Intellivision Amico’s trademark changed to ‘abandoned’

[MrBeefy]

3 hours ago, MrTrust said:

 

Yeah, I'll bet the Amico campaign is right at the top of their sizzle reel.  Show me where IE is on their website along with all the other successful brands they've worked with.  I can't seem to find it.

 

Guess that depends on what your definition of "said" is, right?  That "we haven't even started marketing yet" refrain was given over and over again in response to people noticing and pointing out that they did not appear to be anywhere near ready to launch on any of the various timetables they gave.  For example, someone says to TT "Hey, if you're launching in a month, why do none of the employees at my local Gamestop seem to know the Amico even exists?  Why don't I see any in-store displays?  This doesn't look like it's about to come out."  Response:  We haven't even started marketing yet, you're not The Demo, we can't talk about everything right now...

 

I can't quote it because the entire sub where it happened got nuked from orbit, but you were there and you know it was said.

 

Right, so where were the Ellen and Jessica Alba endorsements supposed to come from?  How were they supposed to get into all these retailers, get on QVC, have this big social media presence, do .75 billion in sales within 3 years, and all the other made-up things they were saying they were going to do?  They weren't.  None of that was ever going to happen; they did not have the resources nor the competence to make any of it happen.  It was all just bluster.
 

Kaplan and them were maybe there for the first couple of PR releases but has been MIA ever since. The marketing was totally the retro market and that is where they spent a majority of their time.

 

The CEO would have been a terrible choice, but he could have at least attempted to spend as much or more time going after mom bloggers/vloggers/magazines/websites, etc.

 

It was all bluster and they now have an established pattern of it. Tommy was horrible at it, and Phil seems to be going in the same direction.

 

3 hours ago, ColecoJoe said:

ENOUGH!

Please leave

35 minutes ago, MattPilz said:

$10,000,000 seems like a substantial marketing budget for a start-up, in my opinion.

 

 

No PO would ever be locked in and especially with terms that are now around 2 years obsolete. Most purchase order agreements have wording that mentions they can back out at any time, and in the event they do take 'x' amount but they don't sell they would be able to return the overstock back to the company for full reimbursement. I'd say planned purchase orders are the least accurate measurement for revenue reasons of it all, it yields $0 for Intellivision until the retailers have them in stock and they start selling. And even then the profit margins will be less given the retailer cut.

 

Also the general public who put $100 down for pre-orders is still not nearly the same as actual pre-order revenue. Those were simply 40% deposits toward the final amount and refundable at any time (well until they weren't) so it just wasn't accurate calling them pre-order purchases.

That is why I brought up the whole pre-purchased stuff. If it wasn't locked in it was more bluster and giving misleading information to investors. Even in the Patel video he claimed they would immediately start receiving their revenue share because that $25 million was a sure thing.

 

They have no guaranteed revenue of $25 million. Yet was presented as such.

 

I also suspect that is what happened to Ark for manufacturing. They probably gave Ark money and said they had so much in POs. So Ark probably too a down payment and gave them a line of credit. When it came time to manufacture Ark probably asked to see evidence of what they had "pre-sold".

 

I have heard before that manufacturing can be a multistep-like process in which you have to meet milestones. IE probably met the first one which is where they dropped that missing million. Then when it came tike they probably only had evidence for their 10,000ish preorders and whatever measly number Gamestop said, and Ark was like sorry but you don't meet the threshold and we aren't giving you the credit anymore.

 

I know I wouldn't give them a line of credit for 100,000 units when at best they can only sell 10k. I'd never see any money back from IE.

[Rev]

I trust this source for how much a startup marketing budget should be. 
 

So what was Intellivision Entertainment’s revenue.  Yes, practically zero.  But projected revenue?

 

https://info.angelfish-marketing.com/blog/how-much-should-marketing-costs-be-for-my-startup

[MrBeefy]

4 minutes ago, Rev said:

I trust this source for how much a startup marketing budget should be. 
 

So what was Intellivision Entertainment’s revenue.  Yes, practically zero.  But projected revenue?

 

https://info.angelfish-marketing.com/blog/how-much-should-marketing-costs-be-for-my-startup

So basically zero dollars on marketing.

[mr_me]

37 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

Kaplan and them were maybe there for the first couple of PR releases but has been MIA ever since. The marketing was totally the retro market and that is where they spent a majority of their time.

