Intellivision RTO-MultiCart - new multicart

[aotta]

hi,

resistor are standard through hole, and decoupling capacitor too, so you could fit almost any type if the size is not the exact one. 

Anyway, I can upload the BOM generated by Kicad automatically, it's not checked by me so ask if you have any doubt.

For the PCB, i always use JLCPCB, and time deliver depends on wich courier do you choose (more you pay, faster the service).

I use jlcpcb for 3d printing large stuff too (my 3d printer has 12 cm as max printing size), but if you are looking for someone in USA, i can't help you.

 

 

RTO_cart.csv

[goldendark007]

Thank you for

1 hour ago, aotta said:

hi,

resistor are standard through hole, and decoupling capacitor too, so you could fit almost any type if the size is not the exact one. 

Anyway, I can upload the BOM generated by Kicad automatically, it's not checked by me so ask if you have any doubt.

For the PCB, i always use JLCPCB, and time deliver depends on wich courier do you choose (more you pay, faster the service).

I use jlcpcb for 3d printing large stuff too (my 3d printer has 12 cm as max printing size), but if you are looking for someone in USA, i can't help you.

 

 

RTO_cart.csv 3.47 kB · 0 downloads

Thank you for that! I was actually looking to print the shell through JLCPCB, do you think I should do the PCB from them as well? For the shells, when selecting the materials etc., do you just select SLA(resin) and Black Resin? For the PCB, do you leave the Base Material settings, or change anything like the PCB thickness, copper weigh, or Via Coverings? Sorry for all the questions, but I am pretty excited to get started on this and I am used to printing materials that can range in size and thickness and still be usable for my projects. I will also let people know if it is a success and if I have any extra materials for making more.

 

Thanks again!

[aotta]

Yes the default value are just fine, sometime i choose different color for the PCB, but it takes some more days in fabricating.

I printed the shells with my Entina 3D (i designed the pcb and shell to be into my 12cm limit!  ), but black resin should be good, i used it for other computer's part!

[goldendark007]

43 minutes ago, aotta said:

Yes the default value are just fine, sometime i choose different color for the PCB, but it takes some more days in fabricating.

I printed the shells with my Entina 3D (i designed the pcb and shell to be into my 12cm limit!  ), but black resin should be good, i used it for other computer's part!

All sounds good. My last question is related to the drill holes. When I load the gerber files on JLCPCB, it shows those holes as filled. Is this going to pose an issue? Is there a way for me to make it show those holes in the preview? I tried it by making zip files only using the PTH.drl files and the NPTH.dril files.

 

Thanks again for all the help!

[aotta]

if you uploaded the gerber1.1a.rar you found in my repo, you can be easy, they worked for me. Sometime the jlcpcb preview are not accurate.

[goldendark007]

23 minutes ago, aotta said:

if you uploaded the gerber1.1a.rar you found in my repo, you can be easy, they worked for me. Sometime the jlcpcb preview are not accurate.

That's what I did. Then I tried uploaded with only one set of those files each. I suppose, worst case, I could drill the holes myself if they aren't populated.

 

Thanks again for all the help. Will report back with my progress.

 

edit: Do I want the vias tented or untented? Thanks!

Edited July 23, 2023 by goldendark007

[goldendark007]

Ok, followup questions: I am programming the Teensy 4.1 with Arduino IDE. I added the Teensy Installer, but when I go to upload, I get the error message:

 

C:\Users\\RTO-Cart-main\RTOCart1.1\RTOCart1.1.ino:20:10: fatal error: Adafruit_SSD1306.h: No such file or directory

 

I assume I need to download this file and add it to the directory. Do I need to obtain other files to add to the directory? Sorry If this is a dumb question.

 

Thanks

 

[aotta]

Yes you have a couple of library installed, the adafruit is for the display management. You just may add it from library manager menu of arduino ide

[goldendark007]

I installed the libraries and after loading everything I received this message:

 

Opening Teensy Loader...
Memory Usage on Teensy 4.1:
  FLASH: code:55216, data:12204, headers:8352   free for files:8050692
   RAM1: variables:14432, code:52184, padding:13352   free for local variables:444320
   RAM2: variables:476800  free for malloc/new:47488

 

Sorry for so many questions, but can you confirm if this is correct?

[aotta]

Well i don't remind the numbers i got in flashing mine, but it sounds that you did it fine, without errors 

[goldendark007]

Alright, I am in build mode - I have a couple more questions for you. I am using 6mm x 6mm x 12mm buttons - do you suggest I use a different length or is this alright? I also see that you didn't populate R6 in the photos on the Github, should I not be doing that or is it okay if I do? For the Teensy 4.1, do I need to connect the USB Host/Ethernet or the other holes near the MicroSD on the board? Or do I just connect the outer holes to the vias?

 

Thanks so much! Will report my results when finished.

 

edit: do I need to name the SD card anything specific when I format it? Thanks

Edited August 4, 2023 by goldendark007

[aotta]

Hi, the buttons seems ok, and the R6 isn't needed (i used it to test the reset line).

And for the Teensy, you have to solder only the "parallel" strips, nothing else.

SD card label is no relevant, only the bin and cfg files, and the directory structure (max 1 level depth).

