zzip Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 I noticed Sony put a disclaimer before their presentation last night saying that all footage was "Using either a PS4 Pro, PS4 Dev Kit, or PC." My guess is almost all of it, if not all of it, was from a PC. That's pretty common during development, which is why I wasn't too fussed about the Tempest 4000 thing. Llamasoft not knowing it was being used by Atari is a bit concerning, but the display probably not being from the prototype VCS isn't particularly surprising. That's what I've been saying. This is a well-known industry practice, and those disclaimer only exists because publishers have been raked over the coals many times for it when they release the game and it looks inferior to what they showed in the trailers. That's why to me this is a nontroversy. None of this matters until release. If it is incapable of doing what was promised- THEN it's an issue. Until then hardware mockups and simulated footage are par for the development course. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Harding Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Seems it was just a misunderstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Seems it was just a misunderstanding. Seems to me, if you read between the lines, that he was instructed to remember his nondisclosure agreement and do what he's told, if he wants to get his expected paycheck from the not-yet-released Tempest 4000. So, yeah, "misunderstanding," sure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Harding Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Seems to me, if you read between the lines, that he was instructed to remember his nondisclosure agreement and do what he's told, if he wants to get his expected paycheck from the not-yet-released Tempest 4000. So, yeah, "misunderstanding," sure. I don't think an NDA has anything to do with this. Since he would have violated it by publicly commenting on the status of T4K on the VCS. Either by approving or denying the existence of the project. I would rather take him at his word. It was probably either just a misunderstanding or it was buried in the contract that they signed. Besides there is no guarantee that they would be the ones doing the port. Atari as the IP owner and publisher could have in their agreement to have Llamasoft or another company handle the Linux build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Yeah, maybe, if you choose to give Atari SA the benefit of the doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82-T/A Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 T4K should be pretty cool. What else will it come with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mockduck Posted June 14, 2018 Author Share Posted June 14, 2018 T4K should be pretty cool. What else will it come with? Atari has said it'll come with Atari Vault, which has around 100 games (both arcade and VCS) on it. The Vault is currently available for PC for $10. The company has stated they intend to offer other vintage 2600 games, but has not elaborated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBerel Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 So have exuberant backers come to terms with the use of the words, "intend to offer"? In my mind, with this outfit, that stops way, way short of meaning, "will be included with the box if/when shipped". I would agree it's completely reasonable to expect Atari Vault, Tempest 4000 and about a hundred other similar titles to be pre-installed on it given their relative value, but I don't see any indication from them that anything is more than "offered for sale", with the possible exception of the Atari Vault that anyone can buy for $5-$10. Just curious what assumptions backers are making considering they've already volunteered a huge benefit of the doubt on delivery in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnrk Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 Ended up passing on the Indiegogo. As much as I liked aspects of what they are doing I just couldn't bring myself to put down 300 bucks for a turbo-charged Flashback that I won't be able to play for 13 months. I might jump in later if they confirm the paddle functionality, but more likely I'll pick up a Flashback 8 Gold to put in my AV room. Right now I have a Raspberry Pi 3 in there, but the lack of paddles is killing me. If someone can recommend a USB paddle solution that will work in RetroPie I would definitely be obliged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBerel Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 Ended up passing on the Indiegogo. As much as I liked aspects of what they are doing I just couldn't bring myself to put down 300 bucks for a turbo-charged Flashback that I won't be able to play for 13 months. I might jump in later if they confirm the paddle functionality, but more likely I'll pick up a Flashback 8 Gold to put in my AV room. Right now I have a Raspberry Pi 3 in there, but the lack of paddles is killing me. If someone can recommend a USB paddle solution that will work in RetroPie I would definitely be obliged. I've looked many times, and I don't find anything but some homebrew rigs or old original or third party console paddles that have to be used with some kind of adaptor. It is strange to me because you'd think any one of the first to 3rd tier mouse makers could easily make a paddle using their optical mouse guts at a decent price point. You're only talking about assembling a different case similar to the old paddle controls with one axis of their optical reader reading a perforated wheel on an axle. Could probably be done even cheaper with a pot. It's not like folks are expecting a heavy arcade spinner. Those are available for about $100. Just a plastic knob that turns 180 degrees or non stop. Just doesn't make sense that no one has bothered to make a simple usb paddle. Hell the center mouse wheel on most mice already does the job, they just need a proper plastic knob and box. They ought to be possible at under $10 per unit production and sold for about $29.99. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 I'm a little surprised no one has hacked a jog dial (as used in audio/video editing) for this purpose. This project is pretty remarkable: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/192416-home-built-pair-of-usb-spinners-to-use-as-atari-paddles/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBerel Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 I'm a little surprised no one has hacked a jog dial (as used in audio/video editing) for this purpose. This project is pretty remarkable: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/192416-home-built-pair-of-usb-spinners-to-use-as-atari-paddles/ I have a couple editing jog dials, and I've looked into that. The editor controls are actually much more complex that you would need or could use for paddle control. They have programmable steps in their rotation in addition to increment and decrement on the wheel within a pre-defined range. While you can program a surprising number of functions into the wheels behavior, it's not suitable for simple x+1/x-1 range control like a potentiometer or optical motion sensor. A paddle is a dead simple device which is why they were the first game controllers. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82-T/A Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Atari has said it'll come with Atari Vault, which has around 100 games (both arcade and VCS) on it. The Vault is currently available for PC for $10. The company has stated they intend to offer other vintage 2600 games, but has not elaborated. I'd like to see what their DRM environment is supposed to be / look like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+x=usr(1536) Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 I'd like to see what their DRM environment is supposed to be / look like. But wouldn't that go against a great deal of the point of an open system, such as they have promised it will be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 They could go all in on "truly open" and skip the DRM, too. Given all the issues with this system, concerns about software piracy should be at the bottom of the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82-T/A Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 But wouldn't that go against a great deal of the point of an open system, such as they have promised it will be? I thought they were going to have a DRM loader on an otherwise open system. I picked that up from here a while back. Honestly... I used to hate DRM... still sort of do. But over the years I've gotten much more accepting of it... Like our digital overlords want of us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 When it's part of a massive ecosystem, like Steam, iTunes, Kindle or Netflix, I don't so much mind some DRM so long as it is offset by convenience and being able to run anywhere and share with my family. DRM in a boutique system, where the company is weak, the content selection is slim, and replacement hardware would be expensive or hard to find, digital purchases seem like a bad play. Here's where the A-Box crowd says, "they have to start somewhere, they're not competing with Xbox, they're doing their own thing." The "digital overlords" only have as much power and control as you are willing to give them. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82-T/A Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 When it's part of a massive ecosystem, like Steam, iTunes, Kindle or Netflix, I don't so much mind some DRM so long as it is offset by convenience and being able to run anywhere and share with my family. DRM in a boutique system, where the company is weak, the content selection is slim, and replacement hardware would be expensive or hard to find, digital purchases seem like a bad play. Here's where the A-Box crowd says, "they have to start somewhere, they're not competing with Xbox, they're doing their own thing." The "digital overlords" only have as much power and control as you are willing to give them. I still prefer GOG to places like Steam... just because you can download the installers. But my fear is that the Indie games may no longer have the ability to be played in the future. The Atari one... figure at some point it'll lose connectivity and be Inop. Hope would be that they just release or open it up before it closes... whenever point in the future that'll be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 You may find this relevant to the DRM/open system topic, but I just keep hearing a different Mike saying to instruct game-makers to make bug-free games for cartridges: Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+x=usr(1536) Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 You may find this relevant to the DRM/open system topic, but I just keep hearing a different Mike saying to instruct game-makers to make bug-free games for cartridges: atariSandbox.JPG Simple as that. So it's the PS2 / PS3 'Other OS' approach, more or less. I file that under, 'fine, whatever'. It does make sense to not allow users access to <insert root partition equivalent here>, so it's a not-unreasonable approach. What I'm wondering about is how they intend to keep user activity jailed to the sandbox. Virtualisation would probably be the most effective way, but I can't see the Bristol Ridge doing at all well with that. Dual-booting is another option, but, c'mon - this is 2018. Even Apple has halfway given up on Boot Camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Xbox One has a "developer mode" too. You can put what you want in the sandbox but you can't run commercial games when booted from that persona. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+x=usr(1536) Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Xbox One has a "developer mode" too. You can put what you want in the sandbox but you can't run commercial games when booted from that persona. True, but what I'm wondering about is the potential for leakage between the two contexts. RAM, CPU, I/O, and storage are, architecturally, shared between them. In the PS3's case, part of the purpose of the 'Other OS' option was to present a sandbox that prevented access to the RSX but still allowed access to those architecturally-common components. George Hotz proved that it wasn't as effective at its job as Sony might have hoped, which led to Firmware 3.21 and the removal of that capability. But on the I-can't-believe-it's-a-VCS, there really isn't any hardware worth preventing access to. It's all commodity stuff, nothing special. About the only things necessary to corral away are the boot and system partitions, for obvious reasons. However, what might be interesting would be to see if Netflix' certificates and/or decryption keys could be retrieved from memory (or storage), for example. Or anything related to connectivity for the App Store Equivalent. Even something as relatively benign as decrypting the root partition and reskinning the interface brings up the potential for much nastier things to take place. Access to the GPU might be useful for a bitcoin miner or similar, but it would be a very small cog in the overall machinery of a distributed network doing that. That said, I'm getting ahead of myself. We still don't know details of how this is intended to be implemented. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerDubs Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Access to the GPU might be useful for a bitcoin miner or similar.. We still don't know details of how this is intended to be implemented. Or- that may be an option by default design. Anthony from Ethereum has invested heavily with Atari and the Token project, and the guys from Virt-U are with Atari now since spring. Everything is speculative until announced, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mockduck Posted June 17, 2018 Author Share Posted June 17, 2018 I think the DRM will be similar to other consoles and PC storefronts like Steam (which is after all at its heart a DRM system) in that things purchased through the VCS storefront will only be playable on the VCS, and will be locked to the account that made the purchase. However, the VCS will also have a "sandbox" mode where you boot into Linux and can run whatever works in that environment. So, you probably won't be able to drop your VCS-purchased games on a USB stick and plug it into someone else's VCS, but you should be able to run PC games that are DRM-free (or that have DRM that can be supported on the Linux sandbox side of the VCS) through the sandbox mode. This is speculation, of course, until the thing is confirmed by the end-user, but this seems like the likely scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 That seems legit enough evidence to add to the OP. Thanks for this! From the campaign ... Far from clear. I wouldn't put it into a FAQ until they take a stronger stance one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts