Input issue with Jaguar

[Teglement]

Hey all,

 

I recently picked up a Jaguar which seemed to work at first test run.  I played about an hour of Wolfenstein 3D until I began experiencing a batty input issue.  Suddenly, the system began registering constant down inputs, as if someone were holding down on the d-pad the entire time.  Other inputs work.  For instance, I can begin a game of Wolfenstein 3D and shoot, and holding up very slowly crawls forward.  Pause and option buttons still work as well.  Here's what I've figured out so far.

 

• The issue persists across multiple controllers
• The issue persists across multiple games
• The issue persists when controllers unplugged from the system; inputs persist with no controllers plugged in
• No surface level visual issues at the controller port, internally or externally, but this likely means nothing.

 

I've asked around in various places but was given the advice to check in with the Elder Wizard's here.  If anyone has any ideas of where to even begin with this, I would greatly appreciate it.  Would hate to have dropped good money on something that turned out to be unusable immediately after purchase.

[JagChris]

Did you check the pins to make sure none were bent or broken?

[Teglement]

1 hour ago, JagChris said:

Did you check the pins to make sure none were bent or broken?

One of the controllers is missing a pin (thus has a non-working pause button, not the end of the world) but the other one seems fine.  This seems to affect both controller ports as well.

[+Stephen Moss]

If there is consistency with the issue occurring after about a hour of use that suggests there bay me a bad solder joint somewhere, in that after an hour there is thermal expansion that creates an open circuit so that the input is not being pulled high.

If it was a controller Row issue then it should also affect Up, Left, Right, A & Pause, as you indicate those are Ok that suggests it is a controller column issue. If that is the case then anything that affects Down should also affect 7, 8 & 9 , do you have a game that use these to confirm that 7, 8 & 9 also appear to be active when down appear to be stuck as that would help determine if it is the console or the controller that has the problem. 

 

7 hours ago, Teglement said:

One of the controllers is missing a pin (thus has a non-working pause button, not the end of the world) but the other one seems fine.  This seems to affect both controller ports as well.

Are you saying that you have 4 missing pins or just 1 missing pin? Some controllers have all 15 pins, however as 3 of the 15 pins are unused some controller do not have those unused pins.

Do you mean the Pause issue is affecting both ports (it would if the pin is missing) or that the Down issue is affecting both ports? 

  

[Teglement]

On 4/28/2022 at 2:23 AM, Stephen Moss said:

If there is consistency with the issue occurring after about a hour of use that suggests there bay me a bad solder joint somewhere, in that after an hour there is thermal expansion that creates an open circuit so that the input is not being pulled high.

If it was a controller Row issue then it should also affect Up, Left, Right, A & Pause, as you indicate those are Ok that suggests it is a controller column issue. If that is the case then anything that affects Down should also affect 7, 8 & 9 , do you have a game that use these to confirm that 7, 8 & 9 also appear to be active when down appear to be stuck as that would help determine if it is the console or the controller that has the problem. 

 

Are you saying that you have 4 missing pins or just 1 missing pin? Some controllers have all 15 pins, however as 3 of the 15 pins are unused some controller do not have those unused pins.

Do you mean the Pause issue is affecting both ports (it would if the pin is missing) or that the Down issue is affecting both ports? 

  

I have one missing pin on one controller, and no missing pins on the other controller.  The Down issue persists independently of ports and independently of controller.  If only a controller is plugged into port 1, it happens.  If only a controller is plugged into port 2, it happens.  If a controller is plugged into neither, it happens.  The only game I have that I can test 7, 8, and 9 is AVP, which I'm unable to start.  Wolfenstein 3D will start, but doesn't use those buttons to my knowledge.

 

[+Stephen Moss]

If you have access to a multi-meter Locate RP1 on the PCB, it is long, thin & yelow and located front right, just below the 68000 and with the power on measure the voltage on each pin, the pin nearest to the 68000 (where is say RP1 on the PCB) is pin one, the are numbers secqentually from there to the other end. Start at pin 9 and work along to pin 1.

 

If you can find resistors R116 and R138, then with the power off measure the resistance from each side of the resistor to GND.

Yo ucan pick up GND from the big, thick silver track on the fromt righ corner of the PCB. 

[Teglement]

On 5/2/2022 at 7:47 AM, Stephen Moss said:

If you have access to a multi-meter Locate RP1 on the PCB, it is long, thin & yelow and located front right, just below the 68000 and with the power on measure the voltage on each pin, the pin nearest to the 68000 (where is say RP1 on the PCB) is pin one, the are numbers secqentually from there to the other end. Start at pin 9 and work along to pin 1.

 

If you can find resistors R116 and R138, then with the power off measure the resistance from each side of the resistor to GND.

Yo ucan pick up GND from the big, thick silver track on the fromt righ corner of the PCB. 

Was finally able to do this.  The RP1 had voltage coming through on every pin.  (Though mine is red, not sure if that means anything)

 

I couldn't find the exact resistors you mentioned, but I did pull resistance from all of them in that general region - I hope these were the right ones.  I've marked the ones that didn't show any resistance readings in red as attached.  The one of the left side had resistance for half but not the others.

[+Stephen Moss]

On 5/8/2022 at 2:45 AM, Teglement said:

The RP1 had voltage coming through on every pin.  (Though mine is red, not sure if that means anything)

If you were getting 5V on every pin then we can discount that, colour is just down the the manufacturer and makes no difference.

