1200XL M.U.L.E. Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 Is there a way to import (small) CSV files into SynCalc? Something tells me "no" but I've learned to never underestimate the infinite determination and creativity of the Atari community. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 SynCalc can export "DIF" "Data Interchange Format" which was the pre-CSV way of doing it - so I presume it should have an import function for that format too. A quick search found an online tool that claims to be able to convert to that format: https://www.files-conversion.com/spreadsheet/csv There's a good writeup about SynCalc here, with some notes from @luckybuck about importing from VisiCalc .VC files: https://atariwiki.org/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=SynCalc 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DjayBee Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Nezgar said: There's a good writeup about SynCalc here, with some notes from @luckybuck about importing from VisiCalc .VC files: One addition to this: Not only the protected originals, but my cracks are also able to call the VC-SC converter. You can find them from this post on down: https://atariage.com/forums/topic/208094-who-can-crack-this-one/?do=findComment&comment=3867528 Edited March 26, 2021 by DjayBee 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 (edited) On 3/25/2021 at 11:42 PM, Nezgar said: SynCalc can export "DIF" "Data Interchange Format" which was the pre-CSV way of doing it - so I presume it should have an import function for that format too. A quick search found an online tool that claims to be able to convert to that format: https://www.files-conversion.com/spreadsheet/csv There's a good writeup about SynCalc here, with some notes from @luckybuck about importing from VisiCalc .VC files: https://atariwiki.org/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=SynCalc Thank you, and @DjayBee for all of this. I have the original '83 versions myself, but according to the write-ups and memory available on the different computers, I'm surprised to find out I actually have more available ram for the program for my Incognito 800 in Axlon mode that even for my 1200XL 512K port B extended memory, even if base memory is 16K less. I haven't read through it all yet, but is it possible to set up a virtual drive .atr image that isn't bound to the 90K per disk barrier? I haven't had files go beyond this yet myself, but (still being a some-what noob to Syncalc) I've wondered what good having 245K of ram to use would be if you can only save up to 90K of it on a disk/image. Edited March 27, 2021 by Gunstar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1200XL M.U.L.E. Posted March 27, 2021 Author Share Posted March 27, 2021 (edited) @Nezgar Last night I tried converting some CSV files exported from Google Sheets but had mixed results. A single column of values failed conversion. Two column CSV files converted but SynCalc was unable to read it. I'm going to try again tonight. That Wiki page is pretty cool! @DjayBee Thanks for the link to your thread! I had no idea you cracked SynCalc. ? In the past I have been running one of the ATX files through AtariMax's APE and SIO2USB. Tonight I will try to make a bootable floppy from that ATR! @Gunstar Maybe all that extra memory gives more working space for creating the sheet, like copying/pasting, but when saved the file will be smaller? Just guessing here. I only have 64kB in my 1200XL and I haven't practically approached the limit. At the same time, I think the largest sheet is limited to 128 columns by 256 rows so there's only so much we stuff into one file. Would that theoretical maximum ever exceed 90kB? I do agree with you that the 90kB limit is goofy from today's point of view ... but this was 1985. ? Edited March 27, 2021 by 1200XL M.U.L.E. Additional response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+David_P Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 Well, Anything larger than 90K won't fit on a SS/SD disk, so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Gunstar said: I'm surprised to find out I actually have more available ram for the program for my Incognito 800 in Axlon mode that even for my 1200XL 512K port B extended memory, even if base memory is 16K less Absolutely. Ironic, but true! The Syncalc / A800 / AXLON (Incognito) combo provides the highest amount of working RAM (a least if we judge by what the app reports, though). Edited March 27, 2021 by Faicuai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 (edited) Apparently, it seems that Syncalc will also use the extra 4K of base memory for 52K, Assuming this is still used even if extended memory is available. I load it up under Incognito Colleen with 52K+Axlon 1024K later today and see what is what. I'm also curious to see if the OS+fastchip speeds of calculations too, from standard OS B. Edited March 28, 2021 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 18 hours ago, David_P said: Well, Anything larger than 90K won't fit on a SS/SD disk, so... If 90K is the limit for disk saves, then so be it. But it my be nice if even 130K/180K save disks could be used, even if a dream 245K ATR image can't be realized. All this available memory and possible disk space may never be needed by me anyway, but it's nice to know it's there to use and I'd sure love to be able to save to a disk image all that can be in memory. Unless there is a way to use more than one 90K disk/image for larger files. I wouldn't mind loading up several disk images into memory once a year for taxes or whatever, just so long as I can have the entire year of data in memory at once, assuming a couple hundred K at least for a full year of small business data. Or even quarterly or whatever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DjayBee Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 6 minutes ago, Gunstar said: If 90K is the limit for disk saves, then so be it. But it my be nice if even 130K/180K save disks could be used IIRC the embedded*) DOS is DOS 2.0, so probably not. *) SynCalc (like Synfile) is loaded into RAM as big blob which contains the program and the DOS. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1200XL M.U.L.E. Posted March 28, 2021 Author Share Posted March 28, 2021 (edited) Embedded DOS! I didn't even think of that. Of course, SynCalc needs to know how to read and write files, list directories, etc. It doesn't know how to do that by itself but DOS does. So, DOS has to be embedded with the program. How is DOS embedded in there? I don't know what is inside that blob. (Binary Large Object Block?) Is a disk image with stand alone with its own DOS.SYS, DUP.SYS, and AUTORUN.SYS files? Can it be replaced with something like DOS 2.5 to enable enhanced density disks? Edited March 28, 2021 by 1200XL M.U.L.E. Clarification of question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Hello guys You really should check out this page about SynCalc in the AtariWiki. It'll tell you more about what's possible memory wise. And try JAC!'s remark with your favorite translator app/site. Sincerely Mathy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DjayBee Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 4 hours ago, Mathy said: And try JAC!'s remark with your favorite translator app/site. Hi Mathy, this is exactly what I said. Syncalc loads like a blob and contains a DOS. Btw. today I finally wrote a program to find out what exactly is loaded to where. Unfortunately I couldn't find out yet, how to start it when loaded as a XEX using standard DOS 2.0, but I have hope. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 1 hour ago, DjayBee said: Hi Mathy, this is exactly what I said. Syncalc loads like a blob and contains a DOS. Btw. today I finally wrote a program to find out what exactly is loaded to where. Unfortunately I couldn't find out yet, how to start it when loaded as a XEX using standard DOS 2.0, but I have hope. That is a partial wish of mine, at least SDX can load DOS 2.0 files, so I could use the XEX to load from SDX or an SD 3.2 partion and use it with Snapshot*; still using a full 245K for Syncalc and the rest of 1MB memory for other software with Snapshot. even if I have to save to my 810. My full wish is to have all the Syn-series apps installed on and SDX/SD 3.2 APT partition on Incognito's CF card with Fat loader. But I still like using it as is with my real floppy drives if only for another excuse to use my Atari and drives. I've used Synfile+ now for a while, as a customer data base, etc. and I've been using the personal finance program 'Your Personal Net Worth' for personal and business, but I want to really start learning what I can do with Syncalc and spread-sheets. Especially since I've acquired quite a few disk images with Syncalc templates from various sources. I purchase original, complete copies of SynFile+, SynCalc and SynTrend (I've never tried Trend yet) from Ebay last year. all three for $25 + shipping. Mostly for the manuals with the nice ring binders so I don't have to look at the PC screen PDF or use up valuable ink and paper. Right now we have to use all these applications from real or virtual drives. Applications are one genre I'd rather have on an APT partition and use SpartaDOS (and Snapshot) I'd still rather play games and do graphics from my virtual and real floppy drives. *Snapshot first mentioned in Post #57 in this thread, with on-going replies: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DjayBee Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 (edited) Is anyone keen to test this? Syncalc 1985 48K+Axlon on (nearly) plain DOS 2.0S and DOS 2.0D (180k). This has NOT been tested beyond basic addition, file saving and starting ofd the Visicalc converter. So please don't feed it your tax declaration without a backup. It will work only on this exact version of DOS because it replaces several DOS routines with own code (NOTE, POINT, LOCK, UNLOCK, burst I/O, write DOS). The patch code has been added to the executable. But on top of that DOS 2.0 unfortunately changes VSERIN and VSEROR to a location which is overwritten by Syncalc. Therefore this had to be patched out directly in DOS.SYS. Otherwise the loaded DOS binaries are plain. I added sources for DOS as well, so you can check the changes yourself by diffing the files. Syncalc1985-48k-Axlon-SD.atr Syncalc1985-48k-Axlon-DD.atr DOS20S-patched.txt DOS20S-source.txt Edited March 31, 2021 by DjayBee 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1200XL M.U.L.E. Posted March 31, 2021 Author Share Posted March 31, 2021 @DjayBee This sound fantastic! Thanks for the work! 180kB disk support, yes? I will try this tonight on my system and report back. Hopefully nothing knocks my evening off course. I noticed you mentioned "48K + Axlon". It will be interesting to see what happens with a 64K system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckybuck Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 (edited) Incredible and outstanding! Tera-Thanks DjayBee. Wow, I need a break. That is a major step towards my visions years ago: SynCalc source code, independent from DOS 2.0, maybe with SpartaDOS, 4 MB RAM Atari, 16 MB hard disk drive... Would be even capable to make Trump's tax declaration, I am sure. DIF, please see here: https://atariwiki.org/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=VisiCalc Nezgar did it in #2: CSV -> DIF and from DIF to SynCalc. Mission accomplished. ? 