[RELEASE] RASTER Music Tracker, v1.34.00

[ivop]

Let's use some proper terminology here.

 

1. There is NO such thing as proper tuning. You probably mean 12-TET, which is always slightly off (except for the octave). It's a compromise tuning to avoid having to have several pianos on stage.

2. Every tuning is a ratio tuning, even 12-TET.

3. To answer emkay, everybody used to use 12-TET dist A, but not tuned to the dist C bases

4. A song strictly in C Major should sound better with C Major Pythagorean tuning, but not if it wanders outside its C Major scale too much.

 

 

 

[ivop]

Thanks for your long explanation!

14 hours ago, VinsCool said:

rmt_feat.a65 (work in progress set of features for conditional assembly for all the changes I did)

This is what I meant, i.e. conditionally leave out features that are not needed, to save space for other code. But the fact that you'll leave the functionality active and will work on it is enough for me right now. Months to go before I even start with music for SV2K22

[emkay]

42 minutes ago, ivop said:

Let's use some proper terminology here.

 

1. There is NO such thing as proper tuning. You probably mean 12-TET, which is always slightly off (except for the octave). It's a compromise tuning to avoid having to have several pianos on stage.

2. Every tuning is a ratio tuning, even 12-TET.

3. To answer emkay, everybody used to use 12-TET dist A, but not tuned to the dist C bases

4. A song strictly in C Major should sound better with C Major Pythagorean tuning, but not if it wanders outside its C Major scale too much.

 

 

 

After reading this , I still wonder . Don't you hear that off tune even without the Dist. C in the "ratio" tuning?

It is like someone puts several different base notes to play a melody.  

[ivop]

27 minutes ago, emkay said:

After reading this , I still wonder . Don't you hear that off tune even without the Dist. C in the "ratio" tuning?

It is like someone puts several different base notes to play a melody.  

I definitely hear Vinscool's "ratio" tuning experiments sounded off tune. I agree that his "proper" compromise sounds better.

 

That means he did something wrong, or the song it not suited for a single just tuning.

 

Which ratios did he use? There are infinite possibilities. Is it Pythagorean? Or something else?

 

Perfect thirds and fifths will sound better, as per the definition of what a third and a fifth is. In 12-TET, they will always be slightly off.

 

Edit: also, what did Vinscool mean with proper? True 12-TET or his previous compromise between 12-TET and just intonation? So many questions, so many variables

Edited March 16, 2022 by ivop

[VinsCool]

1 hour ago, ivop said:

Let's use some proper terminology here.

oh yeah! I probably should have been a bit more clear about this.

 

1 hour ago, ivop said:

1. There is NO such thing as proper tuning. You probably mean 12-TET, which is always slightly off (except for the octave). It's a compromise tuning to avoid having to have several pianos on stage.

yup yup, when I said "proper" earlier I specifically meant to say the best possible 12-TET tuning that I have figured out so far.

That's a 440.83751645933Hz in PAL, or 444.895778867913Hz in NTSC, respectively, for equivalent tables and intervals.

 

2 hours ago, ivop said:

3. To answer emkay, everybody used to use 12-TET dist A, but not tuned to the dist C bases

In nearly all cases, tuning was both incompatible, and used numbers that simply did not work well either.

When it was not, it was tuned by ear, which also leads to a certain error margin.

All my newest tuning calculations come from using formulae, and very accurate numbers are predicted as a result, for as many known modes as there could be.

Hopefully a lot more could also be understood better for even more fun later.

 

2 hours ago, ivop said:

4. A song strictly in C Major should sound better with C Major Pythagorean tuning, but not if it wanders outside its C Major scale too much.

Ayup, that is specifically what my Ratio tuning from earlier was intended for: it was the pattern I had figured out some time ago before the tuning based on B-4 I now use.

This ratio works best in C Major, but I tried as much as possible to get decent results when the notes venture outside of the key, where they would still sound off, but not horribly wrong, unlike pure Pythagorean, or Just Intonation.