 

On 5/8/2022 at 2:45 AM, Teglement said:

I've marked the ones that didn't show any resistance readings in red as attached.

I will compare the marked ones against mine and try to identify the precise resistors I mentioned, the reason for the rest was to try and see if any of the input capacitors had failed.

To be clear when you say "didn't show any resistance" did you mean a reading of 0 or open circuit (usually a 1 on the left to the meter display).

 

Update:

So R138 is the forth from the right behind the right controler port, the one after the second resistor on you maked with two red dots (R142 being the first).

R116 is on the under side of the PCB.

On them I measure both ends of the resistors approximate 4.8K to Ground and they all measured 0.2 Ohms across them (ties in with your reading), which is a littel odd as the schematic shows them to be 100R so that is what I would expect to read, but if that was an image of your PCB you then I presum you have an early M model (as the one I was using) as the ADC is fitted so prehaps there is a difference between that and the schematic I have.

 

The resistor you marked behind the left controller port appears to be R111 which supplies power to the ADC, from the end you marked I read 0 to Ground from the other end I read around 10K to ground.

[Teglement]

On 5/9/2022 at 3:52 AM, Stephen Moss said:

If you were getting 5V on every pin then we can discount that, colour is just down the the manufacturer and makes no difference.

 

I will compare the marked ones against mine and try to identify the precise resistors I mentioned, the reason for the rest was to try and see if any of the input capacitors had failed.

To be clear when you say "didn't show any resistance" did you mean a reading of 0 or open circuit (usually a 1 on the left to the meter display).

 

Update:

So R138 is the forth from the right behind the right controler port, the one after the second resistor on you maked with two red dots (R142 being the first).

R116 is on the under side of the PCB.

On them I measure both ends of the resistors approximate 4.8K to Ground and they all measured 0.2 Ohms across them (ties in with your reading), which is a littel odd as the schematic shows them to be 100R so that is what I would expect to read, but if that was an image of your PCB you then I presum you have an early M model (as the one I was using) as the ADC is fitted so prehaps there is a difference between that and the schematic I have.

 

The resistor you marked behind the left controller port appears to be R111 which supplies power to the ADC, from the end you marked I read 0 to Ground from the other end I read around 10K to ground.

Thanks for all the help so far.

 

Yeah, by no reading I meant 0.  R116 and R138 seem to be consistent with your own, but closer to 0.4 Ohms.  Sorry if some of the stuff I'm making seems to not make any sense, I'm very new to all of this.  If you need any clarification on anything, feel free to treat me like a 4 year old on some of this.

[+Stephen Moss]

Ok, it it looks like all the controller port pins are being pulled high and there are no shorts to ground.

So next find U25 and measure the voltages on input pin 2, 4, 6 & 8 and their respective output pin 18, 16, 14 & 12 without a controller connected. Use the previously mentioned GND point when taking the measurements, also measure the voltage on pins 10 & 20 of U25 

 

[Teglement]

On 5/16/2022 at 4:04 AM, Stephen Moss said:

Ok, it it looks like all the controller port pins are being pulled high and there are no shorts to ground.

So next find U25 and measure the voltages on input pin 2, 4, 6 & 8 and their respective output pin 18, 16, 14 & 12 without a controller connected. Use the previously mentioned GND point when taking the measurements, also measure the voltage on pins 10 & 20 of U25 

 

Was finally able to get around to this.  It's strange - I did it twice, and the first time I got readings of 0.61 across the board on all pins.  Second time I did it I got 0.  Highly likely I'm doing something wrong here, but I figured I'd share both samples.

[Teglement]

12 minutes ago, Teglement said:

Was finally able to get around to this.  It's strange - I did it twice, and the first time I got readings of 0.61 across the board on all pins.  Second time I did it I got 0.  Highly likely I'm doing something wrong here, but I figured I'd share both samples.

uhhhhh well don't ask me how, but it's working again.  I put it back together, plugged both controllers in, and it's...just working

 

I thank you hugely for your guidance nonetheless.  Perhaps all it needed was a healthy probing.

[+cubanismo]

Maybe just some grime or corrosion on the connector that needed a few plug/unplug cycles to work through. When I first got my copy of Zero 5, I could barely get it to boot even after extensive cleaning. Many cycles later, it works the first try every time.

[+Stephen Moss]

7 hours ago, Teglement said:

Perhaps all it needed was a healthy probing.

Might be an issue with the solder joint for the power connections to U25. As I said the controller port inputs appears to be pulled up as they should be up to that point, so the next stage was whether or not the signal was passing through U25.

I am not sure about your readings, but if correct it does indicate that the the issue probably lies with U25. If you can do it I would suggest re-soldering it, or at the very least the power pins because if you were getting 0/0.6V on the power pin that suggests a bad solder joint. If that is the case the pressure of your probes on the pins may have temporarily restored the power connection but do not expect it to last.

[+cubanismo]

Yeah, that was the problem with sound on one of my Lynx. I'd open it and probe, and everything was fine. Put it back together and use it and sound would cut out. If you twisted the PCB just a smidge, e.g., by pressing a button, one SMD solder joint would lose contact and the sound would cut out. Finally found it with a combination of probing neighboring parts and visual inspection IIRC.

[Teglement]

Interesting.  I'll be sure to keep an eye on this and keep in mind what you've all said should this reoccur, which it's sounding like is probable haha

 

It's not like I didn't know what I was getting into, at least