Crypto Crash and Atari

[GraffitiTavern]

Well crypto is going under big time and I feel like I should point out how much of a bad idea it was to get into it in the first player. Gamers have always been skeptical, so I don't know why Atari went after it so hard, besides shortsighted greed and FOMO. I didn't grow up with Atari(Gen Z), but I  really like gaming history, so direct continuity mattered less to me than actually taking the history and making good games seriously. There were some positive steps in that regard under Rosen, but him staying in crypto was a fatal error, although idk how much shareholders had a say in that. Do you think this threatens Atari going forward? Crypto was a major revenue stream for them, or did the 50th Anniversary sales give them enough of a shot in the arm to weather the crypto crash?

[Astro Rabby]

The current state of Atari is sorry to say the least. Collections are all they've had going since the death of the Jaguar, so NFTs seemed like a nice grift. Also investors hear of tons of money for zero effort and refuse to concede, no matter how much consumers and some employees keep trying to tell them no one cares about NFTs.

[+x=usr(1536)]

10 hours ago, GraffitiTavern said:

Well crypto is going under big time and I feel like I should point out how much of a bad idea it was to get into it in the first player.

At the time, it was only their latest in a long line of fuckups.  More:

10 hours ago, GraffitiTavern said:

Gamers have always been skeptical, so I don't know why Atari went after it so hard, besides shortsighted greed and FOMO.

While those certainly were factors, the real problem was incompetent management - Fred Chesnais in particular.  He didn't see the company as a company, but rather as a brand to be exploited.  Licence that name and logo to be slapped on anything he might be able to collect fees on; doesn't matter if it's boxer shorts or hotels because any revenue stream is a good revenue stream.  Oh, and what's the dilly-o with that crazy NFT thing I hear the kids think is the bomb-diggity?  We need some of that, too.  Also, we need to be making hardware again, because there's no way that could turn into a total shitshow.

 

Ultimately, Chesnais knew that he was saddled with a company with a name that had little relevance in this century, the only way out for him that could appear to even slightly save face was to accept a buyout offer, and nobody wanted to take it off of his hands because it had nothing to offer.  By expanding the corporate portfolio, so to speak, there was the possibility of inflating the company's value enough to make it appear to have some life left in it, but it didn't work out that way.

10 hours ago, GraffitiTavern said:

I didn't grow up with Atari(Gen Z), but I  really like gaming history, so direct continuity mattered less to me than actually taking the history and making good games seriously. There were some positive steps in that regard under Rosen, but him staying in crypto was a fatal error, although idk how much shareholders had a say in that. Do you think this threatens Atari going forward? Crypto was a major revenue stream for them, or did the 50th Anniversary sales give them enough of a shot in the arm to weather the crypto crash?

I will, in fairness to Rosen, permit that he inherited a steaming pile of bad decisions made by his predecessor.  While he should have been aware of what he was stepping into by accepting the CEO role, I can equally easily believe that the prior management was not entirely forthcoming with their disclosures.  Obviously I have no direct proof of that, but it's something that I certainly wouldn't put past them.

 

As for any of this threatening Atari SA in the long term: it's already a dead duck.  Rosen may be trying to salvage what he can of the company, but we've yet to see solid results from those efforts.  It basically has nothing to offer the market that people are interested in, and is operating in a very crowded market segment.  At this point, I'm just waiting for their next bankruptcy sale to see what I can buy the rights to for $20 or less.

2 hours ago, Astro Rabby said:

The current state of Atari is sorry to say the least. Collections are all they've had going since the death of the Jaguar, so NFTs seemed like a nice grift. Also investors hear of tons of money for zero effort and refuse to concede, no matter how much consumers and some employees keep trying to tell them no one cares about NFTs.

The real Atari is here at AtariAge.

[stirrell]

10 hours ago, Astro Rabby said:

Collections are all they've had going since the death of the Jaguar

Personally I have really liked the Recharged series. Kombinera was a well done game for those who like puzzlers and Atari Mania is decent.

 

I know opinions on it are very negative for many but I personally really like the new VCS. Games that utilize the Classic controller make for a unique play experience and the hardware seems well-built to me.

