The Atari VCS Controversies Thread

[barnrk]

So I get all my television thru streaming services like Sling, Philo, Netflix. I use a Roku streaming stick and can install apps for pretty much any streaming service out there. Will the VCS provide this functionality? Does that require each service to provide a VCS compatible app? I did some searching but only saw references to streaming games.

 

Good question. I would imagine that if these are currently available through Ubuntu we should be alright. If not, I'm not holding my breath.

[Flojomojo]

Good question. I would imagine that if these are currently available through Ubuntu we should be alright. If not, I'm not holding my breath.

 

If they work in a web browser, they'll work on this ...

 

if you want to run your videos thru a web browser, of course

[zzip]

If they work in a web browser, they'll work on this ...

 

if you want to run your videos thru a web browser, of course

Yeah, it will be interesting If they get app versions of these services similar to other consoles. For a living room console box, you want something that can be easily navigated with a joystick. Linux web browsers weren't built for that. (unless they provide a special version that can)

[Flojomojo]

Until they do, there are plenty of workarounds! Since HBO Go no longer works in Firefox and Chrome won't work either ...

 

 

Firefox version 52 doesn't support NPAPI anymore. Eliding the technical details, this means that HBO Nordic won't work on the native Firefox anymore. After a couple of hours of trying different things, I got HBO Nordic to work by doing the following.

Install Wine and PlayOnLinux by typing on the bash command line:

Open Ubuntu's "Software" application, search for the "Configure Wine" program, and install it.

Run the "Configure Wine" program, and in it, configure the Windows version to be Windows 8. (Not sure if this is necessary, but it's what I did.)

Run the PlayOnLinux program. Select the "Internet" icon in the top row, and then:

• Select the Firefox program.
• Click "Install" and follow the instructions.
• Choose to also install Flash.
• During the installation, you might be prompted for downloading missing packages. Choose to download them.

After Firefox has been installed as a Windows program, run it via PlayOnLinux.

Surf to HBO Nordic and sign in. The programmes should now play.

On 2017-07-18, edited to add:

That solution soon broke. I deinstalled and reinstalled everything, and it worked for the duration of playing one episode, and then broke again. I gave up on using Linux to watch HBO, and took into use an Android pad I had lying around.

 

Three cheers for the "Open Linux Sandbox!"

 

Because nothing says "the original Atari experience" like

wget https://dl.winehq.org/wine-builds/Release.key
sudo apt-key add Release.key
sudo apt-add-repository 'https://dl.winehq.org/wine-builds/ubuntu/'
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install wine cabextract playonlinux

[tep392]

Yeah, it will be interesting If they get app versions of these services similar to other consoles. For a living room console box, you want something that can be easily navigated with a joystick. Linux web browsers weren't built for that. (unless they provide a special version that can)

Exactly. Web browers apps generally aren't designed to navigating with a joystick or tv remote. The apps designed to run on the Roku and similar streaming devices are optimized for their remotes. Anything less than that is just a PITA. I may as well just switch inputs between the VCS and my streaming device to go back and forth. My OTA DVR even has a Roku app so I can control it with the Roku. If the Atari folks are smart they will be working with the streaming content providers and provide seamless interface for the users to work with.

[JBerel]

So for the FAQ portion of this thread, I gotta ask why they don't just put Windows 10 on this thing since they can license it for free on these kind of devices? I don't expect anything from them on this since they think a free Linux distro is a selling point for some reason. They could always image them with dual boot to make everybody happy, then support the other 60-90% of games already out there, plus everything on the Windows app store which would include supported streaming apps for virtually everything. You'd also have a true "sandbox" to run whatever you want. They can boot direct to their front end seamlessly under either OS and provide the option to boot into either OS as simple as running Wii mode on the WiiU or similar. I know someone will get pissy just at the suggestion, but why wouldn't you include a free license for the mainstream commercial OS along with an open source OS. Whatever.

