Next up....a....BeBOX!

[eightbit]

In the late 90's (around 1998 I believe) I had discovered the wonderful world of BeOS (the Be operating system). I remember even then not having the compatible hardware to properly run it. The picture was not in color and no sound. The video card and sound card in whatever machine I tried this on were not supported.

 

I eventually found a card that worked as well as a sound card that worked and I fell in love with the OS. It was just such a breeze to use and such a multimedia powerhouse with the right hardware at the time. I purchased the "BeOS Bible" which was and still is an excellent book covering all things about this OS. I spent time on "BeShare" which was a file transfer and chat based app exclusive to the OS. I spent time downloading lots of cool apps on the "BeBits" website.

 

I ran exclusive BeOS console emulators, some exclusive games (there were not many..) and I recall this was the first time I was able to on the fly speed up/slow down and reverse a playing MP3. Great for listening to those hidden messages on the Pink Floyd The Wall mp3 album rip! I still do not know of a standard MP3 software player that can do that in Windows. I was using the excellent "Soundplay" app at the time...which I paid for since it was that great.

 

Well, life ended for that excellent OS and I was forced to move on out of necessity. But, I have always planned to build one system that will just work with it. It does live on today as "Haiku OS" and it is binary compatible with the old BeOS software and runs on many more machines (https://www.haiku-os.org/) which is EXCELLENT, but I have this vision of building a system that runs BeOS 5 Professional perfectly with the right hardware to work properly out of the box...or out of the BeBox I guess I should say!

 

So yeah, I am working on that currently in between the other stuff I am working on. Pretty excited to get this one going personally though. BeOS is not as easy to get running on systems. It expects specific hardware. It only runs currently partially correct on my Pentium 1 build. It will not run on the PIII, P4, or my modern builds of course due to motherboard chipset incompatibilities. So I basically have to be a bit dedicated to make this work...just like I was way back when

 

 

[Leonard Smith]

I remember being into fringe operating systems and devices.  
 

Then I began working for a large multinational corporation and realized that the world essentially runs on Windows.

It was easier to simply focus on learning Windows apps and programs versus trying to run against the herd and spending time/effort jumping through hoops to get my work done on a Mac (or Linux) device.

 

 

[eightbit]

I tested Zeta v1.5 on the P4 I have today and to my amazement everything works. Sound, video, even hardware video acceleration. I probably should have tested Haiku on this (and I may still do that) but as Zeta was released closer to the age of this P4 I have a feeling it will run better. It runs perfectly on the machine and I was able to install my old registered copy of Soundplay from the BeOS days and it works just as perfectly as I remember.

 

The Zeta installer (well, I started with YellowTAB v1.2 and then the Zeta 1.5 upgrade after it was done to be correct) had a really nice partitioning tool and easy method of dual booting with the already installed XP on this machine so now it is the best of both worlds. Really nice to play around with BeOS (or "Zeta") again. It was certainly way ahead of its time. 

 

Zeta has a ton of software already installed including DOSBox (with GUS and SB emulation already set up!), BeUAE, and some other emulators. Lots of other stuff too. I saw BeShare in here too. I might have to get this system online and see if any of those muscle servers are still active. Maybe somebody can help me find "Eric's Ultimate Solitaire for BeOS" too. I paid for it along with a bunch of other games from the developer way back then but I think I lost the discs in the Irene flood in 2011. At least I think that's what happened and they are not anywhere in my stash

 

I still plan on a true original BeOS 5.0 Professional build soon though. So many great memories running that OS and it will be fun to get it together. 

 

 

[wierd_w]

I remember BeOS, but never played with it.  I was too leery of it, having remembered OS/2.

 

 

[eightbit]

54 minutes ago, wierd_w said:

I remember BeOS, but never played with it.  I was too leery of it, having remembered OS/2.