 

So I like the direction of Atari under Rosen for the most part. I have no idea of the market for the types of games they are making and other products they are offering is big enough to sustain the company. But I hope so.

 

I also appreciate that employees on the Atari Discords are approachable and I like the community around the VCS.

 

There have obviously been many missteps (manual errors and backwards PCBs?!) but I don’t get the negativity. I get that it has been a LOT of years of disappointment being an Atari fan but the last couple of years have been an improvement in my mind.

[+x=usr(1536)]

54 minutes ago, stirrell said:

There have obviously been many missteps (manual errors and backwards PCBs?!) but I don’t get the negativity.

While it wouldn't be reasonable to expect you to read through the entire 1174-page thread here detailing everything that Atari SA did before, during, and after the development of the VCS, it's all contained in there.  Some highlights, courtesy of The Register and presented in chronological order:

• The Atari retro games box is real… sort of
• The Ataribox lives, as a prototype, supposedly
• We sent a vulture to find the relaunched Atari box – and all he got was this lousy baseball cap
• Exclusive to all press: Atari launches world's best ever games console
• Atari accuses El Reg of professional trolling and making stuff up. Welp, here's the interview tape for you to decide...
• So about that Atari reboot console... you might want to sit down. It's going to be late, OK?
• Atari finally launches its VCS console. Again.
• Time to check in again on the Atari retro console… dear God, it’s actually got worse
• Game over: Atari VCS architect quits project, claims he hasn’t been paid for six months
• Atari would love to ship its VCS console but – would ya believe it – there's yet another delay. This time, it's the coronavirus's fault
• Still waiting for your Atari retro gaming console? You're not alone: Its architect has just sued the biz for 'non-payment'

Bear in mind that this is just one outlet's experience with the device and company.  It doesn't get into the gameplay screenshots that Atari SA faked, the joke that was their Indiegogo campaign, the company's total lack of direction and/or competence in management, interminable delays, lying to the public, or any one of a billion other things that they did.  Hell, even the release of this thing was moderately surprising given how frequently they had screwed up on the way there.

 

There's also the comedy of their stock ultimately being delisted from NASDAQ for being a penny stock with no hope of recovery, the cryptocurrency debacle, the WTF moment of their move into hospitality by way of Atari-branded hotels, and many, many other moments of incompetence that would be laughable if it weren't for the fact that these were the results of actual decisions made by people one would expect to know better.  For more info, I'll refer you back to the 1174-page thread, in which all of this (and considerably more) was chronicled and commented upon as it happened.

 

In any event, there's been plenty of discussion about it over the past five years or so.  Their cryptocurrency adventures are the current topic of derision

 

[MrMaddog]

This is exactly what I was afraid of, that the current Atari would be so dependent on crytpocurrency that once the Crypto-Crash happens (and it did) then it'll take this verison of Atari out.

 

I hope that Atari Interactive under Rosen, that does the Recharge series, would still be around even as just a digital game developer or better yet publisher.

 

Otherwise it'll be yet another Crash that took out Atari (on it's 50th annerversary) and begins yet again the endless cycle of someone buying the remains to exploit the nostaglic brand name and making yet another headline saying "Atari Is Back"...

Edited November 12, 2022 by MrMaddog

[stirrell]

1 hour ago, x=usr(1536) said:

While it wouldn't be reasonable to expect you to read through the entire 1174-page thread here detailing everything that Atari SA did before, during, and after the development of the VCS, it's all contained in there.

I am aware of those things but most of that was before Rosen took over, wasn’t it? Again I am not saying they are perfect but I have more hopes for them under Rosen than I did under their previous leadership.

