What if Sega of Japan didn't release the saturn but instead focused all it's resources on the 32X

[Frozone212]

Not as an add-on mind you but as a full-fledged system as originally designed. No deadline, no rushing, everything works out as originally envisioned. Imagine for a second that Sony and 3DO don't exist. How well would it have done.

 

furthermore, would it be possible to make the Neptune according to the original specifications today?

[Flojomojo]

Oh goody, another counterfactual "WHAT IF" question. 

 

You know, if someone went back in time, and killed Hitler as a baby, World War II wouldn't have happened, and SErvice GAmes wouldn't have come to pass, and the Sega Genesis/Megadrive wouldn't, either! 

 

Sega Neptune was a lot like the Super Nintendo. Like the Sega CD and 32X, it would have split the market and SOA/SOJ would still have had their infighting. Nintendo would have dominated instead of being a peer of Sega in the 16-bit era. If 3DO and Sony didn't exist, someone else would have filled the multimedia 3D gaming niche, and the 32X would still have failed. 

 

What if the planet earth were a strawberry? Would we still have volcanoes?

[CapitanClassic]

The Sega Neptune wouldn’t have helped Sega survive long on its own. I made similar comments before in a related thread, but even without competition from other CD-rom manufacturers, you have competition from the PC market.

While it is true that a PC would set you back 10 times as much as a Sega Neptune, the computer market was booming. The price of games would drop over the years, from $70 to the market rate of $50, likely due to the inexpensive cost of manufacturing CDs. The PC was also capable of getting on the fledgling internet. A cartridge based game system was never going to be the future, as Nintendo found out with the N64 system.

 

It is funny to think the birth of the 32x was due to trying to respond to Atari’s Jaguar. With less than a year to bring the product to market, Sega of America did pretty good. If Sega’s 32-bit system was pushed to 1996-97 release date, that would give the 32x two to three years do develop software. There were only 40 games (34 without SegaCD) to release for the system, and most of the titles weren’t that amazing (Doom 32x port was impressive, John Carmack did an excellent job on the port, and it would be the most inexpensive way to play a fairly accurate port of Doom). Certainly more titles would have been released for it that would have sold well, (Ie Castlevania SoTN started out as a 32x title before being ported to PSX), but it’s all guess work. The 16-bit era was coming to an end, and by at least 1996 Sega would need a 32-bit system offering. Sure the 32x launch hurt the Saturn, since it didn’t look like Sega had focus or long-lived support for their hardware, but the Saturn architecture doomed itself.

[youxia]

Recommended reading on the subject:

 

https://www.raz-plus.com/books/leveled-books/book/?id=1441&langId=1

[Frozone212]

2 hours ago, youxia said:

Recommended reading on the subject:

 

https://www.raz-plus.com/books/leveled-books/book/?id=1441&langId=1

[Tanooki]

The thing is the 32X got screwed out of the gate, even people wanting to dismiss what if situations, the truth is, there is no answer, at least not an acceptable one.

 

Imagine for a moment they ignored optical(No SegaCD) until the Saturn and hadn't also pushed it up in an asinine panic 1/2 a year (say a Holiday 1995 release, not MAY).  The 32X might have done potentially alright depending how it would have been tapped into given you get those 2nd, 3rd generation games out there.  Had they not released at virtually the same time splitting the market 3 ways (SCD, 32x, saturn) it might have done alright as an accessory with nicer stuff to play, but a Neptune would have been dumb either way seeming like 2 new consoles on the market.

 

Had the 32X popped out late 1994, the Saturn then late 1995 it would have had a year to get some solid support, and prices would have dropped by then much like the Genesis/SNES price drops to move games.  Buy a 32X for $100 or buy a Saturn for $400.  it would have had this corner to work for at least a year or two, much like how GBA hung on with the so called DS as the third tier which GBA ended up being in the end.  The 32X for what it did get for the months of care it sadly got by designers of games showed it could do pretty decent work strapped onto the Genesis, and some games were quite nice.  Imagine if it had a year or more for people to really make games and exploit it not trying to scoot out some half baked effort to not lose out.  It's strange, but who knows.  The SVP on the one game was an overpriced joke at $100 for Virtua Racing, but VR on the 32X was pretty sweet.

 

[Steven Pendleton]

I want no involvement in existing in a world that does not have the Sega Saturn, the second greatest home console of all time.

[Kirk_Johnston]

Yeah, I think it would make much more sense to imagine a world where the 32X was ditched completely and the Saturn came directly after the Genesis [and Sega CD, I guess--unless we can ditch that too].