That's obviously not the "perfect" ratio, but that's the one I thought worked the best for a very constant pattern, where everything landed on the exact frequency for several octaves in a row  

 

2 hours ago, ivop said:

Thanks for your long explanation!

This is what I meant, i.e. conditionally leave out features that are not needed, to save space for other code. But the fact that you'll leave the functionality active and will work on it is enough for me right now. Months to go before I even start with music for SV2K22

Great! I hope all the efforts will be worth it!

I really hated how my earlier hacks just broke everything, this time I really went all out to truly contribute to the driver improvements. 

 

1 hour ago, emkay said:

After reading this , I still wonder . Don't you hear that off tune even without the Dist. C in the "ratio" tuning?

It is like someone puts several different base notes to play a melody.  

That's the limitations of 8-bit frequency divisor, no matter how good a pattern is, it will never be perfectly tuned.

That's where introducing the ratio interval for more colours may also become really useful.

 

1 hour ago, ivop said:

I definitely hear Vinscool's "ratio" tuning experiments sounded off tune. I agree that his "proper" compromise sounds better.

Yeah, obviously the second tune I posted was *not* in the right key for it, but I actually have composed that tune using that very same ratio, so it was, in my taste, very nice to hear.

The "detuning" was fitting nicely, if you see what I mean  I love the kind of resonance it created.

That ratio again was never intended to be the "universal" solution, but more like the ratio that sounded the nicest to *my* ears in songs that ventured outside of C Major, hehe.

I do want to try out a lot more now that I have got the proof of concept to work, so it's becoming really exciting!

Not yet shown, but I also have gotten a really quick and easy way to do temperaments that do not use 12 notes, so that will be even more fun as well.

 

1 hour ago, ivop said:

That means he did something wrong, or the song it not suited for a single just tuning.

Yah, most likely a mix of both, lol

 

1 hour ago, ivop said:

Which ratios did he use? There are infinite possibilities. Is it Pythagorean? Or something else?

Let's just call it "Vin's Alternate Tuning"

1/1
40/38
10/9
20/17
5/4
4/3
60/43
3/2
30/19
5/3
30/17
15/8

A mix of several things, really, I mainly wanted to get "as many 0 cents off itself" as possible with this, more than truly go deeply into the perfect pitch.

 

1 hour ago, ivop said:

Perfect thirds and fifths will sound better, as per the definition of what a third and a fifth is. In 12-TET, they will always be slightly off.

Yeah, I think that's what is the coolest thing in all of this: compromised interval really could sound great with different settings, depending on what you want to get pretty much.

 

1 hour ago, ivop said:

Edit: also, what did Vinscool mean with proper? True 12-TET or his previous compromise between 12-TET and just intonation? So many questions, so many variables

yeah like I pointed out above, I defined "proper" as the best known approximation of 12-TET on the POKEY chip. 

That's the same tuning I've settled on using since the end of summer, and will keep for everything I want to be in the "best" sweet spot.

 

Ratio referred to the "Alternate" tuning I used for the 2 comparisons, but it could virtually be anything now  

Ratio is essentially the tuning I had just before the proper 12TET I have right now, it does sound nice but it's not anything perfect, as demonstrated.

(I still very much like it, however, my ears are weird I guess, hahaha!)

[emkay]

To me there is no alternative to the "proper" tuning. 

Of course there are restrictions, but it is fairly enough to replay everything at 4 channels. 

 

But, for a good tune, the "next" note in a melodic row somehow has to be predictable. 

 

 

[VinsCool]

I have had a bit too much fun tonight-- so now I got tuning by ration AND transpose to any key, with the base tuning to adjust to my liking fully functional.

That means now, well, any key can be modulated from a ratio, a base note, and a base tuning, without ANY manual adjustments at all!

I can tell for sure this might become quite powerful in good hands, because holy shit, this is a game changer for myself already, and this is not yet a feature I consider finished.

 

just for fun here's this one I edited with the tuner dialog ONLY, saying this feels great to do in a few clicks would be an understatement right now ?

stranded on the surface of io reharmonised.xex

[VinsCool]

Am I overdoing this? ping @ivop ?

So far, this works GREAT!