[+GoldLeader]

1 hour ago, x=usr(1536) said:

While it wouldn't be reasonable to expect you to read through the entire 1174-page thread here detailing everything that Atari SA did before, during, and after the development of the VCS, it's all contained in there.  Some highlights, courtesy of The Register and presented in chronological order:

• The Atari retro games box is real… sort of
• The Ataribox lives, as a prototype, supposedly
• We sent a vulture to find the relaunched Atari box – and all he got was this lousy baseball cap
• Exclusive to all press: Atari launches world's best ever games console
• Atari accuses El Reg of professional trolling and making stuff up. Welp, here's the interview tape for you to decide...
• So about that Atari reboot console... you might want to sit down. It's going to be late, OK?
• Atari finally launches its VCS console. Again.
• Time to check in again on the Atari retro console… dear God, it’s actually got worse
• Game over: Atari VCS architect quits project, claims he hasn’t been paid for six months
• Atari would love to ship its VCS console but – would ya believe it – there's yet another delay. This time, it's the coronavirus's fault
• Still waiting for your Atari retro gaming console? You're not alone: Its architect has just sued the biz for 'non-payment'

Bear in mind that this is just one outlet's experience with the device and company.  It doesn't get into the gameplay screenshots that Atari SA faked, the joke that was their Indiegogo campaign, the company's total lack of direction and/or competence in management, interminable delays, lying to the public, or any one of a billion other things that they did.  Hell, even the release of this thing was moderately surprising given how frequently they had screwed up on the way there.

 

There's also the comedy of their stock ultimately being delisted from NASDAQ for being a penny stock with no hope of recovery, the cryptocurrency debacle, the WTF moment of their move into hospitality by way of Atari-branded hotels, and many, many other moments of incompetence that would be laughable if it weren't for the fact that these were the results of actual decisions made by people one would expect to know better.  For more info, I'll refer you back to the 1174-page thread, in which all of this (and considerably more) was chronicled and commented upon as it happened.

 

In any event, there's been plenty of discussion about it over the past five years or so.  Their cryptocurrency adventures are the current topic of derision

 

 

And,...unfortunately,  there's more...(But for the most part,  I bite my tongue).  Keeping in mind this version of Atari is trying,  but they ignore the past rather than ever address it so...(and No, don't PM me "atari",  I'm saying nothing,  actions speak louder than words)

 

** E D I T **

 

You know,   the more I think about it...

 

The more convinced I am that what I previously wrote would bring me nothing but trouble, no matter how true it is...so

 

****REDACTED****

 

 

 

Don't worry,  I don't expect anyone to really read that whole thread...But it would explain the "negativity".  Is wanting the company to do better and treat the name with a little respect such a bad thing?

 

Actually I'm bowing out...Why even try?  Show people something and they laugh it off and say but, but, but...

 

Look,  I've always wanted them to succeed, but not at shady grifts, poor planning, ripping people off, and treating the name like a cash cow to be milked dry etc.,...I actually hope some version of Atari will once again succeed.

Edited November 12, 2022 by GoldLeader
Edited because I have a big mouth. You never know who might read this and take (legal action) errr offense...I guess

[+GoldLeader]

49 minutes ago, stirrell said:

I am aware of those things but most of that was before Rosen took over, wasn’t it? Again I am not saying they are perfect but I have more hopes for them under Rosen than I did under their previous leadership.

Fair point...

 

Yet,

 

(A quote,  Not my words)

 

Frédéric Chesnais is a businessperson who has been the head of 15 different companies. Currently, he is Chairman at California US Holdings, Inc., Chairman of Atari Game Partners Corp., Chairman of Atari Entertainment Africa Ltd., Chairman & Chief Executive Officer at Crypto Blockchain Industries SA, Chairman of Midway Games West, Inc. and Managing Director at Ker Ventures LLC. Frédéric Chesnais is also on the board of Infinity Network LLC and French-American Foundation and General Manager at Free Reign East LLC and General Manager at OP Productions LLC.

In the past he was Chief Executive Officer for Atari Chairman at Atari, Inc. and Chief Executive Officer at Atari Interactive, Inc. (both are subsidiaries of Atari), Chairman of Atari Capital Partners Corp, Chairman at Aitd Productions LLC, Chairman of Cubed Productions LLC, Chairman at Rcto Productions LLC, Chairman of Asteroids Productions, Chairman for Atari Casino LLC and General Manager of Magnet Productions.