[Flojomojo]

So for the FAQ portion of this thread, I gotta ask why they don't just put Windows 10 on this thing since they can license it for free on these kind of devices? I don't expect anything from them on this since they think a free Linux distro is a selling point for some reason. They could always image them with dual boot to make everybody happy, then support the other 60-90% of games already out there, plus everything on the Windows app store which would include supported streaming apps for virtually everything. You'd also have a true "sandbox" to run whatever you want. They can boot direct to their front end seamlessly under either OS and provide the option to boot into either OS as simple as running Wii mode on the WiiU or similar. I know someone will get pissy just at the suggestion, but why wouldn't you include a free license for the mainstream commercial OS along with an open source OS. Whatever.

 

Because

 

- they've chosen to roll with a 32GB eMMC storage device, which isn't really sufficient for modern Windows (as we've seen with tablets and low end notebooks since "Windows 8.1 with Bing")

- Windows isn't free

- Linux gives them a faint whiff of rebel-hacker mystique which maybe sorta works on a few dozen people who haven't thought it through

[Mockduck]

 

The joystick pole rotates. The Atari UI store uses that to get around. That's the paddle. Also there is a setting to make the button left or right handed. I just wish they'd have a 2nd fire button (the 5200 has games that use the 2nd button). Think of games like scramble or super cobra where you fire with 1 button and drop bombs with the 2nd button.

 

I hope this is accurate, as that would be cool (although I'd still prefer a more knob-like paddle controller). Where is the source on this info? If so I'd love to add it to the FAQ in the OP.

[Dr Manhattan]

The joystick pole rotates. The Atari UI store uses that to get around. That's the paddle.

 

I hope this isn't true because that doesn't sound comfortable to use at all.

[JBerel]

There's no evidence to that. There's also no evidence that the stick shown is even operational at this point at all, or that it's not a mushy mess of goo.

[PowerDubs]

 

I hope this isn't true because that doesn't sound comfortable to use at all.

 

Personally I dont think I would do that for many reasons over complicates the design, implementation, reliability, and most importantly the cost both to produce and try to sell it for.

 

I think just having another retro inspired version of real actual paddles would be a much better idea.

[JBerel]

 

Because

 

- they've chosen to roll with a 32GB eMMC storage device, which isn't really sufficient for modern Windows (as we've seen with tablets and low end notebooks since "Windows 8.1 with Bing")

- Windows isn't free

- Linux gives them a faint whiff of rebel-hacker mystique which maybe sorta works on a few dozen people who haven't thought it through

 

I just looked it up again and it looks like Microsoft licensing on Windows 10 is free for all-in-one devices with less than 4GB memory and 32GB or less of storage. No hard drives or optical drives are allowed.

Atari is using a pretty feeble system like that, so I still maintain it would be eligible for the free OEM license. Whatevs.

[jaybird3rd]

The joystick pole rotates. The Atari UI store uses that to get around. That's the paddle.

Do we have any independent confirmation of this? All I recall seeing is this animated GIF ...

 

... which kinda makes it look like the handle can rotate. I hope there's more behind this claim than that, because it would be a pretty wild leap to infer from this GIF alone that not only does the joystick handle definitely rotate, but that it can also be used as a paddle and that the paddle is used for UI navigation (which sounds totally uncomfortable and non-intuitive, but that's a separate issue). In "Atari"'s short video about it, there is no mention of a rotating joystick handle, nor is anyone shown using it that way, so I'm curious to know where this claim comes from.

[Flojomojo]

I just looked it up again and it looks like Microsoft licensing on Windows 10 is free for all-in-one devices with less than 4GB memory and 32GB or less of storage. No hard drives or optical drives are allowed.

Atari is using a pretty feeble system like that, so I still maintain it would be eligible for the free OEM license. Whatevs.

 

Have you tried to use Windows 10 on a 32GB eMMC?

 

I have. It sucks -- Windows updates are BIG and not optimized for space.

