Atari 1050 - Track Display

[macsonny]

A few months ago I was trying to work out a way to build a circuit to display the track count on a LED or OLED display for the 1050 floppy.

 

Whilst there was some help, there really was no solution.

 

I since bought a Happy MOD for my 1050 from AtariMax. When I was a kid I couldn't afford on of these upgrades and was very jealous of my neighbor who did have one. I guess that was 35 years ago now!

 

Anyway, I can afford one and have installed. I did a few searches and get the sense that using a Happy board might be an easier way to get an external track display working - but I have no idea where to start.

 

Any ideas?

[Beeblebrox]

@macsonny  I know the following thread is for the XF551 drive, but Dropcheck may be able to help you here with the 1050 track display:

 

She also has created and sells many other Atari 8-bit hardware mods in the US.

 

Her website: https://www.bitsofthepast.com/?post_type=product

[macsonny]

29 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

@macsonny  I know the following thread is for the XF551 drive, but Dropcheck may be able to help you here with the 1050 track display:

 

She also has created and sells many other Atari 8-bit hardware mods in the US.

 

Her website: https://www.bitsofthepast.com/?post_type=product

Thanks. Doesn't look they they sell the mods for the XF551 any more, let alone the 1050 ?

[Beeblebrox]

@macsonny PM Dropcheck and ask. I am not sure how often she is looking at AA so PM is prob best. ?

[+Larry]

I understand that you want a 1050 with a track display, but that requires something that doesn't currently exist (including a MegaSpeedy) unless you can find someone to sell you theirs.

 

OTOH, Have you considered an Indus drive with a track buffer mod from tf_hh?  The track buffer makes all the difference, IMO. There was even an UltraSpeed mod by MrMartian that makes the Rana a pretty decent drive. An issue with the 1050 track display on the Mega Speedy is that it just doesn't look very good.  Very functional, but not so aesthetically pleasing -- at least to my eyes.  There were some 3D parts created, but IMO, they didn't help much. I think my approach looks just "ok."  (Picture with dust and all...) If a display could be created that wasn't so large, that would help immensely.  But no matter, it is either going to be a "wart" on the 1050 or you will have to hack the case.

 

 

 

 

[macsonny]

1 hour ago, Larry said:

I understand that you want a 1050 with a track display, but that requires something that doesn't currently exist (including a MegaSpeedy) unless you can find someone to sell you theirs.

 

OTOH, Have you considered an Indus drive with a track buffer mod from tf_hh?  The track buffer makes all the difference, IMO. There was even an UltraSpeed mod by MrMartian that makes the Rana a pretty decent drive. An issue with the 1050 track display on the Mega Speedy is that it just doesn't look very good.  Very functional, but not so aesthetically pleasing -- at least to my eyes.  There were some 3D parts created, but IMO, they didn't help much. I think my approach looks just "ok."  (Picture with dust and all...) If a display could be created that wasn't so large, that would help immensely.  But no matter, it is either going to be a "wart" on the 1050 or you will have to hack the case.

 

 

 

 

I've got a plan to cover the display to OLED to make it nice and neat with an Arundino controller. I just need a way to get the track counter from the 1050 and it seems the only person to have cracked that nut is via the Mega Speedy. If someone has a way of getting the track count from the 1050 without a Mega Speedy then I'm all ears!

[TGB1718]

Should be fairly easy if using an Arduino, use Track 0 to set the start point, this is what the software in the

1050 does, so you have your starting point, then use the Arduino to count step/direction off the FDC.

 

Could set the Track 0 input on an interrupt in the Arduino so making sure it resets to zero

 

If you use an OLED flat display it could lie on the front and use I2C to communicate, maybe a small hole in the

plastic behind the display

 

Edit: Had a look at the circuit diagram and it appears the 1050 doesn't use the step/direction output from the FDC

chip, you would need to check the lines from the PIA chip to determine what signal levels are step in/out ( NS01,NS02,NS03 and NS04)

Edited April 20, 2022 by TGB1718
spelling

[macsonny]

1 hour ago, TGB1718 said:

Should be fairly easy if using an Arduino, use Track 0 to set the start point, this is what the software in the

1050 does, so you have your starting point, then use the Arduino to count step/direction off the FDC.

