how to create a valid MyDOS partition?

[Beetle]

Hi Atarians,

how would i need to configure a partition on CF card (Ultimate 1MB with SIDE2 or Incognito) to be able to use it with MyDOS and not SpartaDOS?

 

I made a 65535 sector partition with 256byte sectors with SDX FDISK, set it to D7: and configured U1MB to SDX disabled, boot drive D1:

 

The Machine boots MyDOS from D1 (SIO2IDE, 16MB ATR) and i configured D7: as hi density drive with 65535 sectors, then saved DOS files to D1 before cold boot.

Now D7 is shown as "7H" in the info line of Mydos menu, as expected. Directory of D7 is full of garbled characters and graphic symbols. Initializing of Drive 7 fails with Error 136. 

 

Does someone have a hint for me? Otherwise i'd need to try mounting the 16MB ATR through the SIDE2 Loader and cold boot, but i can't save that config in a profile, i guess.

 

I also tried to initialize the partition D7: with the SDX format tool, but i could not set the drive Mode from Sparta to MyDOS...

 

Greetings and thanks in advance,

Beetle

[Beeblebrox]

After setting the partition did you format the partition,  say in sdx? 

[Beetle]

yeah, i formatted with SDX FORMAT tool, but was unable to change drive mode from "SPARTA" to anything else.

[Beeblebrox]

So you did.  Sorry reading this on a tiny screen whilst on the train. 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Beeblebrox

[+Peter Rabitt]

Hi I think I have run into the same problem... I don't want SDX for everything..

The trick I found is: do Fdisk the CL/SD card and do not format the partition with SDX.

Boot up Mydos and "I" the partition with it but add a "/n" before the partition as in ( I /n d7: ) Don't for get to set up the density and size with the "O" and the "P" command first.

I worked fro me.. I now have a CL with SDX and Mydos partitions... Also when you "Fdisk" Mydos only likes 256 not 512 ... SDX can do both..

By the way SDX will read both dir's but Mydos only reads Mydos dir's..

 

Hope this helps..

 

Peter

[Beetle]

Ah, the "/n" was all i am missing.... thanks!

 

[flashjazzcat]

For clarity, this is because without '/n', MYDOS attempts to issue a low-level format command on the volume, and since it's impossible to low-level format (by laying down tracks) a HDD partition, you get an error.

 

ATR emulation is different, BTW: it implements a 'dummy' format command (which returns a bogus bad sector list, since these are essentially emulated floppies), so you don't need the switch with disk images.

[Beetle]

and for future searches: it was Boot MyDOS > I > D7: /N  (/N behind the drive, not before), but the hint was completely correct!

 

Thanks again

Beetle

[_The Doctor__]

Having forgotten this simple /N switch I managed to mung things up royally in recent years, thanks for the reminder. Time to scribble in a manual since TL:DR rules , I at least can skim and find it when I forget again

[TheMontezuma]

On 9/21/2022 at 7:02 PM, Peter Rabitt said:

Don't for get to set up the density and size with the "O" and the "P" command first.

Can anybody help me with the setup?

I have IDE 2.0 Plus with a CF card.

Like Beetle, I made a 65535 sector partition with 256BPS with SDX FDISK and assigned it as D3.

 

I loaded MyDos from SIO2SD (D1).

Shall I issue "O" command first?

What answers shall I give? Drive size (in sectors): 65535 ?

What about command "P" and "I" ?

 

 

[+CharlieChaplin]

1) Option P:
Drive, density: 3,D
for drive 3 double density (or 4,D)

 

2) Option O:
- Drive number or Return: 3 (or 4; Return configures DOS)
- Remove drive: N
- Is drive configurable: Y
- High capacity drive: Y
- Number of sectors: 65535

 

3) Option I:
format drive: /N D3: (or /N D4:)
Press A for enhanced density,
Y to format drive 3: Y

 

The order of O and P can be exchanged, only I must be last.

Hope this works for you.

[TheMontezuma]

Thanks @CharlieChaplin

 

I think the order for option 'I' should be different:

D3: /N

 

However after confirming disk initialization with "Y" I immediately get an error code 139.

