Intellivision RTO-MultiCart - new multicart

[Tissemon]

Another approach: could my reset-issue be because of an issue with my connector?

 

On the PCB that auto-boots RTO I have almost never had any issues when inserting any cart and starting them up.

But with this PCB that I'm using now, all original carts work fine, but I have had big troubles getting the RTO to work at all.

At first, when I got it, it hardly worked with any carts - but then I bent out all the pins with a needle and all original games worked after that. But not the RTO - I managed to figure out that if I pressed the RTO all the way in, and then tilted it just a tiny bit towards myself, it would work. I think that maybe one or more of the pins in the connector touched two lines in the RTO cart and that could maybe be the reason it wouldn't work.

So I went through and tried to make all the pins in the connector absolutely straight, as good as I could. And after that the RTO cart actually works when pressed right in. At least most of the time. There are still times that it won't start at all after I take it out and plug it in again. At those times I have to take it out and plug it in again for around 1-10 times before it works. But when I actually get it to work and leave it in, it works every time after that.

 

But I don't know, perhaps there is still a pin in the connector touching two lines in the RTO cart? Could this reset issue be triggered if that was the case? And if so - which pins should I look into more carefully?

[aotta]

Original carts have reset always tied to gnd, so a bad connection may be not an issue, while RTO needs goods contact. You should check all the track in intellivision from reset cartridge pin (no. 12) to the capacitor, and clean it with IPA.

This is reset pin:

Edited August 25, 2023 by aotta

[Tissemon]

I think I’m about to give up now. I’ve opened up, resoldered the connector and cleaned all pins one extra time. Didn’t help. So I checked all connections with the cart inserted - pin 2 actually had bad connection, which may explain why sometimes the cart wouldn’t work at all. So I corrected that pin in the connector and now the RTO seem to work every time I insert it. But only after manual reset. Tried with both the original reset routine and the routine by 5-11. I might try to modify my RTO-cart as 5-11 suggested some time later, but for now I’ll just accept that I will have to press reset 😞

[aotta]

1 hour ago, Tissemon said:

 I might try to modify my RTO-cart as 5-11 suggested some time later, but for now I’ll just accept that I will have to press reset 😞

Unfortunatelly you're not the only one with a reset issue with RTO cart, i had reported some strange behaviours in resetting that i can't reproduce at the moment and so neither resolve. One friends of mine has two RTO carts, one works fine and the other doesn't reset itself, with the same console!

Probably the 5-11 way to gnd the pin 12 is "stronger" and works better, and maybe i'd adopt the Chip Enable on/off solution in the next 1.2 release. I'd like to design a cheaper solution based on the Raspberry pico instead of a Teensy. I'm working on others projects actually, but in fall i could recover my intellivision from the box!

[Tissemon]

@5-11under do I understand you right, that this is how I should patch the RTO if I want to try your code instead? I guess I’ll also have to cut some traces - do you know which ones to cut?

[+5-11under]

Sorry... I don't have that same board. I'm also away from any schematics and layouts at the moment... but if you follow the wiring I mentioned earlier, it should, should, be okay. Other circuitry connected to the same points would need to be removed, of course.

[aotta]

@Tissemon and all other guys that had issue in RTO autoresetting, i attach a new version of RTOCart ino code that include a workaround proposed by @JaneDoe649 (thanks to her/him) on my github's page.

It should work with both Inty I & II and with original RTOCart board (without any hw mod).

Please feel free to test it and report if it fix your issue!

RTOCart1.1a.ino

[Tissemon]

2 hours ago, aotta said:

@Tissemon and all other guys that had issue in RTO autoresetting, i attach a new version of RTOCart ino code that include a workaround proposed by @JaneDoe649 (thanks to her/him) on my github's page.

It should work with both Inty I & II and with original RTOCart board (without any hw mod).

Please feel free to test it and report if it fix your issue!

RTOCart1.1a.ino 28.14 kB · 2 downloads

Thanks for this fix, but unfortunately it didn't work for me. With this fix my RTO sometimes boots to the RTO-logo, but most of the time I have to press reset to get it. After I select a game I always have to press reset.
Let me know if you've got any other idea - I'm happy to test any software-solution to this "problem".

[aotta]

Thank you @Tissemon for testing, but it's strange you got reset working only sometime, and never when console is "warm".

The circuit it's simple, the capacitor need to be discharged to reset the cpu, and that's why the cartridge ground it via slot's pin 12.

And, since the Intellivision II (as far as i can read in schematic) use a 4.7uf capacitor instead a 1uf capacitor, that's probably why RTOCart seems have more issue in resetting when used in a Inty II instead of in a classic one.