 

Could set the Track 0 input on an interrupt in the Arduino so making sure it resets to zero

 

If you use an OLED flat display it could lie on the front and use I2C to communicate, maybe a small hole in the

plastic behind the display

 

Edit: Had a look at the circuit diagram and it appears the 1050 doesn't use the step/direction output from the FDC

chip, you would need to check the lines from the PIA chip to determine what signal levels are step in/out ( NS01,NS02,NS03 and NS04)

Yeah, not as easy as I thought to be honest. I had a counter setup and trying to get info from the FDC was really hard. You don't know how to extra the track number from the FDC by any chance?

[macsonny]

I found this document and it looks like I can use PIN 15 to get step pulse, PIN 16 to get step direction and PIN 34 for when the drive is at track 00. Is it as simple as using a counter based on inputs from PIN 15 and 16? 

WD2793.pdf

[Rybags]

I'm sure this has been gone over in the last couple of weeks.

 

The 1050 doesn't use the WD controller for stepping - it's done in phases by IO bits (RIOT?) - as such tapping into it won't be helpful.

 

In theory if you had Happy firmware you could just modify that to pass the track # to an Arduino, Pi or whatever.

[xrbrevin]

im pretty sure the original Happy mod had an optional extra piece of hardware for track display but as you say the FDC chip doesnt even output step or direction in the 1050 application - alas the pins are null at all times! i wonder if just the track display part of the happy design and firmware could be isolated for just this task?

 

the 1050 riot has 4x outputs for the stepper motor but they do not use normal high/low logic, i think it uses various combined signals to make the stepper move as required. it needs mapping on a scope really but ive only got a cheesy handheld one and i'd have to research and learn as i go but alas my spare time is being demanded by other things at the mo..

 

i'd like to help solve the puzzle tho - its a pesky one!

 

Edit:

this thing

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by xrbrevin
link found

[macsonny]

18 hours ago, xrbrevin said:

im pretty sure the original Happy mod had an optional extra piece of hardware for track display but as you say the FDC chip doesnt even output step or direction in the 1050 application - alas the pins are null at all times! i wonder if just the track display part of the happy design and firmware could be isolated for just this task?

 

the 1050 riot has 4x outputs for the stepper motor but they do not use normal high/low logic, i think it uses various combined signals to make the stepper move as required. it needs mapping on a scope really but ive only got a cheesy handheld one and i'd have to research and learn as i go but alas my spare time is being demanded by other things at the mo..

 

i'd like to help solve the puzzle tho - its a pesky one!

 

Edit:

this thing

 

I'm with you but no-one seems to know a solution?

[xrbrevin]

i realised that the solution is outside my current skillset

using arduino type technology makes the h/w and firmware a bit easier to concoct but the drive doesnt output any useable signals in standard form. it must be possible as the Happy and Megaspeedy devices manage to pick up, interpret or even generate the required logic. hence my suggestion to isolate the function from one of these existing devices.

its a stinker alright! ?

[ijor]

22 hours ago, macsonny said:

I found this document and it looks like I can use PIN 15 to get step pulse, PIN 16 to get step direction and PIN 34 for when the drive is at track 00. Is it as simple as using a counter based on inputs from PIN 15 and 16? 

...

I'm with you but no-one seems to know a solution?

 

Please don't take it wrong, but in the last couple of months you asked about the subject in three different threads. I think we answered all those question already. Please make sure you read all our answers. And then, if something is not clear, no problem, let us know.

 

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/332756-track-density-display-for-1050

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/297544-help-required-for-1050-project/?do=findComment&comment=5025381

 

21 hours ago, xrbrevin said:

im pretty sure the original Happy mod had an optional extra piece of hardware for track display ...

No, some Speedy mods have a track display, the Happy does not. You might be thinking, perhaps, in the optional Happy Controller. The controller adds a couple of switches and one led. But nothing related to a track display.

 

Quote

the 1050 riot has 4x outputs for the stepper motor but they do not use normal high/low logic, i think it uses various combined signals to make the stepper move as required. it needs mapping on a scope ...

 

Again, please check the other threads that you also participated, just a month ago:

 

 

Edited April 21, 2022 by ijor

[xrbrevin]

my post is not off topic for this thread and it helped the OP. your contribution provides a link to another thread on the same subject, thanks for that

i am grateful for the responses people gave on my topic and with that in mind i realised ive gone as far as i can for now, without making a much bigger commitment

i think youre right about the 'happy controller' add-on. that link i found must be regarding a heavily modded one-off drive.. leading to a brainfog moment!