 

 

 

 

It's nothing like OS/2 at all. Not very much like Linux either. It was a really interesting OS dedicated to multimedia multitasking. Just messing around with it today (well, Zeta, same OS) it can do some amazing things without bogging down the system. Stuff like playing multiple MP3's and videos at once while running OGL demos and such. Well, it was amazing at the time

 

I liked the layout and the ability to browse anywhere with a right click. The OS is very clean looking and pretty easy to use for the beginner, but there's a lot under the hood for the power user as well. 

 

It's just not possible to run the original BeOS 5.0 on any modern hardware. Maybe in a VM but I am not so sure about that. The hardware compatibility was extremely limited:

 

https://www.csie.ntu.edu.tw/~p88012/BeOSREPORT.htm

 

Zeta was released in 2006-2007 and discontinued sale as apparently it was based on actual stolen BeOS code. But they did add compatibility for newer hardware which is why it is running perfectly on this P4 Intel board. Haiku on the other hand is a reverse engineering of the original BeOS with no stolen code but from what I know the 32-but version of it is fully binary compatible with legacy BeOS apps.

 

Here's a really old video demonstration that looks like it was recorded on a VHS tape..lol. But it gives a good idea of what this was capable of:

 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by eightbit

[Keatah]

11 hours ago, Leonard Smith said:

I remember being into fringe operating systems and devices. 

I didn't get into them too much aside from trying to learn the ins'n'outs of Intuition/Workbench (as a user). And some Mac stuff. In 2008-2010 I tried giving Linux a go too. Everybody ranted how good it was, how low-resource it was, how non-Microsoft it was. Freedom of choice this or that. Reminded me of those religious evangelists in their fervor to convert me over. And being green just made me all confused and stuff. FOMO was a big factor there.

 

After each excursion into fringe OS'es I quickly gyrated back to Windows & DOS. Because..

11 hours ago, Leonard Smith said:

Then I began working for a large multinational corporation and realized that the world essentially runs on Windows. It was easier to simply focus on learning Windows apps and programs versus trying to run against the herd and spending time/effort jumping through hoops to get my work done on a Mac (or Linux) device.

..and today I wouldn't run anything else but Windows.

 

The jumping through hoops to get something done is simply not for me. I'm totally sorry but I don't give a flying fuck what others say about this or that OS being better than Windows. It may be better, sure, I won't argue that. But when I need to actually get something done I can count on Windows having the tools I need.

[Keatah]

3 hours ago, eightbit said:

It's just not possible to run the original BeOS 5.0 on any modern hardware. Maybe in a VM but I am not so sure about that. The hardware compatibility was extremely limited:

BeOS should work in VirtualBox, but I don't recall any extension kit being available yet. That just means more limited access to the host resources like USB and shit.

 

I looked at the supported hardware page, and it all seems in order for the time. In fact my vintage parts pile could build up as much as three Be systems as it stands (or rots). I was surprised that the Canopus Total 3D 128V was listed because that's a rare full-featured Riva-128 board. So glad I kept that one.

[+Gemintronic]

I think a lot of operating systems are arguably better than Windows.  BeOS was undeniably better immediately in even little things like moving the mouse.  it was always responsive and didn't choke on disk/cd access issues.  Drivers were a matter of dragging and dropping - never hanging on failure.

 

For awhile major book stores actually had software for BeOS.  Then they flubbed it with the weird mini appliance thing and went into tangents.

[Leonard Smith]

7 hours ago, Keatah said:

I didn't get into them too much aside from trying to learn the ins'n'outs of Intuition/Workbench (as a user). And some Mac stuff. In 2008-2010 I tried giving Linux a go too. Everybody ranted how good it was, how low-resource it was, how non-Microsoft it was. Freedom of choice this or that. Reminded me of those religious evangelists in their fervor to convert me over. And being green just made me all confused and stuff. FOMO was a big factor there.

 

After each excursion into fringe OS'es I quickly gyrated back to Windows & DOS. Because..

..and today I wouldn't run anything else but Windows.

 

The jumping through hoops to get something done is simply not for me. I'm totally sorry but I don't give a flying fuck what others say about this or that OS being better than Windows. It may be better, sure, I won't argue that. But when I need to actually get something done I can count on Windows having the tools I need.