 

Basically, I think the console generations for Sega and Nintendo should have went like this up until that point:

 

Sega: Master System, Genesis, Saturn.

Nintendo: NES, SNES, N64.

 

And then it would have been really interesting to see how that would have played out by the time of the third generation.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Kirk_Johnston

[Tanooki]

I hope that wasn't directed at me.  I never said Saturn didn't exist, just that it came out when it should have, not when it stupidly was rushed into.  I imagined where the SegaCD never would have been born, and in the end, it would have been no big loss all things considered.

[Steven Pendleton]

1 hour ago, Tanooki said:

I hope that wasn't directed at me. 

It wasn't.

[Rhomaios]

I think it's OK to ask how the 32X would have fared if Sega didn't split its attention, but assuming that Sony didn't exist is just nonsense. Sony exists. There's no point in this exercise if we're just going to ignore major players on a whim.

 

WHAT IF NINTENDO AND ATARI AND NAMCO AND COLECO AND AND AND DIDN'T EXIST????!? THEN SEGA #1 IN TEH WORLD!!11!!one!1

Edited September 30, 2022 by Rhomaios

[DeathAdderSF]

I hate "what if" threads. Speculation is the enemy of the people. 😩

 

That said, I'm posting here anyway on account of I'm a big 32X fan and wish to simply state that I wish the system had been released earlier, under different circumstances, and had been a smashing success. Nothing against the Saturn but I dislike disc-based gaming in general so it was never a blip on my radar. Cartridges FTW. Although Saturn did have the Best. Gamepad. Ever. So there's that.

 

BUT!!

 

As the 32X was a sad case of too little, too late... *shrugs* Meh. No biggs. I can still enjoy it for what it is and what we got. Or at least I would, if I hadn't sold it a couple'a years ago. C'est la vie...

[Tanooki]

I'd like to experience the 32x, but on a console (I use the Mega Sg and Nomad) just isn't practical or possible so because I'd be stuck with emulation I don't bother.

 

I kind of wish the Mega would via the mega everdrive could do 32X that way but it's a non-starter and I don't recall anyone jailbreaking and adding cores to it either like the NES (and now Pocket) has had happen which is a tad annoying.  Most my play was like 15-20 years ago using steve snakes awesome Kega Fusion.

[Guest]

On 9/27/2022 at 5:24 PM, CapitanClassic said:

funny to think the birth of the 32x was due to trying to respond to Atari’s Jaguar.

Really? Sega was that concerned-worried about Atari jumping back into the home console market? Doesn't seem possible. huh.

 

On 9/27/2022 at 5:24 PM, CapitanClassic said:

The Sega Neptune wouldn’t have helped Sega survive long on its own.

But if it was released I'd have one hooked up to my TV today! Love the idea of Genesis/32x all in one console. I'm hoping the guys at Analogue add 32x support someday. Even if that means a new console.

[MrTrust]

Two things we can say with absolute certainty would happen if the scenario you describe came to be:

 

1.  There would be a thread on these forums titled "What would happen if the Neptune was released as an add-on for the Genesis called 32X and the Sega Saturn was the only 32-bit standalone console?"

 

2.  The thread would be full of people bitching about the existence of the thread and all others like it, while nevertheless participating in it and proffering their theories.

 

Tell me it would not happen.

[roots.genoa]

7 hours ago, MrTrust said:

Tell me it would not happen.

It would not happen.

 

Well, I have no idea, but you asked. 😉

[Lostdragon]

8 hours ago, Zeptari1 said:

Really? Sega was that concerned-worried about Atari jumping back into the home console market? Doesn't seem possible. huh.

 

 

Well... 

 

 

The claim seems born from the quote of a single Sega individual from a single interview, unless i am very much mistaken. 

 

 

Retrogamer' Magazines article, which can also be found in their Videogames Hardware Handbook Vol. II, looking at the 32X and the source used  explains that the concept  for the 32X was to respond to the Atari Jaguar.

 

 

The individual in question was  Scot Bay less, senior producer at Sega during that time:

 

"...but the essence of the call was that we needed to respond to Atari's Jaguar and we needed to do it right away."

 

However when you look at other Sega staff quotes from the time itself. 

 

 

Bill White, Sega USA V.P/Head Of Marketing:

 

'The question we ask ourselves-and this is based on their (Atari's) prior experience -is that they may fall into the same trap of launching hardware (Jaguar)without adequate software support.

 

Looking at what's been seen in the states, we don't see anything to get too worried about' (responding to Atari's claim Sega and Nintendo are the people we have to beat).

 

 

 

Sega's Tom Kalinske, talking  in April 1995:

 

'I don't believe the current Jaguar is powerful enough to compete with the new machines and there's not enough great software out there to support it.