90K limit should be at least updated to 360K with a XF551 disk drive on quad density. We will see... ? Edited April 1, 2021 by luckybuck 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1200XL M.U.L.E. Posted April 1, 2021 Author Share Posted April 1, 2021 I played around a bit with the DD version. Initial results are positive. I wrote the DD version to a physical disk. SynCalc booted just fine. I formatted a disk from the menu and then rebooted with MyDOS. Using MyDOS I copied my SynCalc files from a 90kB disk to the newly formatted 180kB disk. SynCalc was able to load every file successfully. I saved each file I loaded under a new name to fill up the disk. This essentially doubled my disk usage. Then I loaded the newly saved files. SynCalc did not have any problems reading all the files. So far, so good! This is excellent work, @DjayBee! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1200XL M.U.L.E. Posted April 1, 2021 Author Share Posted April 1, 2021 Another experiment. I formatted a 360kB disk in MyDOS and copied my SynCalc files to it. SynCalc was able to read the directory. The free sector count was garbled and only one or two of the filed could be read in. I did not necessarily expect this to work but I wanted to try it and see what happens. That's OK. Even SS, DD disks at 180kB is excellent. To get the full 360kB I can flip the disk over. All I need now is a disk notcher to cut the notch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckybuck Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 Great find! Thanks a lot. Next step would be 720 k disk... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DjayBee Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 (edited) Anything beside 90k and 180k in standard formats is not possible at the moment, because we depend on DOS 2.0 which supports only these two formats. ... unless somebody finds and modifies the calls from Syncalc to the patched code inside DOS to different (and currently unused) locations in RAM which I expect to be a big deal. Edited April 1, 2021 by DjayBee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckybuck Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 (edited) Ah, so a job for the SynCalc source code reverse engineering project here. – FastMath rountines form Charles, should increse the calculations, too. Btw. does someone owns the Newells FastChip ROM in version E from 1982 ? Just ROM... Just came by: https://products.groupdocs.app/conversion/csv-to-dif So, we can go back to Atari... Edited April 1, 2021 by luckybuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 (edited) Hello luckybuck 1 hour ago, luckybuck said: FastMath rountines form Charles, should increse the calculations, too. Btw. does someone owns the Newells FastChip ROM in version E from 1982 ? Just ROM... The FastChip source code here on Charles Marslett's site isn't what you are looking for? BTW Newell FastChip = Marslett code. Sincerely Mathy Edited April 1, 2021 by Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckybuck Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 Thanks, but what we need is: FastChip REVISION E, ADDED ASCII HEX DISPLAY ROUTINE, 4-MAR-82 all revision prior to E are available. Version E seems to be lost. Sadly, this is the one, free of all bugs & some hex dec routines, too. Maybe our friends from Poland can help here again? My vision, new OS for all 400/800/XL and XE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 2 hours ago, 1200XL M.U.L.E. said: Another experiment. I formatted a 360kB disk in MyDOS and copied my SynCalc files to it. SynCalc was able to read the directory. The free sector count was garbled and only one or two of the filed could be read in. I did not necessarily expect this to work but I wanted to try it and see what happens. That's OK. Even SS, DD disks at 180kB is excellent. To get the full 360kB I can flip the disk over. All I need now is a disk notcher to cut the notch! This is fantastic, all my drives are SS DD and I've notched disks and flipped them for decades; standard procedure, even with 90K disks which all of mine ae 180K flippies. Now it seems perfectly feasible to be able to have spread-sheets using at least 180K and saving the whole file to one disk. That's only 65K short of the 800+Axlon Syncalc memory limit of 245K. I'll do plenty of tests myself with my Incognito 800 in Colleen mode with 48/52K main memory and one megabyte Axlon with Happy 1050's and Indus GT's 180K drives. I'll also try both Colleen OS options of OSB and OSB + Fastchip too. But I am currently very busy with my landscaping business, with a new season on top of me. So it will be probably Saturday night or Sunday before I get a chance. Now I'm off back to work getting ready for work tomorrow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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