Also not seen here: settings all saved in rmt.ini, including user input ratios.

 

More progress coming later  

 

[Edit]

Man, this hits kinda different in the Young Temperament.

Edited March 18, 2022 by VinsCool
added a video

[ivop]

8 hours ago, VinsCool said:

Am I overdoing this? ping @ivop ?

Not IMHO It's great what you are doing. Temperament presets FTW!

[VinsCool]

1 hour ago, ivop said:

Not IMHO It's great what you are doing. Temperament presets FTW!

Awesome!

More will come, in this case!

 

So I have pretty much come to a simpler approach to handle it too.

The options would be broken down as such:

 

- Temperament would define if the tuning is generated from 12TET, Preset Temperament(s) or Custom Temperament (RA/TIO)

Ideally I would like to find more reliable documentation and sources so I could also get the equivalent ratios displayed when either option is chosen, and automatically switch to "custom" if any ratio is edited.

I think the Young Temperament I tested here was correct, but it doesn't hurt to double check the numbers, since I fed it directly as decimal numbers.

If anyone know or have any sources that are accurate and could possibly help me, please let me know! This could help me a lot and avoid doing something wrong as soon as possible.

- Get rid of the checkbox below, (tune by ratio or not)

I mean, because the above statement would essentially make it entirely pointless.

- Fix the tuning by key, right now my setup is rather poor, and I have not actually got the ratios applied to the key at the appropriate interval

It's mainly an oversight of my programming in this case, I know what I did wrong there. I should have made it offset, then generated, instead of stepping to the same interval as if things were always in C Major, but tuned from a different note... oops.

So the other day when you pointed out I may have done something wrong... it probably was related to this, among some more things that were also fixed in the meantime.

- Add support to temperaments that are outside of 12 notes

That's going to be totally pointless and optional, but who knows, maybe there is some micro-tonality potential to exploit there... ? 

I mean, I do have the code for everything already, and defining how many notes/cents are needed to define an octave is merely a few parameters to changes, so that's worth trying, don't you agree?  

- Debating if the registers tuning display should also make use of the ratio

Right now, they're all output as if things were in 12TET, so the amount of cents off may be a little misleading, if the notes used were intended to be that amount.

I think that's fine as it is, but it doesn't hurt to see if the "good" notes are really the ones that were expected, too.

 

---

 

After that, I pretty much only have to do this:

 

- Polish the driver further

I know I'm far from done with this one, but at least, I got the tables generation out of the way, finally!

- Clean up the VUPlayer, and allow further customisation in the export process through RMT

The volume bars display code could be a lot better and faster, for example.

- Fix any bug I may have introduced recently

I know I did fix a handful already! There was a notorious memory leak between the RMT and POKEY plugins bridge I think I narrowed down by accident, too!

- Find a good way to share my modified Altirra plugins, since I did change a couple things in the way the information between RMT and the plugins is being treated.

They are very much necessary this time! After the changes I did, they are currently the only option that will actually work as expected!

The changes done for these fixed a couple issues, such as proper Stereo detection(!), proper Region detection(!), 6502_JSR Cycle Accuracy(?), and tighter response for sound generation by tweaking how the audio buffer was created, using few different parameters between PAL and NTSC.

I believe I can easily fix the old (DC Offset bugfixed) sa_pokey.dll for this, but I have no idea yet with the apokeysnd.dll structure.

 

---

 

After all of that, I think that sounds like a good point for a new RMT release?

It definitely has been a long time since the last one I posted, but there was a lot of work that has been put into it, and I also feel bad for releasing half finished updates.

 

Honestly... I really wonder when it will be okay to share the complete source code, including everything I have done on my side...

I'm really all by myself right now, and I think I've proven the interest and dedication with the project multiple times now.

 

Please do not take the statement written above as nagging, or pestering! I do not want to be annoying, but I think what I said is justified.

I understand the reason for keeping things private, but it's been so long since the last official update, and there was a ton of work put into it since I was able to work from the full sources too.

It's mainly about the fact that, I am working on this alone, all by myself, and I know I am not capable of doing everything I want, at least not without some help from another person who may have the solution for something I could spend days tracking down...