 

(Get it?  He's still with the company...Not exactly punished either)

[+x=usr(1536)]

52 minutes ago, stirrell said:

I am aware of those things but most of that was before Rosen took over, wasn’t it? Again I am not saying they are perfect but I have more hopes for them under Rosen than I did under their previous leadership.

Most of that was pre-Rosen, yes.  And while I've been hopeful that Rosen can turn the ship around, we've yet to see any tangible proof of that.  As an example:

 

 

That's Atari SA's one-year stock performance.  While I will thoroughly admit that I think it's a junk stock, even a junk stock can show improvement if the market confidence in the company is there.  Nothing in that graph suggests that that type of confidence exists, and Rosen's been in the CEO seat for over two years.

 

Equally worrying is that they just extended the Rollercoaster Tycoon licence for another 10 years.  This isn't a title that has huge market penetration, and, given that they're licensing it from its creator, there's always the risk that he could yank the licence out from under Atari SA.  This is their major title right now, so losing it would effectively cut the company's throat.

 

All of this suggests two things: one, that it's still business as usual at Atari SA because this is a direct carryover from the Chesnais era; two, they have no product in the pipeline - or, if they do, they can't get it to market.  Sure, they just released the 50th anniversary compilations, but that's another money for old rope move.  The target audience for this sort of thing (us) is already dying off, and that Fuji can't be capitalised on forever.

34 minutes ago, GoldLeader said:

Look,  I've always wanted them to succeed, but not at shady grifts, poor planning, ripping people off, and treating the name like a cash cow to be milked dry etc.,...I actually hope some version of Atari will once again succeed.

Same.  Unfortunately, the further they go from the Infogrames acquisition, the less there is for them to be proud of.

[+GoldLeader]

3 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Most of that was pre-Rosen, yes.  ...

 

 

  Unfortunately, the further they go from the Infogrames acquisition, the less there is for them to be proud of.

Exactly right.

[stirrell]

I definitely respect the points of view. I just feel like the Recharged series and Kombinera have been really solid. They say there is another round of Recharged titles coming so I am excited about that.

 

And I am encouraged by them investing in things that seem focused on honoring the past like Antstream and Moby Games. I believe other people on AtariAge who have contact with them also have said the new management seem to actually care about the brand and its legacy.

 

Time will tell obviously. And I wouldn’t bet any money on an Atari resurgence. I will not be buying stock. But I do feel like they have done a lot of good things since Rosen took over compared to his predecessor.

[Astro Rabby]

11 hours ago, stirrell said:

Personally I have really liked the Recharged series. Kombinera was a well done game for those who like puzzlers and Atari Mania is decent.

 

I forgot about Recharged. I never bought them because they seemed too expensive lol

[Nall3k]

Last I read, Rosen is offering to buy out the remaining stock and take the company private. They also have 18 more games in development, some more Recharged I take it, and some new IPs.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Nall3k

[sirlynxalot]

Didn't they publish a bunch of other people's games during the early 2000s?  I swear I have a copy of Enter the Matrix for gamecube with a big fat Atari logo on the box. That always surprised me at the time, like I knew the Tramiel version of Atari went under 6 or so years earlier, so it seemed kinda weird to see the logo used by a company that simply acquired it in an asset purchase, and which had no particular continuity with the old versions of the company (e.g., by having some of the same managers or employees).

[Ecernosoft]

On 11/11/2022 at 2:31 PM, GraffitiTavern said:

Well crypto is going under big time and I feel like I should point out how much of a bad idea it was to get into it in the first player. Gamers have always been skeptical, so I don't know why Atari went after it so hard, besides shortsighted greed and FOMO. I didn't grow up with Atari(Gen Z), but I  really like gaming history, so direct continuity mattered less to me than actually taking the history and making good games seriously. There were some positive steps in that regard under Rosen, but him staying in crypto was a fatal error, although idk how much shareholders had a say in that. Do you think this threatens Atari going forward? Crypto was a major revenue stream for them, or did the 50th Anniversary sales give them enough of a shot in the arm to weather the crypto crash?

NO. WHY. Atari, stop it with this. No one likes it.