I have only two Intellivision I PAL console with new 1uf caps and both work without issue, so i can't do any test for helping guys with problem in reset, like you, but there are only two way in my opinion to check further:

1) hardware: the fact that original cartridges start itself doesn't mean for sure that your reset circuit is fine, since they have pin 12 ALWAYS tied to ground. In this case, charging and discharging timing have no difference, while in RTO the reset is software driven, and timing is crucial.

So, you should test the 10k resistor R15 if is good, and maybe try if using a bigger one (i.e. a 20k one) or a less power capacitor C26 (i.e. a  0.47uF - 470nF) could change (and how) the scenario.   

2) software: the missing reset it's becouse your C26 capacitor can't discharge completely and setting reset line to 0V: maybe changing the timing in new ResetCart() routine, and i think in particular lowering the delay after resetHigh and improving the pause after the resetLow. I've no console with issue to test, but that's what i'll do in case.

 

[Tissemon]

38 minutes ago, aotta said:

Thank you @Tissemon for testing, but it's strange you got reset working only sometime, and never when console is "warm".

The circuit it's simple, the capacitor need to be discharged to reset the cpu, and that's why the cartridge ground it via slot's pin 12.

And, since the Intellivision II (as far as i can read in schematic) use a 4.7uf capacitor instead a 1uf capacitor, that's probably why RTOCart seems have more issue in resetting when used in a Inty II instead of in a classic one.

I have only two Intellivision I PAL console with new 1uf caps and both work without issue, so i can't do any test for helping guys with problem in reset, like you, but there are only two way in my opinion to check further:

1) hardware: the fact that original cartridges start itself doesn't mean for sure that your reset circuit is fine, since they have pin 12 ALWAYS tied to ground. In this case, charging and discharging timing have no difference, while in RTO the reset is software driven, and timing is crucial.

So, you should test the 10k resistor R15 if is good, and maybe try if using a bigger one (i.e. a 20k one) or a less power capacitor C26 (i.e. a  0.47uF - 470nF) could change (and how) the scenario.   

2) software: the missing reset it's becouse your C26 capacitor can't discharge completely and setting reset line to 0V: maybe changing the timing in new ResetCart() routine, and i think in particular lowering the delay after resetHigh and improving the pause after the resetLow. I've no console with issue to test, but that's what i'll do in case.

 

Thanks for the feedback! First of all, I just realized that I took out the resistor from R6 in my RTO cart. Could this be the reason that this new fix didn't work (I've tried original firmware with resistor, jumped together by wire and now without connection at all). I should perhaps begin with putting the resistor back, or what do you think?

If that won't work, I'll look into my INTV and check R15 and C26. As I've said earlier, I've got a brand new 1uf BP capacitor on the reset line now. And before that I also tried with original 1uf BP (same result as now) and a ceramic 1uf capacitor (the ceramic also forced me to reset but added glitches in some games).

[aotta]

@Tissemon you don't need to add R6 in RTO pcb, i used it only for testing purpose but it's not needed.

Indeed, it's strange you got issue with polarized capacitor, i used it with success and some intellivision schematics (and the "II" too) show a polarised cap in reset circuitry

 

[Tissemon]

11 hours ago, aotta said:

@Tissemon you don't need to add R6 in RTO pcb, i used it only for testing purpose but it's not needed.

Indeed, it's strange you got issue with polarized capacitor, i used it with success and some intellivision schematics (and the "II" too) show a polarised cap in reset circuitry

 

Update: I just tried my cart again without case, before I was going to solder back the 4,7kohm resistor on R6 and then the cart booted automatically! So firmware seems to be ok, it now looks like my connector is the culprit in all of this.

 

But anyhow, I soldered the resistor back, but then I couldn't get it to boot automatically - I'm not 100% sure if I didn't get it right into my connector or if it had to do with the resistor... I took the resistor back out and after about 10 tries I got it to boot automatically again. But the image has more grains in it than my original games. The R6-resistor should fix that, right?

[aotta]

No, R6 was added only for testing the code, it tie to gnd the software reset line when floating, but it's not needed at all in final version and i don't think it could help you with issue you have

[Tissemon]

OK! It seems to be working for me now after I changed the 1uF bipolarized capacitor for a new one. I don’t know exactly why because they were both brand new and I measured them with my Multimeter before soldering them in. The first one that didn’t work showed 1.14uF and the second one, that worked showed 1,16uF. Could that small difference really be the culprit? Anyhow - for other people with this problem - try different caps until it works

And also - I found out why I had so much grain in the image all of a sudden. I have my INTV unit on top of a VCR that the INTV is connected to with RF cable - it’s the VCR that makes the interference! When I move the INTV away from the VCR I get a nice, smooth image 😆

[aotta]

7 minutes ago, Tissemon said:

 

And also - I found out why I had so much grain in the image all of a sudden. I have my INTV unit on top of a VCR that the INTV is connected to with RF cable - it’s the VCR that makes the interference! When I move the INTV away from the VCR I get a nice, smooth image 😆

 

That's what the metal shield around the Intellivisionmotherboard is for...  