 

Anyway, sorry for rambling a bit more, I will post more progress later!  

 

[_The Doctor__]

well, you can share what you've done... as it will be a hell of a lot to look at anyway. and until folks can look at the source code of what came before we can fill in the blanks for what we don't see to a degree. That will afford some understanding, but not full clarity. This will give others some idea as to what the can do with it in their projects/games/ and musical compositions. I feel good and confident that the source will come out for all some day.

[ivop]

16 minutes ago, VinsCool said:

- Temperament would define if the tuning is generated from 12TET, Preset Temperament(s) or Custom Temperament (RA/TIO)

Ideally I would like to find more reliable documentation and sources so I could also get the equivalent ratios displayed when either option is chosen, and automatically switch to "custom" if any ratio is edited.

You could merge 12-TET and Preset Temperaments. 12-TET is just another ratio preset. 12-TET is also a function, like this:  f(n+1) = f(n) * 2 ^ (1/12)

 

16 minutes ago, VinsCool said:

I think the Young Temperament I tested here was correct, but it doesn't hurt to double check the numbers, since I fed it directly as decimal numbers.

If anyone know or have any sources that are accurate and could possibly help me, please let me know! This could help me a lot and avoid doing something wrong as soon as possible.

I'll look into it. Kirnberger, Vallotti, Werckmeister, Young, all could be supported if the proper intervals were pre-calculated for the presets.

 

16 minutes ago, VinsCool said:

- Get rid of the checkbox below, (tune by ratio or not)

I mean, because the above statement would essentially make it entirely pointless.

- Fix the tuning by key, right now my setup is rather poor, and I have not actually got the ratios applied to the key at the appropriate interval

It's mainly an oversight of my programming in this case, I know what I did wrong there. I should have made it offset, then generated, instead of stepping to the same interval as if things were always in C Major, but tuned from a different note... oops.

So the other day when you pointed out I may have done something wrong... it probably was related to this, among some more things that were also fixed in the meantime.

Yes, I found it very weird that a just intonation sounded worse than 12-TET

 

16 minutes ago, VinsCool said:

- Add support to temperaments that are outside of 12 notes

That's going to be totally pointless and optional, but who knows, maybe there is some micro-tonality potential to exploit there... ? 

I mean, I do have the code for everything already, and defining how many notes/cents are needed to define an octave is merely a few parameters to changes, so that's worth trying, don't you agree?  

Microtonal music can be really cool. How about 10-TET?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbAsmGuPAuo

 

16 minutes ago, VinsCool said:

- Debating if the registers tuning display should also make use of the ratio

Right now, they're all output as if things were in 12TET, so the amount of cents off may be a little misleading, if the notes used were intended to be that amount.

I think that's fine as it is, but it doesn't hurt to see if the "good" notes are really the ones that were expected, too.

Perhaps you can make it an option? Show cents off compared to 12TET or compared to the selected temperament. If not selectable, I'd prefer a comparison to the selected temperament, because that is the tuning you aim to achieve.

 

16 minutes ago, VinsCool said:

After all of that, I think that sounds like a good point for a new RMT release?

Definitely!

 

16 minutes ago, VinsCool said:

Honestly... I really wonder when it will be okay to share the complete source code, including everything I have done on my side...

I'm really all by myself right now, and I think I've proven the interest and dedication with the project multiple times now.

Absolutely. I'm pretty sure that if it was open sourced others will contribute. Who decides whether you can push it to github or not? The person that supplied the sources? Radek's family? Somebody else?

 

I think The Doctor's idea won't work that well. You cannot release source patches without leaking the original source (diff -Nur).

[VinsCool]

30 minutes ago, ivop said:

You could merge 12-TET and Preset Temperaments. 12-TET is just another ratio preset. 12-TET is also a function, like this:  f(n+1) = f(n) * 2 ^ (1/12)

Yes, that was what I was saying  

Regular 12-TET would be "Equal Temperament" option in the preset list, pretty much.

