to program a 7800 homebrew, there isn't anything hold you back. And it sounds like the market is ripe too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 on a side note I'd love to see Thrust 2 released on the 7800 (And thats a challenge Thomas ) Nah, not for me. I never had a 7800, so that's probably the reason why I am not that interested. And that I still have some jobs for the 2600 to do. BTW: I never played Thrust 2 back then only on emulator a few months ago. And I was not very impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Thrust+ Platinum is more impressive for the fact it's that damn good on a 2600 anyway (better than a lot of other games on any more powerful consoles), just like Marble Craze. Why ruin the mystique by porting it to 7800? I doubt that many more features could be added to justify it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 I disagree totally. The only thing holding people back from developing for the 7800 is desire. There is plenty of documentation available Fair enough. I can't program worth anything so my opinion isn't worth much anyway. It's just what I've heard from potential 7800 programmers. I think the biggest complaint is not enough sample code. I am still looking forward to the first complete 7800 homebrew. (SensoDX isn't quite complete) As far as cases and PCB's go, O'shea's still seems to have plenty at $5 a piece. Not quite as good of a price as they used to be but still not bad. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory DG Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 Now that the Cuttle Cart 2 is out, it's time for some 7800 homebrews! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 I have a complete 7800 development kit (board, ST, disks), but I just don't have the time to do a game. I'd love to explore the 7800's possibilities some day though. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 I disagree totally. The only thing holding people back from developing for the 7800 is desire. That's certainly my case, but it's more complicated than that. I would love to try to homebrew for the 7800, but I have no hardware to test anything I were to try code for it. I've seen cases where a rom would work on an emulator but not when tested on hardware so I'd rather not work on a game with just the emulator to test it on just yet. That and Display List Lists scare me. -- Mord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 I have a complete 7800 development kit (board, ST, disks), but I just don't have the time to do a game. I'd love to explore the 7800's possibilities some day though. Tempest Mappy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBall Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 (edited) That's certainly my case, but it's more complicated than that. I would love to try to homebrew for the 7800, but I have no hardware to test anything I were to try code for it. I've seen cases where a rom would work on an emulator but not when tested on hardware so I'd rather not work on a game with just the emulator to test it on just yet. Especially with the CC2, there should be a sufficient number of people who will be willing to test out anything you code up. Working from an emulator (MESS, EMU7800 or even V7800) isn't that bad. About the only major gotcha is CPU usage during display time. That and Display List Lists scare me. DLLs and display lists aren't that bad, just a pain to create on the fly. The first step is to realize the 7800 DLL has nothing in common with the 5200 (very scary IHMO) display list. Check out http://ericball.atariage.com/balldemo.html for sample code. Edited April 18, 2005 by EricBall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godzilla Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 Well, I sure hope to one day see some more 7800 titles... whatever happened to the 'fixed' save mary & impossible mission that were supposedly coming out from atari7800.com, one wonders... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 Well, I sure hope to one day see some more 7800 titles... whatever happened to the 'fixed' save mary & impossible mission that were supposedly coming out from atari7800.com, one wonders... The Atari7800.com store was shut down and the stock was sold off on ebay/bidiots. The wasn't anything really fixed about Save Mary, it was just hacked to work on a 7800 game PCB. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godzilla Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 hmm so they actually did have them? Kind of annoying, as I pre-ordered every new title they were offering on their web page and they never got in touch with me... grrumble... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 I think they had one or two of each title except Impossible Mission. They were up for auction about a month or so ago. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 Especially with the CC2, there should be a sufficient number of people who will be willing to test out anything you code up. Working from an emulator (MESS, EMU7800 or even V7800) isn't that bad. About the only major gotcha is CPU usage during display time. If I had my own CC2, and a 7800 handy it would be far more convenient for me, but both are well out of my reach for the time being. I haven't given up on the idea of coding for the 7800, and I'm trying to keep up to date even with my limited net access, but it's proving to be quite a feat! DLLs and display lists aren't that bad, just a pain to create on the fly. The first step is to realize the 7800 DLL has nothing in common with the 5200 (very scary IHMO) display list. Check out [/url]http://www.atariage.com/users/ericball/balldemo.html[/url] for sample code. Downloaded that and a few other samples a while back to review, as with the maria.txt info file and a few other things. I have a good idea of the limitations and abilities of the beast, and truth be told if I could get my mind around the asm I could probably code something that could at least be considered half way descent. (Read: It wouldn't outright suck. ) Perhaps whenever I manage to get a new computer that could run an emulator at full speed and the like I'll give a 7800 game project a serious attempt, but until then I'm afraid I'm stuck trying to get the 2600 to do something useful. (And beyond a few fairly simple demos, that's failing as well! ) -- Mord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 ...if I could get my mind around the asm... i found cc65 to be very useful. especially construction display (list) lists is much more convenient. the quality of cc65's code isn't terribly good, though. when i find some time i'll put the robotfindskitten 7800 source code onto the net, but it needs to be cleaned up a bit first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 when i find some time i'll put the robotfindskitten 7800 source code onto the net, but it needs to be cleaned up a bit first. Have you been able to fix the bugs that were mentioned in the other thread? I just wanted to make sure I haven't missed a newer release. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 Have you been able to fix the bugs that were mentioned in the other thread? no. i'm currently building a ramona cart, so that i can test on real hardware myself. and i still don't know what garbage on the screen you were talking about in the other thread you told me it happens on emulators too, but i don't see anything (i'm using mess 0.82b) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 Have you been able to fix the bugs that were mentioned in the other thread? no. i'm currently building a ramona cart, so that i can test on real hardware myself. and i still don't know what garbage on the screen you were talking about in the other thread you told me it happens on emulators too, but i don't see anything (i'm using mess 0.82b) I'll try to check it out again tonight and maybe grab a screen shot. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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