 

Linux is a better choice, by far ... unless you want to use the machine for games.

[jaybird3rd]

Have you tried to use Windows 10 on a 32GB eMMC?

 

I have. It sucks -- Windows updates are BIG and not optimized for space.

 

Linux is a better choice, by far ... unless you want to use the machine for games.

The only modern version of Windows that would comfortably fit into such a small footprint is Windows IoT Core. You can squeeze a minimal installation onto a 16GB SD card, but Windows IoT is far too limited for a game console; it only supports certain SoCs and (as far as I know) doesn't yet support accelerated graphics.

 

I'm reminded of the RetroVGS days, specifically John Carlsen's weird kitchen table demo showing blurry footage of some sort of GUI running on whatever super-secret board he was hiding under the Jaguar shell. I can only assume that it was a canned distribution of Linux. It makes me wonder yet again why so many people want a whole new console just so they can finally have a Linux-based system; if Mr. "Power Goes In, Video Comes Out" Carlsen could get Linux working on his kitchen table, it can't be that hard.

[Flojomojo]

The only modern version of Windows that would comfortably fit into such a small footprint is Windows IoT Core. You can squeeze a minimal installation onto a 16GB SD card, but Windows IoT is far too limited for a game console; it only supports certain SoCs and (as far as I know) doesn't yet support accelerated graphics.

 

I'm reminded of the RetroVGS days, specifically John Carlsen's

showing blurry footage of some sort of GUI running on whatever super-secret board he was hiding under the Jaguar shell. I can only assume that it was a canned distribution of Linux. It makes me wonder yet again why so many people want a whole new console just so they can finally have a Linux-based system; if Mr. "Power Goes In, Video Comes Out" Carlsen could get Linux working on his kitchen table, it can't be that hard.

 

Oh, Windows 10 fits ... there are still a bunch of netbooks and funny little tablets that ship this way ... they're fine until the first big Windows update, then BAM. All the complaints about cheap hardware come down to running out of usable space in the 32GB eMMC partition for Windows updates. The 90 day warranty has typically expired by this point. A smart fella can scoop these up on Ebay for cheap and easily load Linux onto them from flash media, which makes them usable again.

 

Just not for very good game machines ... except for emulation, which runs on a potato.

[JBerel]

Yeah, the updates will probably be a pain in the ass which is why it's free, but this whole Linux thing is ever more weird. Folks supposedly are clamoring for an open Linux platform for some reason. If they can't boot Linux on their own instead of Atari SA spoon feeding it to them, I don't know what the heck they think they're going to do with it.

 

And on the stick. To date the only thing we know is the lights on the ring turn red and the stick moved around. That's it. Every bit of "gameplay" footage has already been revealed to be running from another computer, a Betamax player, or inserted in post while somebody wiggles the stick randomly in front of a blank screen most likely. I've not seen anything showing it actually being used.

[Keatah]

Yeah, the updates will probably be a pain in the ass which is why it's free, but this whole Linux thing is ever more weird. Folks supposedly are clamoring for an open Linux platform for some reason. If they can't boot Linux on their own instead of Atari SA spoon feeding it to them, I don't know what the heck they think they're going to do with it.

 

Maybe they think Linux will be "made easy" if it's sold on retail product like a game console. And again, Linux has an image of small-brother instead of Big Brother. What they don't tell you is the Linux platform is fragmented when it comes to desktops (which this product is) and you need technical chops to do anything with it. And Linux is going the way of constant updates and all that. So even that old advantage is lost.

[BiffsGamingVideos]

Edited June 7, 2018 by BiffsGamingVideos

[BiffsGamingVideos]

Edited June 7, 2018 by BiffsGamingVideos

[BiffsGamingVideos]

Here is one mention of the rotating joystick from Cnet March 21, 2018.

