ColecoVision adapter for the Master System - available now!

[+Apocalypse]

8 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

I got mine this afternoon. It has been working great so far as I haven't had any lockups or anything. The palate output is a bit wonky though with some games. it isn't that it is too dark but just different all around I think. There are a few things I wanted to mention though.

 

The methods for accessing the keypad work okay in some instances, but I'm not able to get those lower pad buttons especially stuff like * and # to register with my controllers that I've tried to use. Just too tough for me to have a button pressed while also trying to use the thumbpad in a certain direction all the while also trying to keep that pause button held down.

 

For some reason I thought an on screen display would pop up when needing to choose the keypad buttons but I see now I was mistaken on that. 

 

It does NOT work with the pause mod being done on an SMS console. Or rather, it doesn't work when using the pause from the controller remote button. This is because that button and mod is registering two directions at once being pressed down already to trick the logic into triggering the pause on. As a result this interferes with the Colecoco Master from seeing the controller functions. But, using the actual pause button on the console does work.

 

I did discover something by accident for those of us using BBPro carts... we already know the menu is buggered up looking. But try this...

 

Load up Nova Blast or Oil's Well and once the game starts, then press and hold the back to menu button on the BBpro... Should get something like in this video I made just a bit ago:

 

 

So yeah, I have to assume that something with nova blast or Oil's Well is setting the video mode a certain way that when resetting the BBPro after those games load, will then allow for the menu to display properly. Does this help narrow down anything on this that could help the menus work all the time and possible help the AtariMax users as well?

 

I will state that wonky colors aside, it looks fantastic and works through my RGB bypass on my SMS that I have installed. There is some additional hissing in the audio that isn't as loud when playing SMS games so I do wonder if this is introducing some noise there somehow? 

 

I've got a few homebrews that I've tried with it and some work without issue, and some work but do exhibit some graphic glitches that actually affected game play:

 

- Risky Rick        This one is a no go. It just gives a black screen but I can occasionally see what might be the Insert Game screen blink on for a bit? is that replicated with this cart?

- Void                 Works without any issues that I can see

- Suite Macabre   This one is a no go as well and just gives a black screen when trying to load

- Astro Invader    This one loads up and will play but has lots of graphical glitches on the screen. Still works and plays otherwise.

- Fireworks Factory  This one will load up and start to play. But when letting the hoses go back to their spools, there will sometimes appear glitching with some of the hose sprite being replicated on the ladders. When this happens you character is unable to go up and down the ladders where that stuck sprite object is. So essentially playable but gets to a point where you can't play or get stuck.

 

I did test my AtariMax and it loads up fine but like others have stated, it only shows like the first 5 or 6 games in the list and it totally black on the lower half of the screen from there. But I can actually still move the controller and hear that it is selecting other games. I can also start them but just can't see their titles before hand similar to what the BBPro does.

 

For the keypad, left thumb on the diagonal, right on button 1 and right pointy on the pause button.

Not ideal I agree but that's the best I could come up with.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

5 hours ago, Apocalypse said:

For the keypad, left thumb on the diagonal, right on button 1 and right pointy on the pause button.

Not ideal I agree but that's the best I could come up with.

Perhaps it is easier with an actual SMS controller but I think part of the issue is that again, my controllers are modified for the remote pause function and it just seems to be a bit fiddly with those. All of my controllers for use with my SMS have a similar modification or design for that remote pause built into them. Also with my arcade style controller I have that I like to use, the buttons are arcade sized and further apart so it requires two hands to use it and not possible to hold down that pause as a result.

 

So yeah, I would advise that a NES style controller be used for easier access to these functions.

 

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I tested a few more homebrew roms that I have last night and found out that my rom of Suite Macabre will actually load up and run just fine on the adapter through my BBPro. The actual cart just gives a black screen. But then again, the actual cart tends to lock up on the third screen of the game on actual hardware too so I'm not that surprised.

