Daniel Santos Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 Hello community! I have an Atari 520 STFM in good condition. I removed the floppy disk drive and put in a CosmoEx clone made in Slovakia. I can load .ST files on to the virtual floppies. But I don't have any software for it. I want to use the CosmoEx SD card as a hard drive but still checking what is needed for that. I have a ST disk image of assempro assembler (I don't even know if its legal). I was thinking, with just 512 K of memory, is it just useful for games (not even all, some require 1MB), or can I develop software on it (I will assume this to be rather painful by todays standards)? Maybe a c compiler ? Thanks, Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle_jedi Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 Most 520STFMs are easily upgraded to 1MB by adding another 16 RAM chips, and sometimes a couple of resistors. 1MB will give you access to most games and applications. Even 512K will allow you to play a lot of the games and run the apps. There are a number of C compilers although I have not personally used any of them, so I will leave it up to others to comment on their efficacy. Although you certainly can develop on the 520STFM the spongy keyboard might start to annoy you and I would guess that most serious development is now done on emulators to give better speed and flexibility. I don't know what a CosmosEX is. I tried to Google it and it took me to an Atari-Forum post full of blank images. So that's useful. If it is a solid-state floppy emulator akin to a Gotek or an HxC then there are loads of ST and STX images you can download and explore. If it is a hard-disk emulator akin to UltraSatan then you'll need a hard disk driver and most likely TOS 1.02 or better. I personally could not get TOS 1.0 to work with Ultra Satan at all. There are a number of hard disk driver options out there, but @ParanoidLittleMan has probably the most commonly used one. He also maintains a site with most of the ST's game archive adapted to run on hard disk which makes life a lot more convenient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidLittleMan Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 Indeed RAM expansion is what is most useful, especially when C compilers are in plan. And even gaming will be much better with more RAM - some need 1 MB by default, when running from floppy. And running from mass storage (hard disks in past, now Flash cards) usually needs min 1 MB RAM for games. But instead adding 512 KB with 16x 32 KB RAM chips better would be to add more. For instance 4 MB RAM board - and it will need less soldering. Since it is STFM it probably has TOS 1.02 . Can check it by clicking on Desk, Desktop Info - if year is 1985 it is 1.00, 1987 - 1.02, 1989 - 1.04 . Upgrade to 1.04 is recommended for sure. Then work with storage will be faster and more efficient. Here to add that CosmosEx has SD card slot, and it acts like UltraSatan. And more. Details here: http://atari.sk/cosmosex-3-0/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 C was a very popular choice for ST development. The old compilers will surely speak an older dialect that you may find jarring, but it wouldn't surprise me if newer compilers are available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tillek Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 GFA Basic also still has a viable community. The better question is really "what do you WANT to do with it" and then people can help you get there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Santos Posted April 20, 2022 Author Share Posted April 20, 2022 (edited) Hello and thanks for you interest and replies, I currently have no plans to add memory to the machine. What I really want to do is getting the mass storage on the cosmosEx going. My TOS About Info lists 1985, 86, 87, 88, and 89. For software development, I will stick with emulation, and test-run the programs on the real machine. Do you know any Atari specific literature on these machines that are useful to a software developer ? Either bare metal programming, or using TOS. Cheers Edited April 20, 2022 by Daniel Santos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tillek Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 Always a big fan of the Dev-Docs site https://docs.dev-docs.org/ And of course.... http://www.gfabasic.net/ How about another.... (It's not in French, honest!) https://info-coach.fr/atari/software/development.php Then, the Programming subforum if you haven't found it... https://atariage.com/forums/forum/175-atari-stttfalcon-programming/ Also, the sticky topic of links has things of interest https://atariage.com/forums/topic/264652-atari-st-tt-falcon-links/ Lest we not leave out the other (and perhaps better from an ST point of view) forum - or actually, just an excuse to make sure C++ gets represented. https://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=9129 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidLittleMan Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 19 hours ago, Daniel Santos said: Hello and thanks for you interest and replies, I currently have no plans to add memory to the machine. What I really want to do is getting the mass storage on the cosmosEx going. My TOS About Info lists 1985, 86, 87, 88, and 89. For software development, I will stick with emulation, and test-run the programs on the real machine. Do you know any Atari specific literature on these machines