32 minutes ago, ivop said:

I'll look into it. Kirnberger, Vallotti, Werckmeister, Young, all could be supported if the proper intervals were pre-calculated for the presets.

Thank you!

Ratios in decimal are perfectly fine for immediate use, but if they also exist as fractional integer ratio (like Pythagora or Just Intonation), it would be even better, since they could also be displayed in the customisable slots  

36 minutes ago, ivop said:

Yes, I found it very weird that a just intonation sounded worse than 12-TET

Yeah, that didn't come up to be obvious at first, but now I know why this made things tuned to A- to sound just like they were in C- then transposed...

My intention was to tune from the key chosen in the selection, and there compute the intervals from that key.

So after that, if things work as expected, tuning in C- or in A- would actually sound proper, because the correct intervals would also be applied.

 

That's pretty much just a side effect from the earlier tuning code, I tuned from A- and that was it. The best way that was worked around was to simply offset the output by 3 semitones to actually have the scale start on C-, from the A- tuning.

Now what I intend is to tune to any key, and start the scale from C- like before, but apply the proper intervals at the correct places too, so the tuning could truly be done on the key chosen, then be shifted to make the full scale like intended, it's really not that complicated but it's easy to miss, because I did not realise that after a few days, hah.

 

So, if I take example on the template ratio, if I tune from A-, that would make the Minor 2nd interval to actually be on the A# note, the Major 2nd on B-, and so on.  

43 minutes ago, ivop said:

Microtonal music can be really cool. How about 10-TET?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbAsmGuPAuo

Yep! that's the idea!

I don't really have an arbitrary range of notes, but I think going from 5TET to 19TET would be a good start for experimenting  

The tricky part would make the notes display that much as well, so I imagine all I can do is to simply... add more notes into the characters array to go beyond 12 if I need more, and then, simply use the appropriate Modulo to always get to the correct number of notes between octaves, if you see what I mean. 

 

It's definitely going to be very easy to put in practice if Equal Temperament is computed from it, ratios would take more work and so that's not a can of worm I will open yet, hahaha.

49 minutes ago, ivop said:

Perhaps you can make it an option? Show cents off compared to 12TET or compared to the selected temperament. If not selectable, I'd prefer a comparison to the selected temperament, because that is the tuning you aim to achieve.

Yes, that was exactly the idea!

Again, that's not difficult to do, I simply do the operations in reverse order, and making an option for which one is displayed is a matter of making a BOOL that can be saved in the rmt.ini file.

51 minutes ago, ivop said:

Definitely!

yay!

51 minutes ago, ivop said:

Absolutely. I'm pretty sure that if it was open sourced others will contribute. Who decides whether you can push it to github or not? The person that supplied the sources? Radek's family? Somebody else?

I believe it would be the person who granted me the original sources access for my own fork... I have not communicated with them directly, actually.

It was @Mathy who originally was the messenger, and ultimately emailed me with the sources and blessing from the people keeping the sources... I think it was Fandal? I apologise if I mixed up the names or the order of which things did happen, it was a little confusing, I have to admit ?

54 minutes ago, ivop said:

I think The Doctor's idea won't work that well. You cannot release source patches without leaking the original source (diff -Nur).

Yeaaaah...

That's precisely my concern.

I do want to share the sources with my contributions, but I don't want to leak anything if I am requested not to share anything... Which is honestly pretty frustrating, because I dislike having to keep things private just because that was what I was told to do ? 

And if I decided to not care and share anyway... well that's my reputation that is going to be destroyed, and I obviously don't want to attract hate against myself either.

[emkay]

It's really twisting.

POKEY is more in tune than 99% of the available tunes show. 

But programming "temperament" based on 8 bit resolution is like a flying Unicorn. 

It works in several cases, but the resulting pitches show the real limits.

Using 440Hz on PAL, or the equivalent NTSC tuning, allows to have the notes and octaves in the correct distance, to replay "music".

In a full working POKEY tracker, resulting temperament could be placed , using the hardware...

No, not "could"... it IS actually working.

Depending on the "octave mix" , the temperament is direct programmable. 

As I wrote before, it could be used to solve some hickups, when a note isn't where it belongs to.