 

The CEO would have been a terrible choice, but he could have at least attempted to spend as much or more time going after mom bloggers/vloggers/magazines/websites, etc.

 

It was all bluster and they now have an established pattern of it. Tommy was horrible at it, and Phil seems to be going in the same direction.

 

Please leave

That is why I brought up the whole pre-purchased stuff. If it wasn't locked in it was more bluster and giving misleading information to investors. Even in the Patel video he claimed they would immediately start receiving their revenue share because that $25 million was a sure thing.

 

They have no guaranteed revenue of $25 million. Yet was presented as such.

 

I also suspect that is what happened to Ark for manufacturing. They probably gave Ark money and said they had so much in POs. So Ark probably too a down payment and gave them a line of credit. When it came time to manufacture Ark probably asked to see evidence of what they had "pre-sold".

 

I have heard before that manufacturing can be a multistep-like process in which you have to meet milestones. IE probably met the first one which is where they dropped that missing million. Then when it came tike they probably only had evidence for their 10,000ish preorders and whatever measly number Gamestop said, and Ark was like sorry but you don't meet the threshold and we aren't giving you the credit anymore.

 

I know I wouldn't give them a line of credit for 100,000 units when at best they can only sell 10k. I'd never see any money back from IE.

The way it was explained is that Zebra Partners (former Nintendo VP of marketing and corporate affairs) was consulted and came up with the marketing strategy to reach their primary target market of young families and casuals.  Obviously they took into consideration that they are a startup with modest resources.  They spent the majority of their time in the retro market but that started two years before their initial target release date.

 

The manufacturer knows what retail purchase orders are.  That's why they had a secured line of credit by a third party.  Manufacturer terms of payment are likely shorter than the retailer payment terms.  There would be some short term borrowing involved if all goes well.  The manufacturer doesn't want risk.

 

30 minutes ago, Rev said:

I trust this source for how much a startup marketing budget should be. 
 

So what was Intellivision Entertainment’s revenue.  Yes, practically zero.  But projected revenue?

 

https://info.angelfish-marketing.com/blog/how-much-should-marketing-costs-be-for-my-startup

 

So that would put it around $5M to $6M.  No startup has revenue prior to releasing their first product.

Edited August 17, 2022 by mr_me

[ColecoJoe]

43 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

Please leave

Chill out!

[Rev]

46 minutes ago, ColecoJoe said:

Chill out!

Yall get a room!

[SegaSnatcher]

15 hours ago, mr_me said:

Can I ask who are you comparing them to?  Why does it make zero sense.  If you're going to do mall tours for people to play the thing, wouldn't it be good to have inventory to sell them.  If you're going to advertise, influencers, etc, would you not want inventory available.

Name me one successful company that started marketing their game console only 2 weeks before launch.  Just one.  I'm literally comparing to every company who ever had a successful game console launch. 

[SegaSnatcher]

5 hours ago, mr_me said:

From what I remember, it was at least a month prior to release maybe more.  It wasn't two weeks.

All I know is I constantly read from Amico supporters and maybe even a quote directly from Tommy that the real marketing would start only a few weeks before launch, not a few months.

So, 2 - 3 weeks, what is the difference? It's still an incredibly flawed way to go about things when no successful console ever had just 2 - 3 weeks of marketing before launch. 

[jerseystyle]

1 hour ago, mr_me said:

The way it was explained is that Zebra Partners (former Nintendo VP of marketing and corporate affairs) was consulted and came up with the marketing strategy to reach their primary target market of young families and casuals.  Obviously they took into consideration that they are a startup with modest resources.  They spent the majority of their time in the retro market but that started two years before their initial target release date.

 

The manufacturer knows what retail purchase orders are.  That's why they had a secured line of credit by a third party.  Manufacturer terms of payment are likely shorter than the retailer payment terms.  There would be some short term borrowing involved if all goes well.  The manufacturer doesn't want risk.

 

So that would put it around $5M to $6M.  No startup has revenue prior to releasing their first product.

So you have talked to us about marketing, engineering, retail, how corporate boards work… after your board response and how off base it was it really does call into question your other responses. So, are you basing your answers on insider knowledge, work experience, or what TT tells you to say?  You are at a point where your answers are contradicting your previous answers so are you making all of this up just to continue the conversation? If so, I’ve gotta salute the multi year trolling because you had me fooled until your board response.

