Intellivision Amico’s trademark changed to ‘abandoned’

[Cebus Capucinis]

Also (double posting here): we can generally disregard any strategy or attempts to get a buyer past this point. I can tell you right now from experience any M&A buyer that sees potential securities regulation issues is going to demand a substantial indemnification provision and likely a massive indemnity escrow for the purchase price because securities liabilities are very, very easy to run into because the ways to violate the laws are manifold and expensive, intentionally or unintentionally - not casting aspersions in that direction.

 

It's likely any potential buyer would want RWI and probably a huge escrow/discount with MASSIVE due diligence on the potential fraud red flags, which gives it a greater than 50%, if not closer to 100%, chance that even were a buyer to not NOPE straight out from the gate, they're going to never sign a definitive purchase agreement once they see the numbers. Let alone the cluster that would be financial due diligence and assuming an RWI insurer would even pass a policy, which is highly unlikely given the "securities issues" - personal experience, but RWI insurers won't touch securities liabilities coverage with a 100000 foot pole.

 

If IE actually can attract a buyer, anticipate it being sold at a MASSIVE discount and unlikely to recoup indebtedness and liabilities (which any sane buyer wouldn't assume).

 

They either eat the losses and push forward independently (highly unlikely in my opinion) OR file for a Chapter 11 and hope for the best (which is actually a road for a buyer in a 163 sale with the non-securities liabilities discharged).

[MrBeefy]

12 minutes ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/0001658966/000121390021015823/filename1.htm

No. Material. Role.

Thanks!

5 minutes ago, MrTrust said:

 

No no no, we were all saying this stuff Sunday morning before the game started.  The booster club didn't want to hear it at the time, and now that the thing has blown up on the launchpad, you guys are talking about hindsight.

 

Those offices were ridiculous at the time they were showing them off, not just in hindsight, and many of us said so then.  This was classic 1990s dot com bust sort of behavior.  Your company has no revenue, no product, debt out the wazoo, and you're laying out thousands upon thousands of dollars on unnecessary office space and custom running man signage as if you were Sony or Nintendo?  You don't have to be Warren Buffett to understand that that is bad business.

 

Their sales projections and ideas about their potential serviceable market were absurd at the time.  I told Tommy that myself, and I broke down every single point where he was using data to create a false impression on his pitches.  There was no way they were going to do the kinds of numbers he was talking.  I'm not the only one who said that.  Lots of people said that, and not on Monday morning either.

 

It was obvious to anyone who was paying attention at the time that Tommy was exaggerating or flat-out lying about all kinds of different games and features being "worked on".  Where's Tron?  Where's the big, even bigger than EWJ4 launch game that Tommy said was happening but he couldn't tell us about?  Where's the Marvel beat-'em-up arcade game he said was "happening right now" over two years ago?  Where's all those dozens of games that were coming shortly after launch?  There's not one lick for code of any of that, guaranteed.  I'm not the only one who said that.  We've been saying it for two years now, well before Monday morning.

 

The price-to-spec ratio was out of whack well before the umpteenth price increase and then removing a controller.  I said that two years ago.  Show of hands; who else was saying that two years ago?

 

It's not Monday morning, dude.  I and everyone else who pointed out what a gong show this thing was turning into said all this stuff the whole the way through.  We were right; the defenders were wrong.  You guys don't get to hand wave away all the stupid, dishonest crap you defended with a "well, that's easy to say in hindsight".  It was easy to say in foresight, too.  It's not our fault you guys stuck your fingers in your ears and yelled lalalalalalala.

 

B-b-b-b-but Tommy said they were all phoney haters! 

 

Yup I was called a troll and worse for pointing out things weren't done like games, OS, and certifications.

 

They also took off the month of November 2020 to move in said office. Now let me remind anyone that was a month after their first launch date that they missed.

 

Parts and supplies were supposedly higher priced and hard to come by, so their response was to not work in securing anything, and move into an unnecessarily big and unneeded office.

 

The excuse from the deluded back then was that they were growing and needed the room. Now that they've abandoned it the deluded are saying it is because it is done and ready and not needed.

 

No most of us didn't need to watch the game on Sunday to know how this game went. I think calling it Monday morning quarterbacks is beyond moronic. IE can't even walk onto the field. If they believed in this and wanted to make it we wouldn't have this discussion.

 

No, it looks like at best IE made it to the locker room, but as soon as the quiet period started it was obvious they were trying to quietly leave to go home and wash their spider underwear they so profusely crapped in.