 

Btw. 

pirx helped me to find a usable way to create graphics with real PC tools

 

So further updates of my player "fork" will surely see the light

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2022 by emkay

[VinsCool]

Correct distances are subjective, that's precisely the idea being put in practice  

 

Also, it would be nice to see the sources of your VUPlayer fork, or even a binary  

[Mathy]

Hello VinsCool

 

3 hours ago, VinsCool said:

I do want to share the sources with my contributions, but I don't want to leak anything if I am requested not to share anything...

 

You are not allowed to share the source, but you can share compiled binaries.  That's what Fandal said.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

[VinsCool]

2 hours ago, Mathy said:

Hello VinsCool

 

 

You are not allowed to share the source, but you can share compiled binaries.  That's what Fandal said.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

Well, there we have it. Thank you Mathy for the reply, and confirmation.

As long as this is the request given, I must oblige, and not share the sources, with all the work I added into.

 

Maybe time will tell, but for now, the most I can do is share occasional progress and updates in this thread, when I am able to show something new  

While it is true I do not enjoy being restricted with what I can share, I respect the decision, and I hope I will still be able to make something good out of what I can do!

[VinsCool]

I believe I have got the interval system working properly this time... I hope I did, at least.

 

I did some test, like tuning in C- count the exact number of cents, tune in A- to the pitch that was expected from C-, and this time the interval did seem to match up from A-, where going back to C- would sound slightly different this time, with a different number of cents.

 

Turns out I was actually pretty close to it already, what I had to do was to offset the pitch written in the reference array, and not offset the interval array... d'oh

So now the interval remains the one expected from the key chosen to tune, hopefully I did it right, this time, lol

 

This certainly will need more test, but this seems to be correct, for real, this time ?

 

[EDIT] wow, this is actually pretty awesome! https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempérament_égal_à_quintes_justes

It makes the interval progressively wider, but somehow, this still does work, that makes every octave a bit larger than 1200 cents, I like this, works nicely in the POKEY 16-bit mode.

 

[EDIT2] just wow, listen to this, that sounds incredibly "correct" doesn't it?  

 

Metroid 2 - Surface of SR388 v17-2t-QUINTE_edit.xex

 

Edited March 19, 2022 by VinsCool
Holy shit, wow

[ivop]

12 hours ago, VinsCool said:

It makes the interval progressively wider, but somehow, this still does work, that makes every octave a bit larger than 1200 cents, I like this, works nicely in the POKEY 16-bit mode.

That's pretty cool indeed! As far as my French goes, it seems to overshoot only about 3 cents per octave. Compared to just intonated fifths for the whole circle of fifths, which overshoots 23 cents (that's unacceptable), this is an interesting compromise.

[VinsCool]

2 hours ago, ivop said:

That's pretty cool indeed! As far as my French goes, it seems to overshoot only about 3 cents per octave. Compared to just intonated fifths for the whole circle of fifths, which overshoots 23 cents (that's unacceptable), this is an interesting compromise.

Honestly I think this has been my favourite temperament I tried out there so far. The notes have a really nice resonance together, in a "detuned but pleasant" kind of way

 

It somehow managed to sneak in nicely with the already compromised "proper" 12TET that was as close as possible to sweetest spot that worked well with the POKEY.

 

More power to us indeed! I will try more temperaments later!

I got a certain setup going now, so adding presets is becoming a lot simpler as a result.

I also think that I indeed have fixed the "tune by key" condition now, so testing different keys in different temperaments should work as expected, hopefully.

 

Just another step closer to the ultimate goal of editing tables arrays in real time, this will especially be a killer feature when I find a way to get this to work!

[emkay]

15 hours ago, VinsCool said:

 

 

[EDIT2] just wow, listen to this, that sounds incredibly "correct" doesn't it?  

 

 

 

Using 16 bit should sound "correct" any time. 

Heck POKEYs 16 bit sound exceeds SID in precision by far. 

 

But, hey, it sounds really good. 

[ivop]

On 3/18/2022 at 8:24 AM, VinsCool said:

Am I overdoing this? ping @ivop ?