[MrMaddog]

9 minutes ago, sirlynxalot said:

Didn't they publish a bunch of other people's games during the early 2000s?  I swear I have a copy of Enter the Matrix for gamecube with a big fat Atari logo on the box. That always surprised me at the time, like I knew the Tramiel version of Atari went under 6 or so years earlier, so it seemed kinda weird to see the logo used by a company that simply acquired it in an asset purchase, and which had no particular continuity with the old versions of the company (e.g., by having some of the same managers or employees).

 

That was when Infogrames owned the Atari name and used it for publishing their own titles, they had previously bought it from Hasbro Interactive who in turned bought it from JTS which reversed merged with Tramiel's Atari.

 

We need a flowchart to see who owned Atari when...and another flowchat for all the subdiviisons of the current Atari SA.

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

20 hours ago, stirrell said:

I just feel like the Recharged series and Kombinera have been really solid.

In fairness to Atari SA, those have been decent titles. However, there are concerns that I have with those two specifically:

 

Kombinera is a neat puzzler, but it feels like a mobile game.  Not that there's anything wrong with mobile games, but on a platform like Steam that's geared more towards desktop gaming, there's a perception that desktop games should have more depth and complexity than mobile games.  By no means am I saying this to knock the game, but that perception makes its $14.99 price tag look steep.

 

The Recharged series: while it's interesting to see Atari SA's modern takes on some of the past titles in their library, I do not believe that these are titles that can maintain a long-term revenue stream of any significance.  Everyone who wants a copy will get one at launch, at which point interest will dwindle to a trickle.  This isn't a reflection on the titles themselves, but rather just how anything with a retro theme tends to sell.  There're only so many times you can retread a tyre, and relying on refreshes of historic IP is much the same.

1 hour ago, Nall3k said:

Last I read, Rosen is offering to buy out the remaining stock and take the company private.

This is probably the best thing he could do.  There are a number of reasons for this, but the big one is that it'll remove the embarrassment of their stock price from the public eye.  It doesn't necessarily mean that there will be a short- or mid-term improvement in the company's value, but it will at least reduce certain types of scrutiny, which in turn buys breathing room to figure out next moves.

1 hour ago, Nall3k said:

They also have 18 more games in development, some more Recharged I take it, and some new IPs.

If they can develop the new IPs with a long-term view in mind (something Atari SA has historically been poor at), the company may have a future.  As it stands, it seems to just be waiting for its next sale and buyer.

[Ecernosoft]

46 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said:

In fairness to Atari SA, those have been decent titles. However, there are concerns that I have with those two specifically:

 

Kombinera is a neat puzzler, but it feels like a mobile game.  Not that there's anything wrong with mobile games, but on a platform like Steam that's geared more towards desktop gaming, there's a perception that desktop games should have more depth and complexity than mobile games.  By no means am I saying this to knock the game, but that perception makes its $14.99 price tag look steep.

 

The Recharged series: while it's interesting to see Atari SA's modern takes on some of the past titles in their library, I do not believe that these are titles that can maintain a long-term revenue stream of any significance.  Everyone who wants a copy will get one at launch, at which point interest will dwindle to a trickle.  This isn't a reflection on the titles themselves, but rather just how anything with a retro theme tends to sell.  There're only so many times you can retread a tyre, and relying on refreshes of historic IP is much the same.

This is probably the best thing he could do.  There are a number of reasons for this, but the big one is that it'll remove the embarrassment of their stock price from the public eye.  It doesn't necessarily mean that there will be a short- or mid-term improvement in the company's value, but it will at least reduce certain types of scrutiny, which in turn buys breathing room to figure out next moves.

If they can develop the new IPs with a long-term view in mind (something Atari SA has historically been poor at), the company may have a future.  As it stands, it seems to just be waiting for its next sale and buyer.

1. The “low” price tag is there because…. Atari is probably looking at this from a modern perspective in that we are the minority enjoying these games.