I just wondered - is there anything specific about IDE 2.0 Plus Interface - any settings that have to be changed for MyDos ?

Can I use FDISK from @flashjazzcat or do I need to use the toolkit from @drac030 for creating MyDos compatible partitions ?

 

[EDIT]

I could successfully format this partition (65535 sectors, 256 BPS) with SDX format command.

After deactivating SDX with IDE 2.0 switch and booting ATARI from MyDOS (from D1),

MyDos shows:

000 FREE SECTORS

when I try to display directory content of D3:

Edited October 28, 2023 by TheMontezuma

[drac030]

SDX format command can only create SpartaDOS file systems for HDD partitions. It can create a MyDOS disk, but in a very limited way: floppies only, and SD and DD only (90k and 180k).

 

On my dsk I have no partitions which can be formatted in MyDOS format (all 512 bytes per sector, so Sparta only). I remember though that I was several times able to boot MyDOS from an ATR image (on my IDE+, that is), then format another image using MyDOS menu. The command sequence was: O first, then I, and disk number with /N. I do not remember if the space was needed.

 

I tried to do that with an emulated IDE+ under Altirra, but when I wanted to add a 256-byte-per-sector partition there, the FDISK (v.4.85) unexpectedly has deleted the entire partition table. So I will now have to re-reate that somehow before proceeding...

[TheMontezuma]

I did one more test - I created a new disk with RespeQt (65535 sectors, 256 BPS) and I was able to format it using MyDos.

It looks like that it is a problem with APT partition or with IDE...

 

Long time ago (with old BIOS and with a partition created with FDISK2 from KMK Toolkit) I was able to create 256 BPS partitions, which could be formatted from MyDos.

 

[EDIT]

FYI:

I use 1GB CF card which I initialized with FDISK (4.73).

I have no FAT - the whole space is allocated for APT.

I created only one partition (65536 sectors, 256 BPS, D3, A--M flags).

As mentioned before, this partition could be formatted by SDX.

Edited October 28, 2023 by TheMontezuma

[drac030]

I have created a new VHD image under the emulator, used FDISK to create one partition on it, 65535 sectors, 256 bytes per sector. Booted MyDOS 4.55 from an ATR.

 

Choose "O" in the menu. "Drive number or Return?" 3. "Remove drive?" N. "Is drive configurable?" Y. "High capacity drive?" Y. "Drive size (in sectors)?" 65535.

 

Choose "I":

 

Choose "3":

 

Success, no problems whatsoever.

[+CharlieChaplin]

Another option is to use FMTDIR, the DOS Dir formatter by CSS.

Never used it with IDE+2, but it worked alright with Blackbox and msc-IDE.

 

 

MYDOSUS.zip

[TheMontezuma]

14 hours ago, drac030 said:

I have created a new VHD image under the emulator, used FDISK to create one partition on it, 65535 sectors, 256 bytes per sector. Booted MyDOS 4.55 from an ATR.

 

Choose "O" in the menu. "Drive number or Return?" 3. "Remove drive?" N. "Is drive configurable?" Y. "High capacity drive?" Y. "Drive size (in sectors)?" 65535.

 

Choose "I":

 

Choose "3":

 

Success, no problems whatsoever.

Thank you for testing.

At least now I know how it should work. However emulation is not the real hardware and my IDE 2 still does not work.

In the last step - initialization ('I') I get error code 139.

 

I tried to downgrade the IDE 2 bios, but I stopped at ver 1.2, since the interface did not recoginze the existing SDX partition (created with FJC FDISK).

Then I updated the bios to the latest 1.9 and SDX partitions work well again.

 

@drac030

I wondered if you could test it on the real interface? Maybe with another CF card, not to destroy your precious data

I think I have the revision C (I'm not sure how to tell):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by TheMontezuma

[TheMontezuma]

13 hours ago, CharlieChaplin said:

Another option is to use FMTDIR, the DOS Dir formatter by CSS.

Never used it with IDE+2, but it worked alright with Blackbox and msc-IDE.

 

 

MYDOSUS.zip 80.47 kB · 3 downloads

Thanks a lot, @CharlieChaplin

The tool formatted the partition without any issues.

However it shows the number of sectors found as 65534 (although I entered 65535 in FDISK).

