"2600 Plus" My modernized 2600 console project

[john_q_atari]

16 hours ago, Matt300ZXT said:

Oh that is awesome! I'd almost be tempted to buy one and build it to use as a test bench for chips when I get them in on Ataris that need some tlc.  Are you going to market the boards?

I hadn't decided if I was going to market anything, other than I decided early on that I wasn't going to be selling assembled boards. If someone in the US has sold hobby related things in the past and dealt with related tax reporting I would welcome their PM. I did have extra boards made up when I started this project. If I make anything available the highest likelihood would be the boards, followed by a partial kit of the odds and ends pieces specific to the 2600 Plus that are much cheaper to acquire in bulk. In that case the end user would be responsible for acquiring the rest of the parts themselves and for the assembly. If this appeals to anyone they can feel free to PM me to register their interest and I will keep that in mind if I ever decide to go through the effort of selling anything.

[Keatah]

You don't actually have to sell anything.

 

You could just give us the board. And we could just give you money. Two separate unrelated activities!!

[Dopy25]

I too would be willing to give you some money, you know like a friend would need to borrow for gas or something, with no intent on ever returning said money. 

[john_q_atari]

23 minutes ago, Dopy25 said:

I too would be willing to give you some money, you know like a friend would need to borrow for gas or something, with no intent on ever returning said money. 

Understood. Sending a private message to express interest is sufficient.

[hizzy]

How are people not losing their minds over this? What a great step forward! 

[+SvOlli]

On 10/18/2022 at 3:07 PM, WhyLee commotari.club said:

Maybe the RGB2HTMI would be an interesting solution.

Would it be? What you do about audio? The big problem with RGBtoHDMI is that there is no way have audio in the HDMI data stream except for an external HDMI audio mixer.

Edited October 26, 2022 by SvOlli

[WhyLee commotari.club]

On 10/26/2022 at 5:31 PM, SvOlli said:

Would it be? What you do about audio? The big problem with RGBtoHDMI is that there is no way have audio in the HDMI data stream except for an external HDMI audio mixer.

you are right.
however, in my case, i would go to my hifi stereo set with analog cinch. and hdmi to my tv.
i already use my stereo set to watch movies etc. so, for me this is not a problem.
but i understand. it would be more convinient to have the audio stream integrated in the HDMI signal for people who don't use an extra stereo set.
 

[sbelyo]

This is just what I've been looking for.  PM sent

[+Andrew Davie]

Look out soon for my "building the 2600 Plus" blog/thread.

I'll be going through the from-scratch build of this interesting project, documenting the process in pictures.  Most particularly everyone can get to laugh at all the silly assumptions I've made and have a reference for avoiding making the same mistakes.

[insertclevernamehere]

On 10/13/2022 at 5:19 PM, Keatah said:

To make a clone, another VCS has to give up its chipset.

I don't think Collectorvision used old Colecovision parts to make the Phoenix.  Nor does Analogue do that for its clone consoles so why is this so impossible for the Atari 2600?  I'm not being difficult, I'm just not very technical and would like to understand.

[Keatah]

Despite what people claim (and like to think) FPGA isn't an exact clone of the original console's circuitry. It behaves differently, especially at power-on time. And collectorvision and analogue are using FPGA.

 

So you either get original chips. Or use ones that are "close enough".

 

I should have said 100% accurate clone. The 98% clones can be done with FPGA.

[insertclevernamehere]

2 hours ago, Keatah said:

Despite what people claim (and like to think) FPGA isn't an exact clone of the original console's circuitry. It behaves differently, especially at power-on time. And collectorvision and analogue are using FPGA.

 

So you either get original chips. Or use ones that are "close enough".

 

I should have said 100% accurate clone. The 98% clones can be done with FPGA.

Ok, got ya.  98% is good enough for me if it means having a reliable and convenient alternative to using aging and increasingly rare, unreliable and expensive original tech such as the 2600 itself and crt tv's.  I love using my original 2600 hooked up to a crt but I worry about how practical that will be as time goes on.  I don't like to tinker with machines.  I barely have enough time to play the games, let alone have to learn and practice soldering and technical skills in order to maintain my hobby.  The Retron 77 is not a good enough alternative.  It isn't as durable as I'd like and it doesn't play the more complex homebrew carts.  Plus there's the issue of it not really playing the carts in the first place, which is a turn off for many, even if I personally don't really give much of a.  
 