[ijor]

2 minutes ago, xrbrevin said:

my post is not off topic for this thread and it helped the OP. your contribution provides a link to another thread on the same subject, thanks for that

 

I didn't mean you were off topic, sorry for the misunderstanding. I meant that you are raising issues and asking questions that we already answered to you in other threads. Hence I posted the link to that other thread that answered the issue about decoding the four RIOT stepper signals.

[xrbrevin]

ah no prob ?

i know what you mean tho, it fragments the information and can make research trickier - we've all been there!

thanks for linking it up

[TGB1718]

In the code it uses these values, then does some "bit twiddling"  :-

1090 PHASE1 .BYTE $FB each time 1 phase on 0
1100     .BYTE $F7
1110     .BYTE $EF
1120 PHASE4 .BYTE $DF

 

the active bits are bits are 2,3,4 and 5 of PORT B

 

4370     LDA PHASE1,X   get mask for phase
4380     EOR #$FF          invert
4390     TAY 
4400     BIT DIR             get step direction
4410     BPL STEPM        for following phase
4420     INX                  step forward
4430     CPX #4            cyclus done?
4440     BNE STEP1
4450     LDX #0           if so, do it again
4460     BEQ STEP1
4470 STEPM DEX         step backward
4480     BPL STEP1      cyclus done?
4490     LDX #3          if so, do it again backward
4500 STEP1 STX PHASE    save new phase
4510     TYA               reset old phase
4520     ORA DRB
4530     AND PHASE1,X    set new phase
4540     STA DRB
4550     RTS 

 

I don't know if there's room in the ROM for a small bit of code where you could write the "step"/"direction" each time

this routine is called, the address would be resolved to the Arduino pins, then burn it to an EPROM

[TGB1718]

Been having a think on this one, I still have to "breadboard" my idea to solve this and to scope

the drive signals, but I'm going to try a Raspberry Pi Pico (cheap as chips  ).

 

Using the stepper motor changes to call interrupt routines and check the stepper motor

sequence, it should be fairly easy to determine if the motor is stepping in or out as it

appears there are 3 motor steps to 1 track step, the interrupt routine will just determine

if the pins go in sequence 1,2,3 or 3,2,1, obviously timing will be critical between steps

and the delay after a track step is complete, so a lot of "scoping" one of my 1050's to

produce a timing diagram.

 

After that, it's just code  ??

 

This may take a while...

[macsonny]

8 hours ago, TGB1718 said:

Been having a think on this one, I still have to "breadboard" my idea to solve this and to scope

the drive signals, but I'm going to try a Raspberry Pi Pico (cheap as chips  ).

 

Using the stepper motor changes to call interrupt routines and check the stepper motor

sequence, it should be fairly easy to determine if the motor is stepping in or out as it

appears there are 3 motor steps to 1 track step, the interrupt routine will just determine

if the pins go in sequence 1,2,3 or 3,2,1, obviously timing will be critical between steps

and the delay after a track step is complete, so a lot of "scoping" one of my 1050's to

produce a timing diagram.

 

After that, it's just code  ??

 

This may take a while...

Never say die! I love it. The trick is to work out how the track counter works when moving from say track 4 to track 21 in a single jump. Sequentially it should be easy - but jumps might present a new challenge?

[Mathy]

Hello guys

 

I've "found" the schematics to the Happy Clone with the track display.  And the silk screens.  The person who created them gave me the permission to share them.

 

Happy 1050 with Track Display.zip

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

[351coug]

this stuff right here, guys helping each other out, is why I keep coming back to these forums. 

[E474]

Thanks very much @Mathy, the schematics are a little bit too advanced for me, but I think I'm going to try to close the gap, so to speak.

[macsonny]

8 hours ago, Mathy said:

Hello guys

 

I've "found" the schematics to the Happy Clone with the track display.  And the silk screens.  The person who created them gave me the permission to share them.

 

Happy 1050 with Track Display.zip 182.39 kB · 20 downloads

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

Thanks for sharing Mathy. I had a look over and it looks like it's the board layout but I didn't see any schematics. Am I missing something?

 

I have a Happy 1050 drive already and was wondering if I could use the schematics to get the information out of the board to drive a track display. Hope you can share the schematics.

[xrbrevin]

the schematic with the 2x 7-segment displays is called HAPPY4.pdf - look to the top-right of the image