2. Yes. I’d love to see Atari make good IP’s, but I’ll pass if it means “give me money” games come out of it. 

[roadrunner]

[+x=usr(1536)]

@roadrunner: I'll admit to being completely unfamiliar with any of the Transformers games, but it looks as though that was a massively-squandered opportunity on post-Infogrames Atari's part per this Wikipedia article:

 

"Hasbro sold the digital gaming rights various properties, including My Little Pony, Magic: The Gathering, Tonka, Playskool, and The Transformers, to Infogrames for $100 million USD in 2000, and then it bought back the rights for $65 million USD in June 2005."

 

If a company loses $35M on the sale of the rights to those franchises back to the company that originally sold them, something is seriously wrong.  Regardless of how well the titles may or may not have sold, effectively losing $7M per year for five years straight on them just boggles the mind given how popular they are.

 

It's not like Atari never made a bad decision in its prior history: it did, and made plenty of them.  But this one could have been a perpetual cash cow for them and they just straight-up faceplanted on it.

[Mockduck]

Do I like Crypto? No, I think it's stupid. Same with NFTs. That said, I think the actual financials paint a different picture than the gloom and doom and general crypto-hate by people who are following the trend more than the results. Atari jumped in fairly easily and managed to make not that far off in one year as they did for their entire games division. From their most recent FY2022 report:

Atari FY22 revenues stood at €14.9M compared to €18.9M in the previous year (21.2% decrease at current exchange rates and 21.5% at constant exchange rates):

 

● Games (38% of revenues): the 30% decrease in Games revenues is the result of a renewed focus on profitability and related marketing expenses in Atari’s free-to-play game catalog, and a strategic pivot to premium game development. New games launched by Atari during the second half of the year contributed positively to revenue.

● Licensing (8% of revenues): Licensing revenues are down 84% year-on-year. The drop is driven by a new strategic partnership selection process, which seeks to better align partners with the overall Atari strategy and prevent future impairments on previously booked licensing revenue. Additionally, successful multi-year licenses that had their revenue booked in previous fiscal years continue to provide significant cash flow going forward.

● Hardware (21% of revenues): Hardware revenues are up by 9.8% at €3.1M for the year, as a result of a full year of revenue contribution from the VCS.

● Blockchain (33% of revenues): Sharp increase in Blockchain revenues to €4.9M, reflecting the contribution from NFT sales under licensing agreements with partners such as Zed Run and Everyrealm, and from the sale of parcels of land in The Sandbox.

 

Games revenue of 5.7mil Euro vs 4.9mil Euro for Blockchain. Seems like something that paid off.

 

So, do I want NFTs on the VCS? Heck no. But I think the general pile-on of Crypto being the 2022 boogyman doesn't really provide a look at the reality, the reality is Atari wants money and found a way to get it easily, so that's why they are doing it. If I could creep toward equal the revenue of my main product within a year by letting someone else make and sell jpgs and social space games and just accept the checks, I'd do it. 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Mockduck

[zzip]

On 11/13/2022 at 2:15 PM, sirlynxalot said:

Didn't they publish a bunch of other people's games during the early 2000s?  I swear I have a copy of Enter the Matrix for gamecube with a big fat Atari logo on the box. That always surprised me at the time, like I knew the Tramiel version of Atari went under 6 or so years earlier, so it seemed kinda weird to see the logo used by a company that simply acquired it in an asset purchase, and which had no particular continuity with the old versions of the company (e.g., by having some of the same managers or employees).

I have a Sam & Max game on the Wii that was published by Atari even though it's a Tell-Tale game that were usually self-published I think?

[Nall3k]

I don't really see Atari SA of being in danger of going bankrupt, considering they are an operation of 20 or less people with little debt. I think they need to get out of crypto and focus solely on licensing and premium game releases. My 2 cents.

[Lord Mushroom]

On 11/12/2022 at 6:07 PM, x=usr(1536) said:

Equally worrying is that they just extended the Rollercoaster Tycoon licence for another 10 years.  This isn't a title that has huge market penetration, and, given that they're licensing it from its creator, there's always the risk that he could yank the licence out from under Atari SA.  This is their major title right now, so losing it would effectively cut the company's throat.

He can´t yank the license from them. At least not without good reason.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Lord Mushroom