+jedimatt42 Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 I've got a board without the PAL.. would like to make it functional again... before I reverse engineer this, do we already have the equations that could be translated to a GAL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jedimatt42 Posted April 11, 2021 Author Share Posted April 11, 2021 (edited) I've mapped out the following pinout for the PAL +------+ DBIN -> (1) (24) -- VCC AMC -> (2) (23) <- MEMEN* AMA -> (3) (22) -> LED* AMB -> (4) (21) -> SBE A1 -> (5) (20) -> 74'245-DIR A0 -> (6) (19) -> SPCH_A5 A3 -> (7) (18) -> SPCH_A15 A2 -> (8) (17) -> 74'245-OE A5 -> (9) (16) -> RBDENA A4 -> (10) (15) -> READY A15 -> (11) (14) <- SPCH_READY (EDIT) GND -- (12) (13) -- NC +------+ Edited April 11, 2021 by jedimatt42 Pin 14 is input from speech synth READY signal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jedimatt42 Posted April 11, 2021 Author Share Posted April 11, 2021 (edited) My first guess: SBE <= !MEMEN && A0..A4 == 0b10010 && !A15 && AMA..AMC == 0b111 && !(A5 && DBIN) LED <= !SBE SPCH_A5 <= A5 SPCH_A15 <= A15 74'245-OE <= !SBE 74'245-DIR <= DBIN RBDENA <= !SBE RBDENA.OE <= !SBE READY <= This one surprises me, so probably wrong.. ( I'll pretend this is for purposes of buffering output from synth's READY ) It is not apparent to me why A5 is buffered through the PAL, unless it is also worked into something else... combined with DBIN for agreement? Edited April 17, 2021 by jedimatt42 Wisdom from FarmerPotato, also I forgot MEMEN, and RBDENA-tristate, and NAND is not the same as not-equals, and it doesn't work still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jedimatt42 Posted April 12, 2021 Author Share Posted April 12, 2021 First blush doesn't work But why would it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+FarmerPotato Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, jedimatt42 said: It is not apparent to me why A5 is buffered through the PAL, unless it is also worked into something else... combined with DBIN for agreement? Think of read before write. SBE must not activate during a read from the write address. A5 distinguishes 9000 from 9400. Its why we have separate blocks for read and write. I wondered why WE is not in there. Guess it goes straight to the 5200? Edited April 12, 2021 by FarmerPotato 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jedimatt42 Posted April 12, 2021 Author Share Posted April 12, 2021 I can hard code the LED on ( 'b'0 ) so that works.. I think the '245 dir might be inverse of DBIN. But I'm tired, so I'll try that tomorrow. If I force READY to 'b'0, I get the nice F18A init screen since no CPU written to it yet. But I have bus clash right now... Besided having forgotten A5 vs DBIN, I had forgotten the MEMEN* signal too LOL... getting closer. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shift838 Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 On 4/12/2021 at 1:15 AM, jedimatt42 said: I can hard code the LED on ( 'b'0 ) so that works.. I think the '245 dir might be inverse of DBIN. But I'm tired, so I'll try that tomorrow. If I force READY to 'b'0, I get the nice F18A init screen since no CPU written to it yet. But I have bus clash right now... Besided having forgotten A5 vs DBIN, I had forgotten the MEMEN* signal too LOL... getting closer. every get any progress on this? I also have a Rave99 card without a PAL and one with it. I don't think I have anything that will read the contents though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+dhe Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 >>Rave99 card without a PAL Why would a Rave99 card not have a PAL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritz442 Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 19 hours ago, Shift838 said: every get any progress on this? I also have a Rave99 card without a PAL and one with it. I don't think I have anything that will read the contents though. You can manually read the PAL as I did with the other ones, BUT you need a good working PAL chip and card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jedimatt42 Posted October 27, 2021 Author Share Posted October 27, 2021 I don't have one of the PALs. I had been working from a board I found some other faults with. I've just been using the design theory documented on ti-tech-pages with a metered out mapping of the socket and trying to rebuild the gap in wincupl. I backlogged this to finish the year focused on ForceCommand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jedimatt42 Posted October 27, 2021 Author Share Posted October 27, 2021 17 hours ago, dhe said: >>Rave99 card without a PAL Why would a Rave99 card not have a PAL? I had a good card with a SNUG PAL in it. And a bad card with a 4A PAL. I put the working combo together and gifted it to someone. That left me the bad card which I believe is repaired, except the SNUG PAL doesn't work in a 4A. I could probably borrow a good PAL from my pal Arcade shopper, but now I am emotionally attached to the challenge. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shift838 Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 4 hours ago, Fritz442 said: You can manually read the PAL as I did with the other ones, BUT you need a good working PAL chip and card. can the pal be read with a TL866II-Plus? if not what can read it. I have a working card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritz442 Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Shift838 said: can the pal be read with a TL866II-Plus? if not what can read it. I have a working card. No, (if it's locked) it must be manually decoded ie: cycling all inputs and checking all outputs. That's how I did all the others I decoded. Edited October 27, 2021 by Fritz442 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritz442 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 (edited) Here's the setup I used to decode all the PAL12L6 chips I did. And just moved leads around to do the PAL16L8's. There's 4 more switches and LED's on the Powerace. The LED's are tied to the outputs. Edited October 28, 2021 by Fritz442 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+dhe Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 I had that very same DSL Modem! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F.G. Kaal Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 I replaced the PAL for a GAL 20V8 once (1996) on a Rave99 card. Here are the equations and other files for that. TISPEECH.EQN TISPEECH.JED TISPEECH.LOG 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 That makes this card reprodicible. . .I will work on a new layout with the AMA/B/C mod on it and ask Richard Bell if he's interested in doing a run of them, since he is the current owner of the IP for the card. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jedimatt42 Posted December 21, 2021 Author Share Posted December 21, 2021 48 minutes ago, Ksarul said: That makes this card reprodicible. . .I will work on a new layout with the AMA/B/C mod on it and ask Richard Bell if he's interested in doing a run of them, since he is the current owner of the IP for the card. If he was already the IP owner, shouldn't he already possess the knowledge represented by these files? Does he actually have possession of IP? Such as design documents? These equations and the boards in hand that I've seen already account for AMA/B/C... Are you talking about the further GENMOD decoding of AMD/E? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 When Rave99 closed their doors, Cecure Electronics obtained the rights to the Rave99 products. When Cecure closed up shop, they sold their entire remaining stock and the rights to it to Richard Bell. Unfortunately, one of the storage units containing a lot of the stock/documents Richard purchased was impounded and cleared out by the storage unit owner because of some issues with the storage payments (IIRC). A lot of stuff was lost in that transfer. Cecure had the PAL equations, as they did at least one run of the boards sometime around 1995 or so. I know Richard has some programmed PALs, he may also have the necessary JEDEC files buried in the mass of things he received from Cecure. Having this set in the wild serves two purposes--it allows folks to repair the one part of the card that wasn't readily available and it gives me the last puzzle piece I needed to make a new board layout for Richard. As to the decoding, adding AMD/E would be a good idea to enhance compatibility. . . 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jedimatt42 Posted December 22, 2021 Author Share Posted December 22, 2021 Well, I don't have a G20V8 on hand, but I have a G22V10, which I've been able to program from Fred's TISPEECH.EQN after translating it to WinCUPL, and it partially works. I had to tristate the RDYO signal out of the GAL to the PEB BUS. I'm setting it to high impedance unless SBE is high. That doesn't seem 100% correct yet though. I can run Parsec and Bigfoot and my gcc example for playing a speech sample... but both XB CALL SAY and fbForth SAY using the ROM vocabulary fails with garbled sound, and sometimes hangs. I do have some GAL20V8's on a boat... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shift838 Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 I've been working with @Fritz442 and we have burned a GAL20V8 with some updated code. I have tested this code on my Rave99 and it all appears to be working without any modifications to the board. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jedimatt42 Posted December 23, 2021 Author Share Posted December 23, 2021 What is the logical difference between your's @Shift838 and Fred's? pins 14 and 15 are about the speech READY signal forwarding to the PEB bus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritz442 Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 Basically, pin 15 was not in a high-impedance state like pin 16 was. Input pin 14 was ok, so pin 15 was the issue. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F.G. Kaal Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 On 12/23/2021 at 11:50 PM, Fritz442 said: Basically, pin 15 was not in a high-impedance state like pin 16 was. Input pin 14 was ok, so pin 15 was the issue. It was a long time ago I did this. I see on that particular Rave PCB that pin 14 and 15 of the GAL are not connected to the PCB but pin 14 and 15 on the PCB are shorted. I can't remember what the issue was here. I suppose that this RDYO = RDYI * SBE RDYO.trst = !RDYI + !SBE will solve that. New knowlegde after 27 years !! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jedimatt42 Posted January 3, 2022 Author Share Posted January 3, 2022 I'm surprised you need to consider the SBE signal on the RDY logic... There is a pull-up in the GAL on RDYI, so it is provided LOW or high-impedance (which the GAL drives to HIGH internally) So I would think the equivalent to the solder bridge would have been more simply: RDYO = 'b'0 RDYO.trst = !RDYI I think this is the language Fred was using: https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_mmipalasmpeJul87_18634780/page/n87/mode/2up ) If the synthesizer is asserting ready-LOW then output LOW, otherwise hold high-impedance. What am I missing? Is the SBE term necessary, or is it optimizing so that the CPU can continue to access anything but the speech while the synth asserts ready-LOW? (I'm not saying my suggestion works, I'm saying I want to learn more) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.