100% agreed.

Better to spend your time getting stuff done and learning relevant software packages to further your career.  At least back then.  
Sure, the Mac Os and BeOs and Linux may have some neat features or cool graphical touches, but when none of the applications work seamlessly with your corporate environment (or require some crazy hoops to jump through), you have to question whether your time is better spent just giving in and running with the herd.

 

And yeah, those Linux zealots can be pretty hardcore.
Crazy that they claim it's so great when even installing applications requires mucking around with command line interfaces and weird formats.  People claim that Windows is unstable and slow (and it was at least for the pre-Win2K and XP eras), but you know what?  It works fine for me and has for all the years that I've used it in my school and career life.  

[wierd_w]

(currently driving linux)

 

Hey, Linux is a perfectly useful OS.  Like any OS, you have to get to know it. Thats about it.

 

About my comment about "having remembered OS/2", I meant in the context of "3rd parties not making drivers or software for."

Linux at least, has a very large and dedicated effort for hardware makers to support it, which is why I am willing to drive on it. BeOS never really had that, and instead had a fairly restrictive hardware list. There was a similar issue with OS/2, and naturally, it failed in the market.

 

Linux on the other hand, as been radically successful in the wild, just not on desktops.  Personally I find XFCE4 just fine. Feels a lot like win95 or win2k's UI.

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by wierd_w

[mr_me]

When you don't want to buy a new computer just because it's no longer supported by Microsoft, it's nice to have a great option like Linux.

 

Although the OS is important, it's not the reason people have computers.  If it isn't supported by the applications you need to run, a great OS is useless.

[zzip]

Yeah in the 90s, part of the fun of getting into PC was checking out all the alternative OSes available.    I did get a BeOS CD at one point,  and did check it out..   interesting, but the lack of apps and the fact that it already seemed to be dying off at that point kept me from getting into it.

 

9 hours ago, Keatah said:

I didn't get into them too much aside from trying to learn the ins'n'outs of Intuition/Workbench (as a user). And some Mac stuff. In 2008-2010 I tried giving Linux a go too. Everybody ranted how good it was, how low-resource it was, how non-Microsoft it was. Freedom of choice this or that. Reminded me of those religious evangelists in their fervor to convert me over. And being green just made me all confused and stuff. FOMO was a big factor there.

My friend started using Linux around 1994.   Kept raving how great it was.  I had never even been exposed to Unix at that point so it was all alien to me.   I couldn't see the big deal at first, but then I watched him perform some complex operations with just a few simple commands and I was amazed.  That was the point when I grasped the Unix/Linux model of doing things and I was hooked.   I've always dual-booted Windows and Linux since then,  and use Linux more for actual work and Windows is mostly for games at this point.

 

A lot of people see Linux as an alternative desktop, and while it can be that, it's real power is underneath.   It's why it's become the OS of choice for servers, cloud instances, many set-top boxes, Android and even mainframes,  but it lags behind Windows/Mac as a desktop OS.

 

2 hours ago, Leonard Smith said:

Better to spend your time getting stuff done and learning relevant software packages to further your career.  At least back then.  
Sure, the Mac Os and BeOs and Linux may have some neat features or cool graphical touches, but when none of the applications work seamlessly with your corporate environment (or require some crazy hoops to jump through), you have to question whether your time is better spent just giving in and running with the herd.

These days most corporate apps are web apps, or at least have a web form,  so what OS you run them from is irrelevant.  I can bring up Outlook in a web browser on any OS, same with Office365, Jira, Confluence, Zoom.   I can't think of a single app I use for work that absolutely requires Windows.   So I can run those apps on any OS that has a modern browser.

 

1 hour ago, wierd_w said:

Linux at least, has a very large and dedicated effort for hardware makers to support it, which is why I am willing to drive on it. BeOS never really had that, and instead had a fairly restrictive hardware list. There was a similar issue with OS/2, and naturally, it failed in the market.