[1980gamer]

24 minutes ago, zapzapzac said:

Everyone else besides 1980 and Mr_Me: Wow, that investment video claiming J Allard being important on their team is misleading as fuck.

Can you show me EVER mentioning J Allard prior to this very post.   I'll save you the trouble...  You cannot.

 

But thanks for playing.

[MarioMan88]

4 minutes ago, 1980gamer said:

Haven't you heard about the droughts? 

I understand there is an Amico drought 😉

[number6]

27 minutes ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

I feel like this thread has just been 98 pages of cognitive dissonance. It's not even about the subject matter anymore.

True, but if you require more trademark facts you might be interested to know they have filed their 2nd extensions for:

Jungle Hunt & Bump 'N' Jump. Filed on August 10th and granted on the 12th.

This simply means they still have not been able to provide a statement of use in commerce, but are still paying money out to show ---intent- to do so in the future.

 

#6

[Cebus Capucinis]

1 minute ago, number6 said:

True, but if you require more trademark facts you might be interested to know they have filed their 2nd extensions for:

Jungle Hunt & Bump 'N' Jump. Filed on August 10th and granted on the 12th.

This simply means they still have not been able to provide a statement of use in commerce, but are still paying money out to show ---intent- to do so in the future.

 

#6

I'm not a trademark lawyer, so can't opine, but does anyone know how much it costs to file those extensions? I know IP law is....not cheap!....but if it's just a form filing, I can totally see even a sinking ship punting the $500-$1000 or so to keep those alive as long as possible, especially since that IP counts as value in the ever-sinking balance sheet. It would be pretty easy to justify that spend, even in a non-delusional but failing company.

[1980gamer]

9 minutes ago, MarioMan88 said:

I understand there is an Amico drought 😉

I have heard it has a checkered past.

[mr_me]

1 hour ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

Don't forget this one: February 20201 - "MAKING HUGE CONTRIBUTIONS"

 

March 2021 in the "'fess up to the SEC letter" - "No material role, sorry, we contract previous statements"

 

There's a reason that question was asked for clarification. I'm not getting into the specifics here, especially when a handful will just twist and disregard the statement, but I have....some... professional dealings with the SEC on a certain "requires a specific education and licensure level", and they don't ask questions like that unless there's some red flags for something. And the primary thing the SEC investigates red flags for is....potential.....SECURITIES FRAUD. Yeah, FRAUD! That little ol' word again.

 

I'm not giving a dissertation on the legal definition of fraud as the SEC sees it, suffice it to say there's some troubling indicators here that I'm sure they're continuing to keep an eye on. Agree or disagree however you want with that one.

That telephone call is not an investigation by SEC it's an inquiry.  They can decide if an investigation is required, there may be.  We know that the answer they provided SEC was not so much to explain Allard's contribution as it was to protect themselves.  It was written by lawyers with appropriate vagueness.

 

Edit:

And the question SEC asked shows that they aren't concerned so much with his leaving or even how much he contributed but how his leaving would affect the product.

 

 

1 hour ago, zapzapzac said:

 

I don't buy that you're innocent. I reject my earlier quip about you being addicted to argument. You are being intentionally deceitful and anyone who reads the link should be able to put that together. You are not existing in baseline reality, whatsoever.

 

No. The SEC did not ask for specifics about his role-- they asked if him being in that role had a material (in this case material means SIGNIFICANT) effect on the DEVELOPMENT of the Amico and would his leaving change future DEVELOPMENT of the Amico.

Intellivision/TT in that investor video: AVENGERS WITH J ALLARD
SEC: Has J Allard had significant impact on development of Amico?

Intellivision: No, sorry, WE HAVE REMOVED HIM FROM THE FILING due to the fact that he has not had a significant impact on the development of the Amico.

 

Everyone else besides 1980 and Mr_Me: Wow, that investment video claiming J Allard being important on their team is misleading as fuck.

You're a liar, mr_me. You are intentionally misleading everything. Let's call it for what it is. You're not objective. You're a liar, just like Tommy.

I'm not saying that what was said in that video is not misleading, I'm just pointing out what was actually in the SEC file along with what was said elsewhere about his work.  It's not nothing.  No, overall it's not significant, because as the file said he was only there during the final stages of hardware development.  That doesn't mean that, for example, suggesting changes to the product user experience isn't helpful.  And no the SEC did not ask if he had a material effect on Amico development, they only asked how his leaving would effect it or has effected it.