 

My modified Rom of Risky Rick will load up, but all the text in the game shows glitched including the title screen logo text. It also doesn't seem to recognize the button presses properly as I can eventually get a game to start, but then all that registers is the jump button action. No direction controls or anything else. Worse, is that it seems to cause this issue on the entire console as resetting back to the BBPro menu will result in no controller response until I power the console off/on again. So yeah, Risky Rick appears to do something kinda funky to the whole thing.

 

I was able to get one of the Sydney Hunter Caverns of Death to load up and play but the title screen logo is glitched as I believe all the text was at the beginning. But the actual game seems to play without issue after that.

 

In playing with the games that allow my BBPro menu to come up properly, it seems that starting with Nova Blast and up to Popeye will all allow the menu to come up properly. Games before and after those, will result in the same glitched menu screen on the BBpro we have all seen so far. I've NO idea why choosing games in those spots will allow a reset on the BBPro to then show properly but that is what I'm experiencing with mine.

 

What I will do later is to just put a few roms onto the SD of my AtariMax to see if they play any differently than from the BBPro in regards to text glitches and such. But as the menu screen on my AtariMax only shows like 5 or 6 games it makes it tough to navigate beyond that.

 

[RockLobster]

1 hour ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

In playing with the games that allow my BBPro menu to come up properly, it seems that starting with Nova Blast and up to Popeye will all allow the menu to come up properly.

I wish I could reproduce this.  I upgraded my BBPro firmware from 3.8.9 to your 3.9.0 and no change in behavior.   I forget, are you on a stock N.American SMS Model 1 also?  I wonder if it's not these games per se but rather a position or number of entries since your dir structure is different than mine.   I've tried selecting diff games, going up and back in the directory to mimic your earlier posted video.

 

It'd be great of @Apocalypse could send a Colecoco to @evietron so the great minds can have a small convo.

 

As it stands, @Digital Fluff's Chameleon cartridge is the only flashcart that seem to enumerate games w/o text glitches in the loader menu.

 

 

[MysteryDump]

Would like to order one!

How can I purchase it?

[+-^CrossBow^-]

1 hour ago, RockLobster said:

I wish I could reproduce this.  I upgraded my BBPro firmware from 3.8.9 to your 3.9.0 and no change in behavior.   I forget, are you on a stock N.American SMS Model 1 also?  I wonder if it's not these games per se but rather a position or number of entries since your dir structure is different than mine.   I've tried selecting diff games, going up and back in the directory to mimic your earlier posted video.

 

It'd be great of @Apocalypse could send a Colecoco to @evietron so the great minds can have a small convo.

 

As it stands, @Digital Fluff's Chameleon cartridge is the only flashcart that seem to enumerate games w/o text glitches in the loader menu.

 

 

It is mostly stock but I've got quite a few mods done on it. I installed the old s-video upgrade on it years ago using the same kit you use for a Genesis. I've got one of the newer Consoles unleashed dual controller pause kits installed that I did a year ago. Also have a consoles unleashed SMS 2 RGB bypass that I retrofitted into my model 1. I also replaced the 7805 years ago with a Traco 1-2450 DC-DC switching regulator setup. And last, I've got an earlier FM expansion from Tim Worthington that I installed around the same time I did the s-video and have the region switch in place for JPN games to work properly.

 

It is the ONLY SMS console I have so I'm glad it seems to work as well as it does. I tested more homebrews using my AtariMax with only like 5 directories and limited the directories to only about 5 games in each to make it easier to see and select them.

 

Pretty much everything that runs on the BBPro will run on the Atarimax with the exact same results. The one difference is that I am able to get Sydney Hunter Sacred Tribe to work on the Atarimax while that one gives a black screen and locks up on the BBPro. Might be that one doesn't actually work on the BBPro to begin with and I just didn't remember that. But these other homebrews worked just fine that I have:

 

- Elevator Action

- Vangard

- Bejewled

- L'Abbye De Mort (Graphical glitches are present that make it difficult to play though)

- Sydney Hunter Caverns

- Sydney Hunter Sacred Tribe

- Suite Macabre (This actually is now suddenly working on the BBpro too?)