This is the key.  In fact I usually find hardware detection works much better on Linux than Windows.   Often you can can just plug a new device in and it's instantly recognized and ready for use because the necessary kernel modules were already present.   For Windows the same device usually requires the install disk or driver download-  click, click, click, skim the EULA- unknowingly sign away your first born, click, click, click and if it doesn't fight you on detection/installation the device will be ready to use on next reboot.  (Windows has gotten better about this, it used to be much worse).

 

But if you run Linux on some alternate platform that isn't a mainstream x86 or Raspberry Pi,  you will often find native drivers aren't alway present or key apps aren't in the repositories and it's a much bigger pain to use.   

[Leonard Smith]

8 minutes ago, zzip said:

 

These days most corporate apps are web apps, or at least have a web form,  so what OS you run them from is irrelevant.  I can bring up Outlook in a web browser on any OS, same with Office365, Jira, Confluence, Zoom.   I can't think of a single app I use for work that absolutely requires Windows.   So I can run those apps on any OS that has a modern browser.

 

 

Unfortunately that's not the case. 

 

The megacorp that I work for has many legacy systems that still require the usage of certain browsers, applications and OS's.  I think you'd be surprised at just how many companies are in the same boat (and that's not including the government which still maintains some 1970's era packages). 

 

Migration to new technologies and consolidation of older solutions is not as simple as many think, especially when the majority of clients are dependent on features and custom routines that are mission critical and can't just be turned off for the sake of going to a more modern solution.  Yes, things are changing and companies are making an effort to eliminate legacy solutions, but it's not as clear cut as you make it out to be where everything is running as a web app or browser solution.

[zzip]

1 minute ago, Leonard Smith said:

The megacorp that I work for has many legacy systems that still require the usage of certain browsers, applications and OS's.  I think you'd be surprised at just how many companies are in the same boat (and that's not including the government which still maintains some 1970's era packages). 

 

Migration to new technologies and consolidation of older solutions is not as simple as many think, especially when the majority of clients are dependent on features and custom routines that are mission critical and can't just be turned off for the sake of going to a more modern solution.  Yes, things are changing and companies are making an effort to eliminate legacy solutions, but it's not as clear cut as you make it out to be where everything is running as a web app or browser solution.

I can see that in government and older corporations.   I've worked for mostly younger companies,  and the last few places I worked for gave users a choice between using Windows or Mac, and everything works with both.   Most apps are web apps or web-enabled.

[Leonard Smith]

Just now, zzip said:

I can see that in government and older corporations.   I've worked for mostly younger companies,  and the last few places I worked for gave users a choice between using Windows or Mac, and everything works with both.   Most apps are web apps or web-enabled.

True, that is the direction and I'd say my Megacorp is around 70% there. 

But we still utilize some apps and programs that are installed locally and/or have other special requirements to run.

 

Younger companies don't have to contend with legacy apps or a client base that's dependent on them, so they're not in the same boat.

 

 

[jhd]

1 hour ago, Leonard Smith said:

The megacorp that I work for has many legacy systems that still require the usage of certain browsers, applications and OS's.  I think you'd be surprised at just how many companies are in the same boat (and that's not including the government which still maintains some 1970's era packages). 

 

It was only within the past two or three years that my bank has migrated its account/customer management software to something modern. I remember sitting in the banker's office in the mid-2010s and seeing what looked like a DOS- or possibly mainframe-based system. It still used a character screen interface rather than a GUI. It was somehow made to run under Windows (possibly a custom terminal emulator). The staff were very efficient at using it, but it was not intended to be public-facing. 

 

I do not have to use them (thankfully), but my employer still runs some legacy databases for HR and other units. We are hoping to migrate to something more modern fairly soon. 