Edited August 14, 2022 by mr_me

[number6]

8 minutes ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

I'm not a trademark lawyer, so can't opine, but does anyone know how much it costs to file those extensions? I know IP law is....not cheap!....but if it's just a form filing, I can totally see even a sinking ship punting the $500-$1000 or so to keep those alive as long as possible, especially since that IP counts as value in the ever-sinking balance sheet. It would be pretty easy to justify that spend, even in a non-delusional but failing company.

Trademark Fee Information (uspto)

This cost is independent of any payments to their trademark attorney for preparing and submitting documents.

 

#6

[Rev]

31 minutes ago, 1980gamer said:

Can you show me EVER mentioning J Allard prior to this very post.   I'll save you the trouble...  You cannot.

 

But thanks for playing.

Ok, maybe he made one mistake, but what about the rest of his post?    Thoughts on it?   

[Rev]

Also, it looks like Mr. Me doesnt appear to be suffering from being dog piled on as previously stated.  He seems to enjoy the back and forth convo.   
 

Mr. Me, are you ok?   If not the safe word is: Amiiiiiiico! 
 

Edited August 14, 2022 by Rev

[1980gamer]

33 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

Yup I was called a troll and worse for pointing out things weren't done like games, OS, and certifications.

Maybe?  I wouldn't doubt it.

33 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

They also took off the month of November 2020 to move in said office. Now let me remind anyone that was a month after their first launch date that they missed.

 

Parts and supplies were supposedly higher priced and hard to come by, so their response was to not work in securing anything, and move into an unnecessarily big and unneeded office.

Did they really?  The people doing logistics were painting the walls and carrying boxes?  The contracted developers must have been doing the electrical and plumbing?

33 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

 

The excuse from the deluded back then was that they were growing and needed the room. Now that they've abandoned it the deluded are saying it is because it is done and ready and not needed.

Maybe some have said this back then.  It is a good assumption that I have recently voiced.  Do you think 10/10/2020 came and they said.  Darn, let's go find a big office space.

You don't think that space was secured months prior? 

33 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

 

No most of us didn't need to watch the game on Sunday to know how this game went. I think calling it Monday morning quarterbacks is beyond moronic. IE can't even walk onto the field. If they believed in this and wanted to make it we wouldn't have this discussion.

Believing in it and wanting to make it.  Wow, if that is all it took.  Life would be grand.

33 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

 

No, it looks like at best IE made it to the locker room, but as soon as the quiet period started it was obvious they were trying to quietly leave to go home and wash their spider underwear they so profusely crapped in.

Certainly, this is not playing out well for them.

 

I will also add, I don't know why TT stepped down?  But I may have nothing to do with IE or the board etc.

 

Either way, it hasn't seemed to have helped.  However, we get next to nothing from IE now, so who knows?

[1980gamer]

14 minutes ago, Rev said:

Ok, maybe he made one mistake, but what about the rest of his post?    Thoughts on it?   

Well, maybe 1 is a pattern?

 

I don't remember the rest of the post, kind of don't care at this point.  Was just correcting things *I* said at the time.

 

I am certain I have echoed incorrect info over the past 4-5 years?  Of Amico time.  I am certain I have taking things personally and said things to/at people also.

 

I will own and apologies for these transgressions.  I really don't care what people to say to me. Just don't put words in my mouth... or anything else for that matter! 

 

I was away for a little bit, came back and a lot of stuff was directed to Mr Me.  As if he was responsible for the Amico and the actions of TT.  

When he was/is clearly just trying to use the information available as accurately as possible.  Everything should be taking in context also.

 

We ( I am certainly included ) are all making certain assumptions.  Even with the facts we have.  Timelines etc.

 

Unless you were in the room and you have first hand, unedited information.  It is all just segments of facts. 

 

The only fact I am caring about at this moment is I do not have an Amico.  I wonder if it will ever see the light of day again in ANY form?

 

[MrTrust]

38 minutes ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

I feel like this thread has just been 98 pages of cognitive dissonance. It's not even about the subject matter anymore. It's instead become this intractable "must be right, us vs. them" mindset that was, as we know, openly cultivated early on.

 

Fair enough, but whether they "must be" or not, one side of the argument is right and the other is not.  The fact that IE were, at the very least, very disingenuous throughout this entire affair is so incandescently obvious that these semantic arguments about the definition of "scam" or whatever feel as though they're gaslighting.

 

41 minutes ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

As several have pointed out, the subject matter isn't WORTH this much argumentation, so it's got to be something else.

 

Well, like I said, I'm literally on the spectrum, so I'm practically unable to let something drift if I think somebody is making demonstrable error in reasoning.  I will not be able to focus on anything else until I've "corrected" them.  Rationally, I understand that this is a totally fruitless endeavor, but I can't make my brain shut up about it once it's been pinged off the subject.  So, for my part, I don't know if you've call that being addicted to the argument, but it is something like that.