 

https://www.cnet.com/news/ataribox-atari-vcs-console-linux-hands-on-pc/

 

"One's a modernized Bluetooth version of Atari's classic joystick -- the joystick rotates to double as a classic Atari paddle"

 

=======================================================

Here is another mention from game informer march 27, 2018:

 

https://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2018/03/27/an-up-close-look-atari-new-console-vcs.aspx

 

"Two controllers were also in the private room Atari based its GDC operations out of. The first controller was slicker rendition of the classic Atari joystick form-factor (with lights that illuminated in the direction you tilt the stick). In addition, the stick rotates to work with games that originally required a paddle controller."

Edited June 7, 2018 by BiffsGamingVideos

[JBerel]

I'm happy to be proven wrong about the stick/paddle or not. I personally don't believe they even have a working version yet, so as with the rest, they can make any claim they'd like. I've always suspected it's just another mockup with nothing but lights. That would probably have a twisting stick if there are no innards. As soon as someone does more than mime with it in front of a bogus gameplay video, let us all know.

 

Otherwise, everything's just speculation from their unimpressive hotel room press tour....

 

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/03/22/atari_lempty_box/

 

When Atari's chief operating officer Michael Arzt suggested we take a look at the ports in the back, we're surprised to find it actually weighs something: Atari knows how to mock up products.

 

Less impressive is the accompanying game controller which looks like an industry-standard controller the sort of thing you'd see hooked up to an Xbox or Playstation but which is in reality a solid lump of plastic in the shape of a controller. The buttons don't move, the joysticks are rigid. It has nothing inside.

 

"The traditional controller works," Arzt told us, pointing to the square-stick box with a red button that, many, many years ago, was the games controller. It's hard not to get a twinge of nostalgia.

 

The red button goes down and when it does, a circle of red lights on the controller light up. The central stick moves. It appears to have a real USB connector.

 

Atari controller

Nostalgia ... Literally the only reason to be in this room is this classic Atari controller

What happens if we plug this into our laptop, we ask Mike. I don't know, he says. Will it work? I don't know. If we plug it into a different games machine, will it work? No. So it's custom hardware and software? I don't know about that.

 

Mike doesn't know lots of things about the AtariVCS standing for Atari video computer system which is odd because he's the exec in charge of it. But for those things he doesn't know, he makes up for with all the things he does know. None of which he can tell us about.

Edited June 7, 2018 by JBerel

[+x=usr(1536)]

The only modern version of Windows that would comfortably fit into such a small footprint is Windows IoT Core. You can squeeze a minimal installation onto a 16GB SD card, but Windows IoT is far too limited for a game console; it only supports certain SoCs and (as far as I know) doesn't yet support accelerated graphics.

 

Related to this: I have an Intel ComputeStick running Windows 10 Pro (32-bit) in 2GB of RAM with 32GB of on-board storage (I'm presuming eMMC, but really don't know or care). It works, but that's about all I can really say for it. There's roughly 17GB of storage left over after an OS installation and updates, and it can handle some light web browsing. But it's really asking a lot of the Atom processor even at that point.

[youxia]

That Arcade Dreamplay Dreamcade Replay thingy has similar specs (4GB RAM/32 GB SSD) and runs Win 10. Which was one of the things that made me skeptical about it. Not sure really how it will shape up. My i3/4GB laptop runs it fairly well, with multitasking. As for space it takes 24GB atm and I had it for about a year, so a couple fo big updates went down. Don't think they added that much to the original size.

 

Perhaps the Win edition for such devices as DR differs from the "normal" one though, and plays by different rules, dunno.

[zzip]

 

Maybe they think Linux will be "made easy" if it's sold on retail product like a game console. And again, Linux has an image of small-brother instead of Big Brother. What they don't tell you is the Linux platform is fragmented when it comes to desktops (which this product is) and you need technical chops to do anything with it. And Linux is going the way of constant updates and all that. So even that old advantage is lost.

 

Not really, these days almost every Linux task has has been broken down into simple recipes you can cut and paste. Run this curl command and this apt-get command and done..