If a 98% accurate fpga 2600 console is technically feasible without having to use donated parts from original 2600s, and it is 100% compatible with all homebrews, has built in AtariVox capability, maybe 4 joystick ports, maybe the ability to use wireless controllers, maybe has 7800 compatibility seeing as the 7800 is backwards compatible with the 2600 anyway, I'm sure I would be one of MANY people on AtariAge that would be interested in snapping at least one up.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

If you want 98%, you can go with an emulator as well. 

[+batari]

On 10/25/2022 at 2:33 PM, hizzy said:

How are people not losing their minds over this? What a great step forward! 

Probably because it's been done several times before. However, I don't recall actually being able to buy the others, so maybe this one will be one we can actually have.

 

That being said, a glance at the board looks like the FMS6400 chip might be behind the video output? If that is the case, I have a number of compatible chips I would be willing to donate should there happen to be a shortage of them out there. It might be the ML6428 chip I have instead, but as I recall, it was very similar and compatible. I had bought these years ago when I thought I might sell video mods, but I never really got into that.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

How much would this cost? Especially for people who cannot solder?

[john_q_atari]

1 hour ago, batari said:

Probably because it's been done several times before. However, I don't recall actually being able to buy the others, so maybe this one will be one we can actually have.

 

That being said, a glance at the board looks like the FMS6400 chip might be behind the video output? If that is the case, I have a number of compatible chips I would be willing to donate should there happen to be a shortage of them out there. It might be the ML6428 chip I have instead, but as I recall, it was very similar and compatible. I had bought these years ago when I thought I might sell video mods, but I never really got into that.

I have extra boards available and I did purchase a small supply of the odds and ends so if more people want to build it in the future that is certainly a possibility. The chip used is FMS6400CS1 which is long discontinued but still available. I have a small amount of them. In fact I just bought 20 more as they are cheap and potentially convenient to have around.

 

 

[john_q_atari]

2 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

How much would this cost? Especially for people who cannot solder?

The cost of a 2600 with functioning chips and the time to desolder the cartridge connector, or ~$65 plus shipping for those parts from best electronics. plus ~$40 plus shipping for various components from Mouser, plus the cost of some other switches and jacks and usb-c interface board and FMS6400, ~$20?, plus the circuit board, plus a wall wart if you need one, plus 2 or 3 hours of someone's time to solder the thing together. So I guess its around $150 in parts plus any tax and shipping from suppliers plus the cost of 2 or 3 hours of someone's time to assemble it. It's more of a hobby build vs. a finished product for sale.

[+Andrew Davie]

35 minutes ago, john_q_atari said:

The cost of a 2600 with functioning chips and the time to desolder the cartridge connector, or ~$65 plus shipping for those parts from best electronics. plus ~$40 plus shipping for various components from Mouser, plus the cost of some other switches and jacks and usb-c interface board and FMS6400, ~$20?, plus the circuit board, plus a wall wart if you need one, plus 2 or 3 hours of someone's time to solder the thing together. So I guess its around $150 in parts plus any tax and shipping from suppliers plus the cost of 2 or 3 hours of someone's time to assemble it. It's more of a hobby build vs. a finished product for sale.

+ a 3d printed shell that looks like the original VCS.  That's a must

[Keatah]

8 hours ago, insertclevernamehere said:

Ok, got ya.  98% is good enough for me if it means having a reliable and convenient alternative to using aging and increasingly rare, unreliable and expensive original tech such as the 2600 itself and crt tv's.  I love using my original 2600 hooked up to a crt but I worry about how practical that will be as time goes on.  I don't like to tinker with machines.  I barely have enough time to play the games, let alone have to learn and practice soldering and technical skills in order to maintain my hobby.

I was gonna say that as long as tech skills are around, the 2600 can live a lot longer. Video mods can alleviate the issues caused by dwindling supplies of nice CRTs. I loved to tinker with machines in the past. A lot. A real whole lot. Much less so today. But without a doubt tech skills are going to come in handy more and more often when working with this old stuff, and I'm happy to have developed them.