[Flojomojo]

Perrin Kaplan was touted as being “on the team” and her time with Nintendo was cited as important even as they said they weren’t doing the same thing as Nintendo and you definitely shouldn’t compare them with Nintendo, also Perrin Kaplan runs an expensive-looking marketing firm but the real marketing hasn’t started yet, and also whoops Perrin is no longer on the list of team members …

 

So often, their communications were delivered as if they thought nobody could go back check what they said the month before. 

[roots.genoa]

Funnily I remember Tommy posted several times that GIF in the Amico thread:

 

Maybe he was trying to say something. 🙂

[SegaSnatcher]

I've been grabbing some Playstation Underground releases to play on the PS1 core via MiSTer and look who shows up on Playstation Underground 3.1 release! 

"Tommy Tallarico successfully delivers on a guaranteed victory."    Is a quote we won't hear about for Amico. 

I'll try to capture the video footage and post for those interested.  It's nothing special, but if you want to see prime 90s Tommy it's worth a watch for the couple of seconds he's on. 

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by SegaSnatcher

[mr_me]

55 minutes ago, SegaSnatcher said:

Name me one successful company that started marketing their game console only 2 weeks before launch.  Just one.  I'm literally comparing to every company who ever had a successful game console launch. 

They started the Mom 2.0 sponsorship no later than July 2020.  That's three months prior to the targeted release.  They probably committed to it before that and obviously didn't proceed with other plans.

 

31 minutes ago, jerseystyle said:

So you have talked to us about marketing, engineering, retail, how corporate boards work… after your board response and how off base it was it really does call into question your other responses. So, are you basing your answers on insider knowledge, work experience, or what TT tells you to say?  You are at a point where your answers are contradicting your previous answers so are you making all of this up just to continue the conversation? If so, I’ve gotta salute the multi year trolling because you had me fooled until your board response.

I think it was the CFO that explained how they used the marketing consultant early on to establish a go to market strategy.  I'm not saying it's good or bad, I'm just saying what it is. What's the contradiction?  People here are bringing up the topics for discussion, not me.

 

24 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:

Perrin Kaplan was touted as being “on the team” and her time with Nintendo was cited as important even as they said they weren’t doing the same thing as Nintendo and you definitely shouldn’t compare them with Nintendo, also Perrin Kaplan runs an expensive-looking marketing firm but the real marketing hasn’t started yet, and also whoops Perrin is no longer on the list of team members …

 

So often, their communications were delivered as if they thought nobody could go back check what they said the month before. 

What is it that you're questioning?  That Zebra Partners was consulted for marketing strategy.  Their ability to advise startups.  According to the CFO, they were used early on, then they hired their own marketing lead to implement the plan, and even that has changed.

[rayik]

38 minutes ago, mr_me said:

They started the Mom 2.0 sponsorship no later than July 2020.  That's three months prior to the targeted release.  They probably committed to it before that and obviously didn't proceed with other plans.

 

What did the Mom 2.0 sponsorship consist of? 

 

I’m not asking what is Mom 2.0 or the Mom 2.0 conference / summit. 
 

I’m asking:

 

1) What did IE sponsorship consist of?

 

2) What did IE plan to do for the conference?

 

3) What did IE actually do in regards to the conference?

 

Reason I ask is Google search only returns a Press Release about IE being a sponsor. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by rayik

[MrBeefy]

2 hours ago, ColecoJoe said:

Chill out!

 

1 hour ago, Rev said:

Yall get a room!

Don't be jelly.

9 minutes ago, SegaSnatcher said:

I've been grabbing some Playstation Underground releases to play on the PS1 core via MiSTer and look who shows up on Playstation Underground 3.1 release! 

"Tommy Tallarico successfully delivers on a guaranteed victory."    Is a quote we won't hear about for Amico. 

I'll try to capture the video footage and post for those interested.  It's nothing special, but if you want to see prime 90s Tommy it's worth a watch for the couple of seconds he's on. 