It might be nice to have a third column that mimics cent charts.

 

Then, if you edit one of the ra/tio columns, the cents columns is automatically updated, or vice versa.

 

For example. Young's 2nd temperament is build like this. You start the circle of fifths at C. C-G, G-D, D-A, A-E, E-B. All these intervals are tempered by a Pythagorean comma (which is circa 23.4 cents, sometimes wrongly rounded to 24c). All other notes are tuned purely.

 

The Valloti temperament is similar, but it starts at F instead of C.

 

Both have six consecutive pure fifths, and six tempered by one sixth of a Pythagorean comma.

 

Cents charts:

 

Young 2nd: 0 90 196 294 392 498 588 698 792 894 996  1090 1200

Valloti:   0 94 196 298 392 502 592 698 796 894 1000 1090 1200

 

I also noticed a few words/characters are missing. Minor/Major 3rd, Temperament

 

Edit: added bold to emphasize where the pure tuned notes overlap.

Edit2: does it work? A courier font?

Edited March 20, 2022 by ivop

[VinsCool]

1 hour ago, ivop said:

It might be nice to have a third column that mimics cent charts.

 

Then, if you edit one of the ra/tio columns, the cents columns is automatically updated, or vice versa.

In progress!

I'm currently trying to restructure all my presets with Scala data as reference, somehow I have a few issues with double arrays and pointers but I will figure it out, hehe

1 hour ago, ivop said:

For example. Young's 2nd temperament is build like this. You start the circle of fifths at C. C-G, G-D, D-A, A-E, E-B. All these intervals are tempered by a Pythagorean comma (which is circa 23.4 cents, sometimes wrongly rounded to 24c). All other notes are tuned purely.

 

The Valloti temperament is similar, but it starts at F instead of C.

 

Both have six consecutive pure fifths, and six tempered by one sixth of a Pythagorean comma.

 

Cents charts:

 

Young 2nd: 0 90 196 294 392 498 588 698 792 894 996 1090 1200

Valloti: 0 94 196 298 392 502 592 698 796 894 1000 1090 1200

Good to know! Thank you.

1 hour ago, ivop said:

I also noticed a few words/characters are missing. Minor/Major 3rd, Temperament

WINE is sometime pretty drunk with those boundaries.

I already have it that, don't worry about it  

 

At the moment, I'm going back to why my arrays aren't working properly...

I did do it 1 interval at the time, earlier, but then I wanted to make an array directly, and for some reason it seems to just ignore half of the values lol

I'm getting JavaScript PTSD with this sort of random behaviour with data I want to dereference, haha.

Buuuut I worry not, I know I most definitely did something stupid, and will fix it in 5 minutes or 6 hours, hopefully closer to the first option, now that I did take a break for most of the week end  

 

[EDIT] maybe I should make a class? for my temperament presets? I dunno really.

My first approach was using a double buffer, and use values in steps of 4 slots, and that worked fine earlier... Imagine the values may not always be equal in size? 

I actually did that thing first to specifically avoid the situation I am now trying to solve lol. Thanks Javascript for teaching me bad programming habits, hahaha

 

[EDIT2] okay I fixed it now! I was an idiot, like I expected, hahaha.

So basically what I did wrong was simply initialising the variables properly... oops

So definining a global array did work, but I was doing it backwards, AND I did not clear the memory previously occupied, no wonder that was broken earlier!

D'oh! ?

Edited March 20, 2022 by VinsCool
Fixed now

[VinsCool]

23 minutes ago, ivop said:

Edit: added bold to emphasize where the pure tuned notes overlap.

Edit2: does it work? A courier font?

Yeah that works, I see exactly what you meant!

[VinsCool]

Testing things, progress is slow, but there's fixes and improvements being done  

 

I thrive for the "What You See is What You Get" kind of experience, and this goes pretty nicely in the right direction  

Not seen here: I tested non-12 notes scales and tuning, fixed many bugs related to the tables generation, it is becoming pretty solid now, but there's a lot of things I must take care of before I consider the next version ready to be released.