 

I'm an emulation buff and I always promote it as solid solution for the future. I absolutely love the consistency, hadn't had to adjust the video settings like forever once I dialed them in. Love the versatility & portability, play anytime on any PC-based machine. And more. And of course the convenience of organizing everything without taking up a ton of space. Being able to find any game for any system instantly. Including docs and scans and more.

 

I like a small 10x10'ish sized non-symmetrical den. Or maybe bigger. Filled with old-man books and other non-videogame related items. Like a telescope and SW radio and astrolabe. With a dash of Bohemian/Rustic flavor. A complete contrast to the modern minimalist decor of the rest of the house. It's like entering a different world. And here emulators are essential as they fit right in there without consuming space.

 

8 hours ago, insertclevernamehere said:

 The Retron 77 is not a good enough alternative.  It isn't as durable as I'd like and it doesn't play the more complex homebrew carts.  Plus there's the issue of it not really playing the carts in the first place, which is a turn off for many, even if I personally don't really give much of a.

I'd just go with Stella on a tiny PC - and gain access to tons of other stuff too. I can't condone that shitty cartridge reader no matter now novel it may be.

 

8 hours ago, insertclevernamehere said:

If a 98% accurate fpga 2600 console is technically feasible without having to use donated parts from original 2600s, and it is 100% compatible with all homebrews, has built in AtariVox capability, maybe 4 joystick ports, maybe the ability to use wireless controllers, maybe has 7800 compatibility seeing as the 7800 is backwards compatible with the 2600 anyway, I'm sure I would be one of MANY people on AtariAge that would be interested in snapping at least one up.

Oh it's technically feasible, don't sell the idea short. It's only a matter of someone with the same vision AND the technical prowess to make it happen. And there are ways and methods to having 6507/TIA/RIOT behave exactly like the original parts, I just haven't seen anyone come at it from the right angle, yet.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

6 hours ago, Andrew Davie said:

+ a 3d printed shell that looks like the original VCS.  That's a must

Does it fit into an original shell?

[juansolo]

On 10/14/2022 at 1:02 AM, CapitanClassic said:

I have attempted to fix LCD tvs, but wouldn’t trust myself around one of the old CRTs. It makes me nervous knowing that you need to discharge the giant capacitor on those tvs. I had to correct an issue with a dish washer pump/filter, and the capacitor on that thing was massive (I was very careful when handling it).

 

It does feel great to fix your own stuff though. It’s too bad society has moved toward planed obsolescence.

CRTs are one of those things with seriously high voltage kicking around inside that you really shouldn't be inside unless you know what you're doing. I've re-capped a couple, but I still know my limits when it comes to them and there's just stuff in there I won't go near because I've never been properly trained to do so (despite the fact I used to do so as part of my job in the past. Ah those heady days of zero health and safety rules...).

 

But yeah, fixing stuff is where it's at. It's deeply satisfying to buy spares/repair/broken old consoles and computers and bring them back to life. Most of my favourite ones are the lost causes that would likely have ended up in landfill if they'd not ended up with me. I don't have any pristine CIB consoles. Just about all of them have stories.

[Maraakate]

Hi Andrew,

 

Awesome work.  If you plan on making the bare boards available with a mouser or digikey parts list I'd be interested in one.  Would be nice just for the simple fact that you could have a new PCB that could be upgraded to 1% tolerance resistors in an effort to reduce colour drift during warmup and for long term reliability.  The 6-switcher (and probably pre-jr, yes?) PCBs are difficult to desolder and replace components on.  Almost as difficult as the vectrex.

[john_q_atari]

1 hour ago, Maraakate said:

Hi Andrew,

 

Awesome work.  If you plan on making the bare boards available with a mouser or digikey parts list I'd be interested in one.

Actually I created the 2600 Plus. There are some extra PCBs available as well as a Mouser parts list you can click on to order parts directly from Mouser. PM me for details. As for color drift I would expect that to be a function of the TIA chip and not the resistors.

 

Also for anyone who may be interested, I might have a few extra assembled 2600 Pluses in a few months. PM me for details if you might be interested.

[Prizrak]

One assembled would be cool considering some of us folks aren't good at soldering/assembly.

[+Atari2600PAL]

Any possibility of buying a PCB and shipping to the UK please?