 

Broadly, I think it's just the fact that the mendacity of IE, and Tommy in particular, is so manifest, so brazen, so pervasive that there really can be no rational explanation for it other than that they were being intentionally deceitful.  When you see people like mr_me, who are otherwise lucid and intelligent making excuse after excuse for what can really only be intentional deception, it feels almost insulting the amount of baloney they expect you to swallow.

 

People like to believe things that aren't true, but they really do not like to be told they're pricks for not believing something they can see for themselves is clearly not true.

 

 

[Razzie.P]

1 hour ago, zapzapzac said:

 

Say it. Say "I agree with MrBeefy, Intellivision likely lied about J Allard's role in these investment videos. I apologize for wasting everyone's time quoting something in direct support of MrBeefy's stance. I am addicted to argumentation."

 

1 hour ago, zapzapzac said:

You're a liar, mr_me. You are intentionally misleading everything. Let's call it for what it is. You're not objective. You're a liar, just like Tommy.

 

I get that you’re new here, and came straight to the lone Amico thread seemingly to antagonize – for which you’re apologized “to a point” – but FYI, this type of stuff has historically been proven to have people removed and has heavily contributed to the treads being locked.   Then those people show up in Reddit or somewhere with their “I didn’t do nuffin’ and that mean ol’ Abert kicked me out and locked all the threads” stories.

 

So yeah, no need for name calling, insults, making it personal, etc.   And if you think you can respond to someone as, err… adamant about their views as mr_me, with a command of “SAY THE WORDS!!” and that’ll force them into publicly changing their stance, then you’re clearly more easily trolled than the others he’s having fun with.  😁
 

[Razzie.P]

10 hours ago, CurlyQ said:

 

 

Aw man, why didn't you work your magic and put Tommy as the rider?

[Razzie.P]

1 hour ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

It's not even about the subject matter anymore. 

 

Yeah, I think people have just really wanted any sort of Amico thread for venting purposes, so anything "Amico related" that didn't get locked was bound to turn into a "Random Amico Crap" type of thing.

[MrTrust]

7 minutes ago, Razzie.P said:

I get that you’re new here, and came straight to the lone Amico thread seemingly to antagonize – for which you’re apologized “to a point” – but FYI, this type of stuff has historically been proven to have people removed and has heavily contributed to the treads being locked.   Then those people show up in Reddit or somewhere with their “I didn’t do nuffin’ and that mean ol’ Abert kicked me out and locked all the threads” stories.

 

I'm glad you said this.  I know he's a big boy and can take care of himself, but I've argued with Mr_me several times, and not just about the Amico.  He's annoyingly pedantic, but he seems like a good guy and I've never seen him be anything but respectful, and the level of hostility directed at him is uncalled for in my view. 

[digdugnate]

1 hour ago, MarioMan88 said:

I understand there is an Amico drought 😉

I'm waiting on parts.

[1980gamer]

7 minutes ago, digdugnate said:

1 hour ago, MarioMan88 said:

I understand there is an Amico drought 😉

I'm waiting on parts.

Until then..

 

[Pink]

50 minutes ago, Razzie.P said:

 

 

I get that you’re new here, and came straight to the lone Amico thread seemingly to antagonize – for which you’re apologized “to a point” – but FYI, this type of stuff has historically been proven to have people removed and has heavily contributed to the treads being locked.   Then those people show up in Reddit or somewhere with their “I didn’t do nuffin’ and that mean ol’ Abert kicked me out and locked all the threads” stories.

 

So yeah, no need for name calling, insults, making it personal, etc.   And if you think you can respond to someone as, err… adamant about their views as mr_me, with a command of “SAY THE WORDS!!” and that’ll force them into publicly changing their stance, then you’re clearly more easily trolled than the others he’s having fun with.  😁
 

And yet the former CEO gets a free pass for acting like this... 🤣

21 hours ago, SteveTheColecoDude said:

 

 

A couple more classics

 

 

 

Tommy previously said QVC not only wanted to sell the Amico on the air but wanted him on the show to promote it because of his charm and charisma (An obvious lie, but I digress) I'm sure if he acted like this on QVC the demographics that watch QVC and order products from it would absolutely love it and be more than thrilled & enthusiastic to buy a supposedly "family friendly" console from a gentleman like him 🤣🤣🤣

Edited August 14, 2022 by Pink

[MrBeefy]

2 hours ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

 

They either eat the losses and push forward independently (highly unlikely in my opinion) OR file for a Chapter 11 and hope for the best (which is actually a road for a buyer in a 163 sale with the non-securities liabilities discharged).