I created more partitions and still formatting via MyDOS was failing (regardles if I entered 65534 or 65535 sectors) and was successful with FMTDIR.

 

I wrote DOS files on the hdd and could boot ATARI from it. I also copied some other stuff, like NUMEN demo and enjoyed how quickly it loads

 

 

 

 

[+CharlieChaplin]

Good to hear, that at least this tool works !

(Afaik, just like SIO2SD does not work with every SD-card, the IDE+2 does not work with every CF card.)

No clue why there are only 65534 sectors instead of 65535 sectors - unused sector 720 maybe ...  🤣

 

 

In the 90s I had a msc-IDE interface and think I had similar problems with formatting with MyDOS, so I simply used FmtDir, given to me by a friend who had a Blackbox. Also had a HDI interface for 1.44MB floppies in my collection and had difficulties formatting with 1.44MB, so I used the tools Percom.COM by Carsten Strotmann (Phoenix Softcrew) to format the HD disk and then FmtDir to create a valid directory. (There are newer versions of Percom.COM now by E.Puetz.)

 

[+Larry]

What board are you using to provide 90-degree use of the IDE+2?  Is there a memory expansion in there, and if so, did you try without the 90-degree adapter?  Probably a silly question, but did you clean the ECI contacts?  I've had trouble with that before.  And you might run drac030's RW-CRC to test the validity of the connection and card.  I've run into the "off by one" issue with several of Puff's software, most notably VTOCFIX.  I've always found it to be harmless.  You also might try drac030's original FDISK.COM.  Although IIRC, you can't use it with the more recent bios versions.  I think I'm still on 1.4, but have my Black Box hooked up ATM.  

[drac030]

38 minutes ago, TheMontezuma said:

In the last step - initialization ('I') I get error code 139.

Then there is probably something wrong with your copy of MyDOS. At least I would guess so. 139 is "unrecognized SIO command", and I saw under Altirra's debugger that MyDOS sends these commands: S, N, O, P. Out of these, "O" is not supported (it cannot be, because HDD partitions are not resizable), but MyDOS 4.55 ignores the status in this one case and proceeds. I think I remember MyDOS 4.50 behaving the same way.

 

Downgrading or upgrading the BIOS will not do anything in this respect, because this is not a bug, it has always worked so, even in the days of KMK/JŻ IDE.

 

38 minutes ago, TheMontezuma said:

I wondered if you could test it on the real interface? Maybe with another CF card, not to destroy your precious data

I do not have a CF card in my real interface, I use spinning-platter HDD. Also, having experienced adventures yesterday with adding one more partition under FDISK 4.85, I am of course quite a bit reluctant to do the same on my HDD.

 

Also, there is not a real point: Altirra emulation is rather good, it usually behaves 100% realistically (maybe except for the I/O speed, but that is a nuance).

32 minutes ago, TheMontezuma said:

However it shows the number of sectors found as 65534 (although I entered 65535 in FDISK).

BTW. I think "65535" in FDISK may mean 65535 "real" sectors, 512-bytes each. To setup a 256-byte partition it is probably enough to enter 32767, which indeed translates to 65534/256. I am not sure about it, though.

Edited October 29, 2023 by drac030
typos

[+CharlieChaplin]

8 minutes ago, Larry said:

What board are you using to provide 90-degree use of the IDE+2? 

 

Looks like the XE version of Midicar by Pancio...  (no RAM upgrade inside, so large Midi files should be loaded from harddisk).

 

[+Larry]

Thanks, never heard of that one @CharlieChaplin.

[+CharlieChaplin]

32 minutes ago, Larry said:

Thanks, never heard of that one @CharlieChaplin.

 

Here:

and the player here:

 

 

[flashjazzcat]

48 minutes ago, drac030 said:

I think "65535" in FDISK may mean 65535 "real" sectors, 512-bytes each. To setup a 256-byte partition it is probably enough to enter 32767, which indeed translates to 65534/256.

Multiple logical sectors are not packed into physical sectors, so 65535 is indeed the correct number regardless of the sector size (65535 sectors at 256 bytes each will result in a 16MB partition, albeit 256 bytes short of that since there's no sector 0).