Steven Pendleton Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 Today I ordered a "cheap" Sega VGA box that I managed to find on Surugaya's website, as I have heard that this remains the best VGA box for the system. Anybody tried any other VGA boxes or compared them to the Sega one? I've seen Digital Foundry's comparison and the Sega one seems the best out of those, but there are a lot more VGA boxes out there and I am looking for the best no-cut option available, which means no DCDigital for me. My monitor does have a VGA input, so I'll try it with both that and the OSSC. I'd basically retired the OSSC after getting the RetroTINK, but I specifically kept it in case I got a VGA box for Dreamcast, so I'll definitely be sure to try it to see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 Only VGA solutions I've had in the past were the Tomee branded VGA cable. It worked well, but I had some odd thing going on where when I used it, I was getting sections on the upper portion of the screen that were light grey instead of black. But it was only on the borders outside of the actual picture display from the DC? Kinda hard to explain. Might be more an issue with the OSSC vs the TV but anyway. The other VGA cable was some generic looking thing that I've had for nearly 20 years. Just has a generic Dreamcast VGA sticker on the top of the box that is inline on the cable. It actually produces better results than the Tomee cable, but it didn't have audio RCA jacks on it like the Tomee cable so I had to use additional adapters etc. to get audio output. Oh wow, I just found an old article review on the older cable I was just talking about. Apparently it was available through racketboy back in the day. I got mine for free from a vendor that was getting out of selling DC stuff in the early 2000s. http://gamingthroughtheages.blogspot.com/2011/04/review-dreamcast-vga-adapter.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Pendleton Posted September 29, 2021 Author Share Posted September 29, 2021 14 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said: Only VGA solutions I've had in the past were the Tomee branded VGA cable. It worked well, but I had some odd thing going on where when I used it, I was getting sections on the upper portion of the screen that were light grey instead of black. But it was only on the borders outside of the actual picture display from the DC? Kinda hard to explain. Might be more an issue with the OSSC vs the TV but anyway. The other VGA cable was some generic looking thing that I've had for nearly 20 years. Just has a generic Dreamcast VGA sticker on the top of the box that is inline on the cable. It actually produces better results than the Tomee cable, but it didn't have audio RCA jacks on it like the Tomee cable so I had to use additional adapters etc. to get audio output. Oh wow, I just found an old article review on the older cable I was just talking about. Apparently it was available through racketboy back in the day. I got mine for free from a vendor that was getting out of selling DC stuff in the early 2000s. http://gamingthroughtheages.blogspot.com/2011/04/review-dreamcast-vga-adapter.html That sounds really weird. The OSSC has a DTV setting that you can use with the Dreamcast to correct the aspect ratio and stuff, but I'm not sure if it would fix that specific issue. I just now realized that I have no idea where I put my VGA cables. I should probably go look for them before my VGA box arrives... Anyway, I've recently become rather annoyed with the Akura because it's starting to become less reliable. Now sometimes I will turn my Dreamcast on and get static just like the kind you'd see on a CRT for some reason, so I have to unplug it and plug it in again while the Dreamcast is on to get it to work. What a pile of junk. That's partially why I'm moving to VGA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Pendleton Posted October 1, 2021 Author Share Posted October 1, 2021 Alright, it seems that my Akura doesn't want to give me anything but static. lol screw this piece of trash. Surugaya finally shipped my VGA box today, but it unfortunately looks like I'll have to finish Sakura Taisen using S-video this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 If I switch the OSSC to DTV mode, then I lose my audio input for that input source. So I have to leave all of that as HDMI even though I'm not using that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Pendleton Posted October 2, 2021 Author Share Posted October 2, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said: If I switch the OSSC to DTV mode, then I lose my audio input for that input source. So I have to leave all of that as HDMI even though I'm not using that. I'm confused... OSSC in DTV mode gives you no audio so you leave it in HDMI? I wasn't aware of the OSSC having any other outputs other than HDMI... Should I get a VGA cable with a 3.5mm audio thing? I don't have one of those, but they are easy to get. I suppose I can also just use a 3.5mm to 3.5mm from the VGA box to the OSSC, as I do have a ton of those in my house. Edited October 2, 2021 by Steven Pendleton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 It does only have HDMI output, but there is a setting to put it into DVI mode. I think that is for use with an adapter or something perhaps? Not messed with it other than leaving it in that mode once and wondering why the heck I wasn't getting any audio from whatever I was trying to use at the time. And yes, I actually use a RCA stereo to 3.5mm cable from my Extron to the OSSC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Pendleton Posted October 2, 2021 Author Share Posted October 2, 2021 (edited) 52 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said: It does only have HDMI output, but there is a setting