that are useful to a software developer ? Either bare metal programming, or using TOS. Cheers So, TOS is 1.04, and that's good thing. Doing development with emulator is for sure best way (I know some will say that it is not right retro approach, but what they know - just one word: Psion ) - lot of RAM, can switch it to higher speed, so assembling/compiling will take 2 minutes instead 50 ... Not to mention debugging possibilities. But, since mass storage (SD card as hard disk) is in plan need to say that using it with only 512 KB RAM may mean problems with lot of SW, even which works fine from floppy with 512 KB. Because hard disk driver takes some RAM - and about 40 KB is min, some may take much more. If know little German Atari ST ProfiBuch is pretty good literature, with lot of details about TOS, HW ... GFA Basic was popular and is good SW, but if know C and/or ASM surely should go with later. Most popular ASM, with reason was/is Devpac . Don't worry about legal issues - it is all very old. About mass storage on Atari ST: http://atari.8bitchip.info/ASTfamMS.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGB1718 Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 (edited) Have to agree with @ParanoidLittleMan I think you will need at least 1MB RAM, when I bought my first STM without a hard drive, I was using assembler and C and due to memory limitations, compiling was done to and from disk and it did take ages to compile, with a hard drive it would be quicker, but with even less RAM available the programs might not even be able to run. It wasn't long before I did the "piggy back" RAM upgrade to 1MB and the difference was stunning The other issues you could encounter is if you need to debug your program, you need to load some sort of debugger/monitor program, then your program and again, with limited memory you will probably find you don't have enough. Edited April 21, 2022 by TGB1718 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keops Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 (edited) On 4/20/2022 at 4:51 PM, Daniel Santos said: I currently have no plans to add memory to the machine Don't worry, you can do tons of things on a stoke ST with 512kb. The vast majority of games will run on it, only a small percentage need 1mb. All the games from the "golden years" of the ST will run just fine with half a meg. You can also have fun programming in GFA basic or even in assembler with Devpac for example. Unless you work on big projects, it will be fine with half a meg if you just want to have fun with your ST Edited April 22, 2022 by Keops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christos Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 You can also run Virtual Escape or many other demos. Running CosmosEX with 512K might be a bit too little though, since the driver will get a few precious KB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keops Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 On 4/22/2022 at 6:50 AM, Christos said: You can also run Virtual Escape or many other demos. Oh you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DarkLord Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 I totally agree with everyone here saying that you can have a lot of fun with games and demos with a 512k Atari ST. On the other hand, if you grow into the ST scene at all and start doing other things or investing in a mass storage device such as an Ultrasatan, then you will want to use hard drive adapted games, many of which need 1 meg or more... If you do anything from the desktop (productivity or even recreation such as art music, coding, etc) then, after adding a few ACC's, and a few AUTO folder programs, you're going to find that 512k is a choke-point. I recommend 1 meg as the minimum. There's a lot of exciting ways to enhance and upgrade the ST line these days and if you plan on doing anything other than minimal gaming, I'd highly recommend that you research all your options... HTH's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Santos Posted May 8, 2022 Author Share Posted May 8, 2022 (edited) I want a hard drive just to store source files, so I don't have to load them from disk images. I am planning on doing some assembly, but just for learning and development fun. As to games, good to know that most of them are supported on the 520 kb models. Edited May 8, 2022 by Daniel Santos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 I don't know if it's possible, or if you can get the software copied, but I would use a real Atari ST for composing music. Most likely with 'Maxymiser', or was it 'Maxymizer'? Atari ST's soundchip is one of those ingenious, unique and rare things where you can get amazing sounds out of it that even the SID can't copy, if you know what you are doing. This is why I think it would be incredibly valuable to have a real Atari ST to create music on/with/for/etc, and also to create instruments I can use together with other computers. There's something magical about combining old hardware's capabilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGB1718 Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 On 5/8/2022 at 1:59 PM, Daniel Santos said: I am planning on doing some assembly, but just for learning and development fun. DEVPAC-3 is good for assembler, the disk images can be used on STEEMSSE and can be installed to it's virtual had disks (as can almost any other software ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.