[+OLD CS1]

Since we hopped of the train to run along-side, I thought I would show off my hobo bag, too   About 10 years ago I used to contract out to a local developer to help integrate legacy systems into modern web apps.  I touched a lot of things they were afraid to, like COBOL and some Borland SQL engine on old Unix systems, &c.  Was fun while it lasted.  I am still a technology mercenary, and while there a lot of those legacy systems still in operation I do not get called out as frequently as before.  I really enjoy getting my hands into old stuff, even stuff I have to figure out, and getting it to do new tricks.

 

A buddy of mine made this kind of work into a stable career.  He works for a state college system pulling data from a hosted DB2 system (charges per record accessed or query, something like that, and can really suck as the DB2 system locks on pages and not records,) and pushing and pulling with Java apps for their financial aid system, both internal and public-facing.

[MrMaddog]

Yeah I really wanted to try out the alternative OS's like BeOS from the 90's.  I remember the original BeBox computers that came out, they had dual PowerPC processors and lights that ran up the case which showed off processor speed.  And the quick & powerful multitasking that went along with the cool looking GUI...

 

Of course I ran Windows 98 as a daily driver for compatibility reasons, but I just missed the uniqueness of other platforms like the Amiga and ST which were made obsolete.  I ran Linux distros, and why they were more "stable" than DOS-based Windows OS's, they were just too bleeding edge to be useful as a total replacement.  So running a dual-boot environment was common.

 

Nowadays I use Window 10, for work & play, without any guilt but it's just one of the many devices I use in this Post PC era.  I also have a Pi 4 as a "thin client" for using web based apps & remoting to my home office PC and a tablet w/ Bluetooth keyboard as a second screen.

 

[+thanatos]

I remember when the BeBox and BeOS was released, and even had it running on my PC for a bit - anyone remember System Commander to have multiple OSes installed?  Also had an OS2 Warp Partition.

 

Back in the day when the PowerPC chips were announced, I thought a new PowerPC based machine with Warp and BeOS could be amazing - but then Microsoft just killed everything by their monopoly, and there weren't really many generic PowerPC machines.  And then Apple put them in Macs.

 

 

 

[eightbit]

Eric's Ultimate Solitaire for BeOS has been found! I have been working on finding this for weeks, which in retrospect is not long at all considering I did not think it would EVER be found.

 

Here's the thread in the Haiku forums:

 

https://discuss.haiku-os.org/t/erics-ultimate-solitaire-for-beos-wildcard-design/12246/16

 

I could not acquire the name "eightbit" there. Someone took it. Bastard!

 

It's really nothing mind blowing, just a bunch of solitaire games (Golf always being my favorite) but I had fond memories of the smoothness of the card animations, the random fun backgrounds and the midi music which was just a variety of classic music songs that most people will know even without knowing classical music. It was just a game of cards I used to relax on down time and fart with while drinking a beer after work. And I am damn glad to have it back!

Edited June 14, 2022 by eightbit

[wierd_w]

I remember playing the solitaire sampler on early PowerMacs back in middleschool.

 

It is basically the same game, just ported.  They also made a linux version, that is similarly difficult to source.

[zzip]

5 hours ago, wierd_w said:

I remember playing the solitaire sampler on early PowerMacs back in middleschool.

 

It is basically the same game, just ported.  They also made a linux version, that is similarly difficult to source.

I have Eric's Ultimate Solitaire for Linux.    

It was ported by a company named Loki.   Unfortunately EUS is the only Loki game that I can't get running on a modern Linux system.   To play it, I'd probably need to spin up a VM with a Linux distro from the early 2000s

[wierd_w]

No, it can be done. It just needs some command line prodding.

[zzip]

42 minutes ago, wierd_w said:

No, it can be done. It just needs some command line prodding.

I've tried.   I use the alternate Loki libraries,  put all sorts of LD_ prefixes in front of the executable..  the stuff that works for the other games.

 

I do hold out hope that it's possible, so I'm open to suggestions.

[eightbit]

I have the Windows version as well. That CD is darn near impossible to get a hold of. It works well, but I think the Mac and BeOS versions are smoother with the card movements slightly. The Linux version I cannot say as I have never played it!

Edited June 14, 2022 by eightbit