 

I've also found it really tough for me at least to get button '1' to register with my controllers and this adapter. So I end up pretty much choosing the option 2 games as a result. I took some direct capture just a bit ago and will edit it all together so you can see the results. One thing I will note is that after playing it for about an hour, it is actually harder for me to get the BBpro menu to come up properly using the game selection method I've been using. Wasn't having any luck with Nova Blast and ended up having Pitfall! be successful this time. So it isn't a 100% to get it to switch over right as I initially thought.

 

 

[RockLobster]

55 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

It is the ONLY SMS console I have so I'm glad it seems to work as well as it does. I tested more homebrews using my AtariMax with only like 5 directories and limited the directories to only about 5 games in each to make it easier to see and select them.

Yeah I tend to have 2nd / backup copies of consoles whenever I see them for a great price.  Sometimes recapping systems can only get you so far to resurrect a glitchy or broken system.   ...and of course weird behaviors with all the newly created accessories, it helps to have two for troubleshooting.   A second Vectrex system came in handy recently bc the copy of Vector Pilot I bought crashes regularly and doesn't save scores.  Good to see the problem on another unit to have a replacement sent.

 

re:rearranging directories to make it easier to use on the Colecoco, I'll probably pass on doing that since to test something I just need to fire it up on the real Coleco a couple of feet away and see how many titles down from the last visible entry to go.  

 

59 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

I've also found it really tough for me at least to get button '1' to register with my controllers and this adapter.

Is that bc of your SMS dpad being wonky or something else?

 

10 hours ago, Apocalypse said:

For the keypad, left thumb on the diagonal, right on button 1 and right pointy on the pause button.

Not ideal I agree but that's the best I could come up with.

Do you think it'll be workable on a future release to use the Atari 2600 Star Raiders keypad plugged into the second SMS controller port as an alternative CV keypad input device?

 

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

No I don't think it is because my controllers are to blame really. I use an arcade style controller I had built for me that can be used on 2600/SMS and 7800 modes with a button to switch. But even with an regular SMS controller plugged in I have a touch time hitting that diagonal right for selecting 1.

 

I also have spares of most of the consoles in my collection and in several cases...more than 1 spare LOL. But the SMS is one console I never really saw in the wild much so when I picked up the one I've got now with a handful of games and controllers with it for as little as I did about 12 years ago, I couldn't pass it up. But I've not really seen a similar good deal since. 

 

I'm not sure there is much else that can be done on the keypad simulation side of things. I don't know that 2600 touch pad would even work or register properly through the SMS? Again, I originally thought when seeing the box art that it would provide an on screen display of the keypad when pressing pause and then you would use the controller from there to see what you were selecting and then pressing enter would take you back to the game. But... that isn't how it works of course and I misunderstood that. I think it is difficult because I don't have a way to really visually know if I'm pressing in the right direction so it registers correctly or not.

 

I captured this earlier today and edited/compiled it together. It is a few homebrew games playing through the AtariMax SD through the Colecoco Master adapter. Many games I've tried play just fine although a few will have some audio issues in that they sound out of tune. The audio drop outs you hear in this video are due to a noise gate filter I used while capturing. I have severe floor noise coming in when using this adapter that is made worse when I have to boost the audio amplitude due to it also being fairly low in volume as compared to actual SMS games on the same console. 

 

It is about 14min long but there are timestamps with quick notes for the games that exhibit issues so it can been seen and you can look at just any you might be curious about.

 

 

 

 

 

[+Apocalypse]

3 hours ago, RockLobster said:

As it stands, @Digital Fluff's Chameleon cartridge is the only flashcart that seem to enumerate games w/o text glitches in the loader menu.

At this point we're almost positive it's due to those flashcarts using 3V parts, which is fine on a real Colecovision, but as said not with the adapter using CMOS parts (it's 2024, beggars can't be choosers, we're lucky enough there still are true 5V CPLDs being produced).

1 hour ago, RockLobster said:

Do you think it'll be workable on a future release to use the Atari 2600 Star Raiders keypad plugged into the second SMS controller port as an alternative CV keypad input device?