Word is they had someone willing to give them money if they filed for Ch 11. However, I think Sudesh said no to the filing. It would mean he loses his money.

 

I don't think anyone with any business savvy would touch them at this point. Their best chance was early 2020 when they had okay preorders and things seemed to be rolling.

 

I wish I could share more of what I know, but I'm sure given time some of it will come out eventually.

2 hours ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

I'm not a trademark lawyer, so can't opine, but does anyone know how much it costs to file those extensions? I know IP law is....not cheap!....but if it's just a form filing, I can totally see even a sinking ship punting the $500-$1000 or so to keep those alive as long as possible, especially since that IP counts as value in the ever-sinking balance sheet. It would be pretty easy to justify that spend, even in a non-delusional but failing company.

Them keeping their IPs is the smartest thing they could do. They can at least license them out for money. Even if it is just for an Evercade cart. That is easy low effort money.

 

We are suppose to get an update in days (not months) per Alvarado. I think my optimistic idea of what it will be is sending some units to influencers.

[+Lathe26]

2 hours ago, 1980gamer said:

I have heard it has a checkered past.

 

(someone beat me to the earlier Draughts joke)

[zapzapzac]

1 hour ago, Razzie.P said:

Then those people show up in Reddit or somewhere with their “I didn’t do nuffin’ and that mean ol’ Abert kicked me out and locked all the threads” stories.

You really think, after everything we know now, all of those bans were justified? No favoritism? No bans for being critical of Tommy? Also, say there was ad hominem and name calling, turns out people get very upset when you fuck with their money. All those people are GAMING RACISTS probably, right?

 

1 hour ago, Razzie.P said:

So yeah, no need for name calling, insults, making it personal, etc. 

 

I again apologize for before. My anger was inappropriate and generalizing the entire community is most certainly inappropriate. However.

 

Calling someone a liar is not "name calling." I am addressing clear observations of character. It's no different from referring to Tommy Tallarico as having Italian heritage, or being a musician, or being a liar. There are many pieces of evidence to support all of these claims. Just because one of these claims, having just as much evidence as the others, is insulting does NOT mean we should sweep it under the rug.

 

I came here to discuss the Amico. I want more products along this line that aren't scams. It's difficult to discuss the Amico when the thread is dominated by someone (mr_me) intentionally misleading, misdirecting, misquoting, and quite frankly, lying about the Amico. Won't apologize for calling a spade a spade. Won't apologize for taking fucking around with money seriously. They NEVER had to take pre-orders, they NEVER had to crowdfund, they NEVER had to release "physical products." That's where this has crossed the line into big boy world.

Edited August 14, 2022 by zapzapzac

[MattPilz]

I think this year was the most troubling regarding Intellivision's conduct. Phil came on board as CEO and through Jan-Feb he and Nick expressed intent on shipping units soon and a fixed launch date to be announced in February.

 

Nick conveyed this to potential investors on their $5M seeking Start Engine campaign. "Expect the team to publish a launch date in the next 30 days or so...Revenue is expected in 2022 as we push towards launch...We continue to push forward and will be announcing later this month when the initial units will be shipping..."

 

Phil conveyed this to viewers and past investors on his YouTube chat streams in February 2022. "The Intellivision Amico will release...we've actually committed to a release date by the end of February..."

 

There was one interview Hans gave on Twitch that was deleted but in part he committed to the idea that founders would be getting their units "within the coming weeks or months" and that general orders should be shipped "within six months."

 

All of those quotes above were from this year. Not during years past when sudden previously unanticipated chip shortages or uncertain manufacturing contracts were at play. It seems very unlikely that all of these officers of Intellivision sincerely believed a release was imminent and a fixed launch date to come, but they made these points at the time they were campaigning for $10M between Start Engine and a matched donor. Yet Phil later conceded that during this timeframe they actually lacked "visibility of our path to profitability." I don't understand why they'd run such a campaign that took a lot of effort to start, make all of those remarks and then later concede that at the time they actually didn't have a known path forward for revenue or profit.

 

This is what I would consider unethical conduct. I purposefully added myself to the Founders list and then paid $100 down on the heels of Phil's live stream this February where launch dates were said to be committed by the end of that month and the deposits fully safe and refundable. I then spent a month of time attempting to get a refund after waiting many months for any activity on that front, and received no correspondence so had to pursue a formal dispute to get that reimbursed. It's very unfortunate and certainly not a good look for the company going forward.

 

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by MattPilz