[Tissemon]

A little update regarding the glitches I experienced in some games. I got to borrow some extra PCBs from a friend to test in my Intellivision. They are all PAL versions. Both PCBs with the daughter board have glitches in Antarctic Adventure, Dracula and Micro Surgeon from RTO (original version of Micro Surgeon works on them both). The one in the top right works without any glitches in all games I’ve tried, both original and from RTO.

[aotta]

it seems to confirm that the daughter board interferes in some way with the R/W of the game's ROM, but i don't know what that board is for, and i didn't found it in the Intellivision schematics. Can it be detached from the mainboard, to get some pics and more details?

[Tissemon]

The daughter board replaces the Color AY-3-8915 chip on U10 but also contains a capacitor and both xtals. It’s soldered down so it’s pretty hard to see.

[aotta]

I see two electrolytic caps under the board, if I'll have to guess, they are the most suspected

[Tissemon]

57 minutes ago, aotta said:

I see two electrolytic caps under the board, if I'll have to guess, they are the most suspected

I’ve already tried replacing all caps on both the logicboard and on the power board. And tried replacing both xtals. And both power regulators on the psu. Didn’t help.

[Tissemon]

I did some more testing today. It's really weird: Both the PCB:s with daughter board have glitches in some games but the glitches are not the same - On one of them I can play Dracula, Antarctic Adventure and Micro Surgeon from the RTO, but they all display glitches/crash after a while. On the other PCB Atarctic Adventure and Dracula crashes right after displaying the intro-screen. But Micro Surgeon seems to be running fine on that PCB (It's hard to see if it has any graphic glitches or not, but at least it doesn't crash, like it does on my other PCB).

The mother board that runs with minor glitches is the one I've fully recapped. I might recap the other one as well, just to see if that changes anything.

But yes, I think it's fair to say that the RTO, with it's current FW, is incompatible with this PCB-revision.

[aotta]

Mmhh... Very not scientific as test, since you got different behaviours even between the two daughtered  mother boards.

But, this confirm that a couple of games have issue with this revision of motherboard.

The more strange thing to me it's Dracula has glitches: the original cart works fine in both daughter pcb consoles?

[Tissemon]

I havn't got the original version of Dracula so unfortunately I can't test it. I think it will work though. The recapped daughter PCB is the one I've done most testing on, and on that one Micro Surgeon crashes from RTO with default settings and Dracula gets glitches in sprites and some times crashes as well from RTO with default settings. Original Micro Surgeon works fine. And if I change the settings in RTO firmware to: delRD=422 + delWR=480 both Micro Surgeon and Dracula works fine on the daughter PCB.

So why don't I just change and leave at those values? I could, but then I tested Antarctic Adventure and I've tried A LOT of different timing values, but I can't find a combination of values to make that game run without glitches on the daughterboard PCB. So now I've got myself a regular PCB instead and on that one, all games works without flaw with the default timing settings in the RTO firmware.

I could run a lot of more tests, but I don't really have time to reflash the RTO and try a lot of stuff out with my new PCBs so I think I'll leave it as it is now.

 

But I am a bit curious on how those timing-values in the RTO works and why they have to be different for different PCBs when all original carts seem to work fine on all units (NTSC, PAL, Secam, Daughter board, etc.). Could there be a way to auto-detect these values based on the PCB you put the cart into?

[aotta]

Well, RTO, like others multicarts, emulate a multiplexed ROM: while Rom return electrically the data when red, the emulation works reading the inty's cpu phases and writing the data to the bus. The timing in this is critical for synchronize the inty and the emulator. To get best timing value, i added in code a routine for varying delays constants with RTO buttons, and displaying it on lcd display. 

Anyway, the default values works fine in all working pal console me and my friends tested. In one case, the problems depended from a bad PSU, that didn't give to RTO the 5v needed. Since the daughter board get more power than a normal console, it could be a further test to do: power the RTO with USB cable, and see!

IMO, the glitch you got  depend from the consoles, and varying the time may help things, but won't resolve the issue.

[Tissemon]

Oh, never thought it could be a power issue since I’ve recapped and change the power regulators on the psu, but I have only got one psu to test with.

Is it safe to power the teensy on the RTO with 5v from external source while it’s in the Inty? If it is, I could definitely try it!
 

[aotta]

7 minutes ago, Tissemon said:

Oh, never thought it could be a power issue since I’ve recapped and change the power regulators on the psu, but I have only got one psu to test with.

Is it safe to power the teensy on the RTO with 5v from external source while it’s in the Inty? If it is, I could definitely try it!
 

i did it while debugging, and the Teensy survived. I think double powering it's not recommended for long time use, but safe for some tests.

[Tissemon]

1 hour ago, aotta said:

i did it while debugging, and the Teensy survived. I think double powering it's not recommended for long time use, but safe for some tests.

Ok! Now I’ve tested with 5v directly to the RTO as well. Didn’t help, unfortunately. Got the exact same glitches as before with the daughter board pcb:s.

[Tissemon]

I will recap the other PCB with a daughter board tomorrow and see if anything changes. If it still doesn’t work, I’ll just pop in the normal pcb and be done with it. Let me know if you want me to do any specific last testing with recapped daughter board pcb tomorrow.