 

Please don't.... 😱

1 hour ago, Flojomojo said:

Perrin Kaplan was touted as being “on the team” and her time with Nintendo was cited as important even as they said they weren’t doing the same thing as Nintendo and you definitely shouldn’t compare them with Nintendo, also Perrin Kaplan runs an expensive-looking marketing firm but the real marketing hasn’t started yet, and also whoops Perrin is no longer on the list of team members …

Former CEO seems to operate under the, "If I talk to you, we are good friends." This seems to be the same with the team. J Allard anyone?

 

They were trying to do the same thing as Nintendo and would just blow smoke anywhere to act like they were bigger and smarter than they were. L

Quote

So often, their communications were delivered as if they thought nobody could go back check what they said the month before. 

I think this is one reason the former CEO didn't like my threads. I wasn't a lap dog for him, and I was keeping track of what he said. Like his lie about SNAFOO being a pack in. It is obvious now he just said that to the person to manipulate them and put out fake good vibes.

 

I can tell why he hasn't been relevant in gaming since he is obviously stuck in the 90's, and seems to not know how gaming works, nor the internet. He obviously thinks he should have the ability to lie about anything and blame it on others when he is caught.

 

I think if there is any investigations or anything with IE they will get dingged for making a grand statements that aren't accurate. Like maybe having guaranteed revenue when it might not be accurate.

 

It seems like the Amico is the Wishcast console. That seems to have been the marketing strategy. 

[1980gamer]

I have a theory...   The October release would play nicely into a MLB commercial.

Playoff Baseball, showing Amico MLB baseball,  from Intellivision, the people with the first talking game.  Yer Out!

[1980gamer]

SNAFOO may have been intended to be a pack in and that was changed.

 

Changes are made for various reasons all the time, Poker and Blackjack was not intended pack in for the Intellivision.

 

If it were me and it is not...   I would save a game like SNAFOO as a controller pack in.   That is, when you expanded your system to 4 controllers, you get a 4 player game with it.

[mr_me]

25 minutes ago, rayik said:

What did the Mom 2.0 sponsorship consist of? 

 

I’m not asking what is Mom 2.0 or the Mom 2.0 conference / summit. 
 

I’m asking:

 

1) What did IE sponsorship consist of?

 

2) What did IE plan to do for the conference?

 

3) What did IE actually do in regards to the conference?

 

Reason I ask is Google search only returns a Press Release about IE being a sponsor. 

The conference has lots of sponsors.  They would have been one of them.  In addition to some advertising, their VP of marketing was listed as a speaker at the conference.

 

9 minutes ago, 1980gamer said:

SNAFOO may have been intended to be a pack in and that was changed.

 

Changes are made for various reasons all the time, Poker and Blackjack was not intended pack in for the Intellivision.

 

If it were me and it is not...   I would save a game like SNAFOO as a controller pack in.   That is, when you expanded your system to 4 controllers, you get a 4 player game with it.

They can of course change what games are packins anytime before the system ships and customers are made aware what the new packins are. At one time Snafoo was slated to be a packin and it was changed to Shark Shark, I believe.  I think all the packins are four player games some might be more.

[Matt_B]

8 hours ago, mr_me said:

Go ahead, compare marketing strategies, that's what we're talking about.  We're not talking about the ability to get them manufactured.

 

I know in the case of Playdate they used preorders paid in full to fund manufacturing.  So their marketing activity, whatever it was, had to be ahead of manufacturing.  If we're talking retro markets, the Amico was introduced to that market about two years prior to initial target release date.

They've done a lot more than just got them manufactured though. They're all seemingly selling very well, so I don't think you can fault them on the marketing front either. The Evercade is onto its third revision already and the Pocket and PlayDate are so heavily backordered that you wouldn't get one until next year if you bought them now. Maybe it's a bit too early to tell with the A500 Mini but it went straight into retail globally without much of a fuss, and has had a generally positive reception.

 

That's as opposed to things like the new Atari VCS and the Polymega that came out but pretty much got forgotten except by a tiny core group of users. They weren't so hot on the marketing, to spell it out.

 

It should go without saying that marketing and manufacturing should ideally be feeding off each other. I can't help think that Intellivision set themselves up to fail by needing to sell in huge quantities just to break even, at a price too close to the mainstream console market, and with a lack of distinct features.

Marketing was presumably just another of those things that they kept kicking down the road because, having been hamstrung by their failures in design and manufacturing, it was never going to be easy or obvious for what they were trying to create, regardless of how much money they could throw at it. I'd have thought that their only hope would be that one of the games might turn into a viral hit, but there doesn't seem an obvious candidate from what they've shown.

[MrBeefy]

10 minutes ago, Matt_B said:

They've done a lot more than just got them manufactured though. They're all seemingly selling very well, so I don't think you can fault them on the marketing front either. The Evercade is onto its third revision already and the Pocket and PlayDate are so heavily backordered that you wouldn't get one until next year if you bought them now. Maybe it's a bit too early to tell with the A500 Mini but it went straight into retail globally without much of a fuss, and has had a generally positive reception.

 

That's as opposed to things like the new Atari VCS and the Polymega that came out but pretty much got forgotten except by a tiny core group of users. They weren't so hot on the marketing, to spell it out.

 

It should go without saying that marketing and manufacturing should ideally be feeding off each other. I can't help think that Intellivision set themselves up to fail by needing to sell in huge quantities just to break even, at a price too close to the mainstream console market, and with a lack of distinct features.

Marketing was presumably just another of those things that they kept kicking down the road because, having been hamstrung by their failures in design and manufacturing, it was never going to be easy or obvious for what they were trying to create, regardless of how much money they could throw at it. I'd have thought that their only hope would be that one of the games might turn into a viral hit, but there doesn't seem an obvious candidate from what they've shown.

There isn't an obvious candidate and Cornhole looked boring unfortunately.

 

They are at the point that they kick it down the road because they don't want to make them.

 

I still think they wanted someone else to buy them and make the console. That explains the clownshow quite a bit and how they have yet to make anything. It was all an illusion.

[Rowsdower70]

13 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

There isn't an obvious candidate and Cornhole looked boring unfortunately.

 

They are at the point that they kick it down the road because they don't want to make them.

 

I still think they wanted someone else to buy them and make the console. That explains the clownshow quite a bit and how they have yet to make anything. It was all an illusion.

The two most obvious candidates that I saw were Cloudy Mountain and Night Stalker, which was quickly abandoned.

My theory is the "final hardware" they went with couldn't handle them and it was cheaper to just abandon them. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Rowsdower70
me no spel gud

[MrBeefy]

6 minutes ago, Rowsdower70 said:

The two most obvious candidates that I saw was Cloudy Mountain and Night Stalker, which was quickly abandoned.

My theory is the "final hardware" they went with couldn't handle them and it was cheaper to just abandon them. 

Cornhole and Snafoo both seemed to get graphical downgrades over time so that would not be surprising. Even Farkle seemed to struggle quite a bit. I think their controllers struggle as well with the various examples of lag and not functioning properly. I would be willing to bet a majority of games over the years were shown with phones for similar reasons.

 

From what I heard, not every prototype was optimized for every game shown off at those public events. So one might be optimized for one game but not another.

 

If they laid off their firmware people that is a sure sign they know it's dead as they don't plan on releasing anytime soon or just know it will be DOA and walk away after they get the money.

 

*Edit: While I liked Cloudy Mountain there wasn't anything that made it must have that I could get a similar experience on another console.

Edited August 17, 2022 by MrBeefy

[jerseystyle]

32 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

 

I’m offended that you branched out beyond Trailer Park Boys. However, awesome GIF.

[1980gamer]

This is strange...

[rayik]

2 hours ago, rayik said:

What did the Mom 2.0 sponsorship consist of? 

 

I’m not asking what is Mom 2.0 or the Mom 2.0 conference / summit. 
 

I’m asking:

 

1) What did IE sponsorship consist of?

 

2) What did IE plan to do for the conference?

 

3) What did IE actually do in regards to the conference?

 

Reason I ask is Google search only returns a Press Release about IE being a sponsor. 

 

1 hour ago, mr_me said:

The conference has lots of sponsors.  They would have been one of them.  In addition to some advertising, their VP of marketing was listed as a speaker at the conference.

 

 

Did IE ever state what their advertising at / with the conference would consist of?

 

Did IE state what individual was going to speak at the conference?  (Not just the title of a non-identified individual)

 

Reason I'm asking, is I don't recall IE stating what exactly this marketing at MOM 2.0 Conference would consist of.  Google search only returns an IE press release saying they were going to be a sponsor and were creating an Amico console.

Edited August 17, 2022 by rayik