to put it into DVI mode. I think that is for use with an adapter or something perhaps? Not messed with it other than leaving it in that mode once and wondering why the heck I wasn't getting any audio from whatever I was trying to use at the time. And yes, I actually use a RCA stereo to 3.5mm cable from my Extron to the OSSC. Alright, I will try the 3.5mm audio cable with the VGA box's 3.5mm audio out and the OSSC's 3.5mm audio input if I don't get any sound. Still waiting for the VGA box, so hopefully it gets here soon. I hope my monitor likes the DTV mode on the OSSC. It hates the special PSP mode and the 5x line multiply mode and neither of those work, so hopefully the DTV mode works. If not, I suppose I will have to use the VGA input on my monitor. Edited October 2, 2021 by Steven Pendleton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Pendleton Posted October 3, 2021 Author Share Posted October 3, 2021 (edited) @-^CrossBow^- So I feel like a fool for asking this, but I just got my VGA box and it works fine on my monitor, although I don't get audio without the 3.5mm cable plugged in, but I get absolutely nothing on the OSSC. Am I missing something here? 3 seconds later, I fixed it. Disregard lol Alright, disregard the disregard. No audio even with the 3.5mm plugged in. Any audio settings I should have the OSSC set to? lol fixed it. Wrong audio input... Edited October 3, 2021 by Steven Pendleton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiLic0ne t0aD Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 I've never tried a VGA box.. Just a VGA cable, which I run into an OSSC. Does the box work better or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Pendleton Posted October 15, 2021 Author Share Posted October 15, 2021 On 10/14/2021 at 1:34 PM, SiLic0ne t0aD said: I've never tried a VGA box.. Just a VGA cable, which I run into an OSSC. Does the box work better or something? The official Sega VGA box is supposedly the single best analog solution for Dreamcast. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiLic0ne t0aD Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 Tough to come by nowadays, unfortunately. Expensive as well. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Pendleton Posted October 16, 2021 Author Share Posted October 16, 2021 You kind of have to be lucky, but if you are, you can find them for okay prices. I bought mine for 7500 yen, which is still cheaper than the most expensive Beharbros VGA box but still superior from what I have seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juansolo Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 On 10/15/2021 at 10:15 AM, Steven Pendleton said: The official Sega VGA box is supposedly the single best analog solution for Dreamcast. I used to have one back in the day. Replaced it with a Hanzo clone that I still run. It adds some useful features. I believe the BaharBros (the originators of the Hanzo) do more feature rich ones these days also. Worth seeing what they've got: https://www.beharbros.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Pendleton Posted November 1, 2021 Author Share Posted November 1, 2021 8 minutes ago, juansolo said: I used to have one back in the day. Replaced it with a Hanzo clone that I still run. It adds some useful features. I believe the BaharBros (the originators of the Hanzo) do more feature rich ones these days also. Worth seeing what they've got: https://www.beharbros.com The color is worse on the Beharbros products than on the Sega VGA box, though. The Sega one apparently still is not perfect, but it's better than the Beharbros ones. DCDigital is the best option for video that the Dreamcast has, but that unfortunately won't help for analog video. I think DCDigital is also sold out with its restock time being unknown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juansolo Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 Can't say I noticed that when I swapped. I'm running it directly into a LaCie Electron Blue monitor also so it's not like it's running into a cheap display. IIRC the Toro replaced the Hanzo which added dual outputs like the Sega one (I don't need that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 On 11/1/2021 at 2:45 AM, Steven Pendleton said: The color is worse on the Beharbros products than on the Sega VGA box, though. The Sega one apparently still is not perfect, but it's better than the Beharbros ones. DCDigital is the best option for video that the Dreamcast has, but that unfortunately won't help for analog video. I think DCDigital is also sold out with its restock time being unknown. Why do you say this? It doesn't disable the analog video output? You could still use an actual VGA box or s-video or composite...if you really wanted to. But aside from the DCDigital, the next best option will likely be the HDRetrovision cables for the DC if that ever gets released. But I'm not sure how that will work with the games that don't support the VGA modes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Pendleton Posted November 6, 2021 Author Share Posted November 6, 2021 25 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said: Why do you say this? It doesn't disable the analog video output? You could still use an actual VGA box or s-video or composite...if you really wanted to. But aside from the DCDigital, the next best option will likely be the HDRetrovision cables for the DC if that ever gets released. But I'm not sure how that will work with the games that don't support the VGA modes. Because the DCDigital doesn't improve the analog video at all as far as I know, leaving the Sega VGA box as the best analog option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 3 minutes ago, Steven Pendleton said: Because the DCDigital doesn't improve the analog video at all