 

They've done a better job recently of getting some other decent games out for it but it's not enough to save it.It's too little, too late.'

 

 

Personally I found it to be a classic Retrogamer magazine article, the writer hasn't really looked at the opinions and statements at the time from multiple Sega sources, instead using the personal thoughts of a single source, as the bias for an article. 

 

 

That's a fools errand in itself. 

 

Sega never gave the impression they were scared of the Jaguar at time, they joined the rest of the industry feeling Atari lacked the resources and understanding to compete in the console market and how right they were. 

[Greg2600]

Kalinske pushed for the 32x because Sega had virtually nothing good in the Genesis pipeline to compete with the late-stage SNES offerings, many of which were some of the best of the 16-bit era.  They couldn't get 3rd parties to go in on the SVP chip, either.  Saturn was almost 2 years off, and Sega had very little new product wise to offer.  I've found a good part of the blame was that Sega of Japan never put the kind of resources into software, not like Miyamoto's team at Nintendo, who could sell tens of millions of every first party IP they had.  This wasn't "corrected" for nearly 5 years when the DC debuted.  Sega had also shifted their arcade business far more heavily into licensed product making home ports more of a nightmare, as soom foolishly took money for exclusivity from the likes of Tiger! 

 

They could never have "stayed" with 32x because while it ran 3D far better than say SNES, it was awful compared to the true 32-bit consoles many of which also flat out stunk.  3D console-gaming really didn't get ushered in until the Saturn/PS1 in 1995.  Sega were also left in the cold on 2nd party devs, which were being gobbled up by Sony and then Nintendo, producing the best work on each console particularly with platform games.  Naughty Dog and RARE alone spanked most of the Sega 32x/Saturn library. 

 

As for the OP's query, I'm not sure it would have mattered.  Most believe that Saturn's development and support of developers were horrendous.  Why would a "fully-fledged" 32-bit console designed 1.5-2 years earlier been any better?  It may have worked out far worse for Sega especially in Japan, to be saddled with something as out of date as 3DO or Jaguar.

[+Gemintronic]

Sega at the time would never trust their American side to do what they needed to do with the 32x.  Without full support no technical, third party developer or marketing power could save it.

[Lostdragon]

17 hours ago, Greg2600 said:

Kalinske pushed for the 32x because Sega had virtually nothing good in the Genesis pipeline to compete with the late-stage SNES offerings, many of which were some of the best of the 16-bit era.  They couldn't get 3rd parties to go in on the SVP chip, either.  Saturn was almost 2 years off, and Sega had very little new product wise to offer.  I've found a good part of the blame was that Sega of Japan never put the kind of resources into software, not like Miyamoto's team at Nintendo, who could sell tens of millions of every first party IP they had.  This wasn't "corrected" for nearly 5 years when the DC debuted.  Sega had also shifted their arcade business far more heavily into licensed product making home ports more of a nightmare, as soom foolishly took money for exclusivity from the likes of Tiger! 

 

They could never have "stayed" with 32x because while it ran 3D far better than say SNES, it was awful compared to the true 32-bit consoles many of which also flat out stunk.  3D console-gaming really didn't get ushered in until the Saturn/PS1 in 1995.  Sega were also left in the cold on 2nd party devs, which were being gobbled up by Sony and then Nintendo, producing the best work on each console particularly with platform games.  Naughty Dog and RARE alone spanked most of the Sega 32x/Saturn library. 

 

 

Sega were also i seem to remember, trying to support the following platforms (to varying degrees) , all at one time:

 

Saturn, Genesis, Sega CD, Game Gear, Nomad, Pico, and the Master System and 32X

 

 

 

 Sega Enterprises CEO Hayao Nakayama then made the  decision  to focus on the Saturn? 

 

 

 

 

[Greg2600]

16 hours ago, Lostdragon said:

Sega were also i seem to remember, trying to support the following platforms (to varying degrees) , all at one time:

 

Saturn, Genesis, Sega CD, Game Gear, Nomad, Pico, and the Master System and 32X

 

Sega Enterprises CEO Hayao Nakayama then made the  decision  to focus on the Saturn?

Well Sega CD, Nomad, and to a degree 32x were marketed under the Genesis umbrella.  All were cut effectively EOY 1995 to focus on Saturn.  Game Gear was a portable, which like Pico were kind of separate.  Master System was dropped in the US several years earlier.  Also don't forget that Majesco "revived" several systems including Genesis, Master System and Game Gear, and rode out most of the rest of the decade, in the US.  Technically outlasting the Saturn.