 

 

I haven't looked into it (protocol and pinout used) but that would restrict the adapter to be 1 player only (unless you activate it by a combination of buttons on the Sega screen).

[EDIT] Won't work without additional hardware sitting between the console and the keypad, it uses an analog input (paddle) available from the 2600 controller port to detect which buttons from columns 1 and 2 are pressed.

6 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Perhaps it is easier with an actual SMS controller but I think part of the issue is that again, my controllers are modified for the remote pause function and it just seems to be a bit fiddly with those. All of my controllers for use with my SMS have a similar modification or design for that remote pause built into them. Also with my arcade style controller I have that I like to use, the buttons are arcade sized and further apart so it requires two hands to use it and not possible to hold down that pause as a result.

 

So yeah, I would advise that a NES style controller be used for easier access to these functions.

 

 

Ideally testing with an unmodified machine and controller would be best to rule it out being caused by the mod.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

5 minutes ago, Apocalypse said:

Ideally testing with an unmodified machine and controller would be best to rule it out being caused by the mod.

I totally understand. I don't have another SMS console to test/verify as I only have the one and all of my SMS controllers as I stated, have been modified internally for use with the remote pause function added to the console. If you aren't familiar with that how works, it is pretty basic. You add another button to the controller that when pressed will send both Up and Down at the same time to the console. Diodes or resistors are added in the controller to prevent the separate up/down from triggering together unless the extra button is used. That impossible controller trigger is sent to an IC and through the truth table will register the two controls at once to trigger the signal to the pause button. But I don't believe it is a constant press and just a quick burst of the signal hence why using it on the controller doesn't register and I have to use the actual pause on the console. Also likely that since the console is able to see both directions being pressed at the same time, that the Colecoco Master adapter just doesn't know what to do with that combo and ignores it completely. 

 

Again, I don't place any blame here as I was curious if it would cause issues or still happen to work. So I was prepared either way in this regard.

 

[RockLobster]

42 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

But even with an regular SMS controller plugged in I have a touch time hitting that diagonal right for selecting 1.

So I've not had any problems at all.  Here's how I've been pressing the ColecoVision numpad 1 with the SMS dpad + pause.    How are you holding/pressing with your SMS OEM controller?

 

 

 

23 minutes ago, Apocalypse said:

At this point we're almost positive it's due to those flashcarts using 3V parts, which is fine on a real Colecovision, but as said not with the adapter using CMOS parts

Is there risk of damage to the Atarimax Ultimate SD, Backbit Pro, Colecoco or the Master System itself by continuing to use them?

 

 

25 minutes ago, Apocalypse said:

I haven't looked into it (protocol and pinout used) but that would restrict the adapter to be 1 player only (unless you activate it by a combination of buttons on the Sega screen).

That's right.  it'll be a trade off.  Maybe a mode you can enable so players can choose to use the keypad as player one or choose to keep your current control method?

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Most of the time when I'm trying to select 1 it seems to register as if I pressed 2. Again, I'm sure it is just me and my OEM controllers have never been that great to begin with. That is why I don't typically use them and use my controller from @doubledown.

 

 

[+Apocalypse]

12 minutes ago, RockLobster said:

Is there risk of damage to the Atarimax Ultimate SD, Backbit Pro, Colecoco or the Master System itself by continuing to use them?

It won't damage the Colecoco, but I wonder if it could corrupt the flashcarts.

 

Regarding the 2600 keypad, I've edited my answer above, it won't work unfortunately.

 

[RockLobster]

25 minutes ago, Apocalypse said:

Regarding the 2600 keypad, I've edited my answer above, it won't work unfortunately.

Oh wow, I had no idea the keypad used analog interfaces.

[+Apocalypse]

7 minutes ago, RockLobster said:

Oh wow, I had no idea the keypad used analog interfaces.

It is very basic, using voltage dividers. Actually clever when you think about it and the limitation of the hardware.

[MegaManFan]

On 10/25/2022 at 5:49 PM, Apocalypse said:

Available now!

 

Hi everyone,

 

Colecoco Masters are finally available.

 

You can order them from Mitsurugi-w from Arcade Projects, no need to register, you can order by sending an e-mail to 'his username with _ instead of -' at hotmail dot com, , with COLECOCO MASTER (in capital letters) as the subject.

APOCALYPSE - Coming Soon: ColeCoco Master Adapter!! | Arcade-Projects Forums

 

Price is $69 + shipping and for now they're sent from the US, people outside of America may want to do a group buy to save on shipping and tax.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Hello.

 

I have designed an adapter to play ColecoVision games on the Master System (through the SG-1000 compatibility mode, hence slightly off colours):

 

To access the keypad maintain the PAUSE button on the console then the corresponding direction/button combination. Layout below:

 

 

------------

 

06/04/2024

 

Hi everyone,

 

We are building the stock for the initial release, please show your interest here so we have enough for everyone.

 

Price will be $69 for the collector edition:

- ColeCoco Master adapter with 1:1 reproduction case (down to the screws) and professionally printed stickers (front and back)

- Clam shell with SMS style artwork

- Shrink wrapped (for sealed collection 😈)

 

We'll offer other editions in the future (bare adapters or even bare PCBs).

 

More pics and information there:

APOCALYPSE - Coming Soon: ColeCoco Master Adapter!! | Arcade-Projects Forums

 

Thanks guys.

 

------------

 

Interest list

 

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Please put me down as interested too.

[+Apocalypse]

@MegaManFan sure, done!

[rednakes1]

Sorry, I’m confused. I’m one of the ones with the glitchy/defective adapters and it was quite expensive to ship to Canada.  What are the next steps?  (I have #005)

Edited Monday at 04:30 AM by rednakes1

[+Apocalypse]

 @rednakes1 & @DNA128k please see videos below of the impact of brightness and contrast on one of my TVs. As you can see with the default settings (brightness & contrast in the middle) some elements aren't visible in Mouse Trap.

 

 

 

[RockLobster]

31 minutes ago, Apocalypse said:

As you can see with the default settings (brightness & contrast in the middle) some elements aren't visible in Mouse Trap.

 

My default brightness on my consumer TV for Mouse Trap on the Colecoco:

 

Here's Mouse Trap on my real Colecovision:

 

Just like someone else who complained about not being able to see the Cosmic Avengers bombs, I think it's bc the regular CV's "red" is a lighter shade of red whereas the SG-1000 / Colecoco's red is super dark red.

Edited Monday at 05:20 AM by RockLobster

[+Apocalypse]

@RockLobster yes it's TV dependent. On my other TV with the default settings it's even brighter than in your video.

Also video signals are weaker on the second generation of Master System VDPs (can be found both in 1st and 2nd models).

[N0mi]

12 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Again, I originally thought when seeing the box art that it would provide an on screen display of the keypad when pressing pause and then you would use the controller from there to see what you were selecting and then pressing enter would take you back to the game. But... that isn't how it works of course and I misunderstood that. I think it is difficult because I don't have a way to really visually know if I'm pressing in the right direction so it registers correctly or not.

I was under the same impression and have yet to test this as soon as I get mine.

Didn't know there's no visual feedback, though.

[RockLobster]

4 hours ago, N0mi said:

I was under the same impression and have yet to test this as soon as I get mine.

Didn't know there's no visual feedback, though.

 

I was actually surprised some people thought this.  The original post literally demonstrated how things work in the first post by pressing northwest + pause to start the game.

 

[N0mi]

50 minutes ago, RockLobster said:

 

I was actually surprised some people thought this.  The original post literally demonstrated how things work in the first post by pressing northwest + pause to start the game.

That's right! Nevertheless, upon seeing the illustration I imagined I would see something similar onscreen.

[rednakes1]

11 hours ago, Apocalypse said:

 @rednakes1 & @DNA128k please see videos below of the impact of brightness and contrast on one of my TVs. As you can see with the default settings (brightness & contrast in the middle) some elements aren't visible in Mouse Trap.

 

 

 

 

I did play with the settings slightly for brightness and contrast originally when I saw the issues, and didn’t see a difference. But I’ll try again with more extreme values and report back later.  Thanks