as far as I know, leaving the Sega VGA box as the best analog option. I don't know about that. You set it to cable select for the non VGA supported games and it still comes through the HDMI but does look fuzzier as it is essentially scaling the 480i resolution at that point I believe. Either way I'm very glad to have installed the DCDigital into mine and cannot see myself ever wanting to not use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juansolo Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 I'm confused as to why you're trying to improve the analogue RGB signal. Both 15khz and 31khz are made inside the console and depending on what you're plugging it into, really you need to do very little with it. Just to switch it into the correct mode for your display and use some decent wires for the most part. You can't exactly improve it with an external box as it's already chewing on that signal. You can filter it I suppose, but it doesn't need it. Using a digital out and converting it back to analogue would introduce lag, and I'd be genuinely surprised if the results were better in PQ terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 The DCDigital has a mode you can select on it called Cable Select and it basically drops back down to the standard DC resolutions for the games that didn't support the VGA outputs. It is still converting that signal and acting like a line doubler at that point so you can still view everything through the HDMI output that is installed into the DC. Anyway, I have it set to 960p on the output as that is the one that fills most of my display as 1080P leaves borders on all sides for some reason. But if I want to play something that doesn't support it, then I change the mode on the DCDigital to cable select so I can still play said game in as clear as manner as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Pendleton Posted November 8, 2021 Author Share Posted November 8, 2021 On 11/7/2021 at 5:17 AM, juansolo said: I'm confused as to why you're trying to improve the analogue RGB signal. Both 15khz and 31khz are made inside the console and depending on what you're plugging it into, really you need to do very little with it. Just to switch it into the correct mode for your display and use some decent wires for the most part. You can't exactly improve it with an external box as it's already chewing on that signal. You can filter it I suppose, but it doesn't need it. Using a digital out and converting it back to analogue would introduce lag, and I'd be genuinely surprised if the results were better in PQ terms. You can't make it better with an external box, but you can certainly make it worse. From Digital Foundry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 Well from the pictures you posted above, I prefer the image from the DCDigtal on the left as it has better overall contrast and detail. Also since it is a native HDMI signal at that point that is being generated, it doesn't have any lag or introduce any anomalies that I've found since it can go straight to the AV receiver and to my TV, which is exactly how mine is connected. So yeah getting VGA output that is properly scaled and not having to be converted to work on HDMI and doesn't require me to mess with any cable swaps is a good way to go to play all of the games in the best quality I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Pendleton Posted November 9, 2021 Author Share Posted November 9, 2021 (edited) Unfortunately, DCDigital is sold out. I have been considering getting one if/when it gets restocked, but I'll also need to buy a new case for my Dreamcast because I'm not cutting holes in my beautiful Japanese launch Dreamcast. I also have never even seen soldering equipment in real life and the installation is apparently difficult, which means I absolutely cannot do it myself with my current skill level of less than nothing, so I also need to find someone to install it for me. Edited November 9, 2021 by Steven Pendleton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 3 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said: Unfortunately, DCDigital is sold out. I have been considering getting one if/when it gets restocked, but I'll also need to buy a new case for my Dreamcast because I'm not cutting holes in my beautiful Japanese launch Dreamcast. I also have never even seen soldering equipment in real life and the installation is apparently difficult, which means I absolutely cannot do it myself with my current skill level of less than nothing, so I also need to find someone to install it for me. Yes I can understand all of this. I'm pretty handy with a soldering iron but even I was nervous about installing this kit and I'm not as experienced with SMD stuff. So yes if you don't have the right tools, this is absolutely NOT a job for beginners and it should be tasked with someone experienced with installing these or similar work. As for the holes to drill, yes there are few if you want things secured in place. I did see where one guy used a heat gun to lift the sticker off the bottom and used counter sunk screws so that once he had the DCDigital board installed, after applying the sticker back on, you could not even see that screws were used to anchor it in place. The small hole you make in the back is pretty easy to make since the kit comes with a 3d printed guide you use to drill in the initial holes to get started and then you can use a sharp hobby knife to carefully carve the rest of the opening out and make it square or use small files like I have to do that. It uses a micro HDMI output not a full sized one, so the hole isn't as big as you might initially think. I installed mine into my black sports model DC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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