[Tissemon]

1 hour ago, aotta said:

That's what the metal shield around the Intellivisionmotherboard is for...  

the shield is in there, both top and bottom. Doesn’t help though 😞 

[aotta]

I see... I thought that because I'm too lazy to resolder the shield and almost all my retro are .. naked! But, I've no more VCR 😂

[Tissemon]

Hi, it's me again 🙂 

Is there a reason why there's 45 characters as limit for filenames? I noticed that "Masters of the Universe - The Power of He-Man! (1983)(Mattel).bin" and a couple of other ROMs that I have are longer than that, and therefore doesn't show up at all on the RTO.

I know that I could just rename them, but it would be even better if there is an easy fix to make RTO support longer filenames. Can I just change (longfilename,45) to (longfilename,100) or will that break something else?

[aotta]

Well it's not difficult but not so easy, you have to chance the 45 in other code lines where filename is parsed.

And, it use much memory. If you don't have 8mb expansion on your teensy, you may incur in out of memory if you don't resize the big rom Array. But, if you don't use the big apple demo (the only that use all ram!) You'll be able to follow that way!

Edited:

i gave a quick look at code, and the filename's arrays are used only once a time, so i don't think that you'll go into some out of memory!

Edited December 11, 2023 by aotta

[Tissemon]

4 hours ago, aotta said:

Well it's not difficult but not so easy, you have to chance the 45 in other code lines where filename is parsed.

And, it use much memory. If you don't have 8mb expansion on your teensy, you may incur in out of memory if you don't resize the big rom Array. But, if you don't use the big apple demo (the only that use all ram!) You'll be able to follow that way!

Edited:

i gave a quick look at code, and the filename's arrays are used only once a time, so i don't think that you'll go into some out of memory!

Thanks for your quick reply! I'll try to change this then!

 

Another question is one that I've been thinking of for a long time now - is it possible to alter the output to the audio-pin on the cart?

In other words: would it be theoretically possible to implement an intellivoice emulator that outputs the altered audiostream on the Roms that have a cfg-file that states that it should use Intellivoice?

If it's possible, I'm thinking that one maybe can convert the code from this emulator somehow: https://github.com/libretro/FreeIntv/tree/master/src

[aotta]

4 minutes ago, Tissemon said:

Thanks for your quick reply! I'll try to change this then!

 

Another question is one that I've been thinking of for a long time now - is it possible to alter the output to the audio-pin on the cart?

In other words: would it be theoretically possible to implement an intellivoice emulator that outputs the altered audiostream on the Roms that have a cfg-file that states that it should use Intellivoice?

If it's possible, I'm thinking that one maybe can convert the code from this emulator somehow: https://github.com/libretro/FreeIntv/tree/master/src

The brief answer is "no".

In more details, is not possibile without adding a second mpu or other hw: i used the Teensy becouse it's the only board with more than 16 gpio and an embedded sdcard reader, but it's a SINGLE CORE board. So, when it emulates the ROM, the teensy can't do anything else, or the intellivision will freeze.

That's why RTO can't use an on screen menu for selecting files, nor implement ECS nor Intellivoice commands. It was not easy even handle the reset while emulating the Inty ROM and RAM I/O with correct timing!

[Tissemon]

9 hours ago, aotta said:

The brief answer is "no".

In more details, is not possibile without adding a second mpu or other hw: i used the Teensy becouse it's the only board with more than 16 gpio and an embedded sdcard reader, but it's a SINGLE CORE board. So, when it emulates the ROM, the teensy can't do anything else, or the intellivision will freeze.

That's why RTO can't use an on screen menu for selecting files, nor implement ECS nor Intellivoice commands. It was not easy even handle the reset while emulating the Inty ROM and RAM I/O with correct timing!

Ah, I see. Too bad, but anyway, I'm happy with the RTO you have come up with and that I have.

It was just that I saw this PiTrex-project and got all sorts of crazy ideas of what might be possible to do with a cart 🙂 http://www.ombertech.com/cnk/pitrex/wiki/

I know it's not exactly the same, as it doesn't use the consoles internal processor at all, but some of the other features are awesome - like support for keyboard through the Pi Zero USB - would be great if it was possible to emulate ECS and just plug in a regular USB-keyboard to the cart. The PiTrex also has some cool new ideas like saving high-score in games that would be really nice to have on Intellivision as well.

Pi Zero also has a hdmi-output, so maybe it would even be possible to output digital image through that port?

And maybe even emulate Colecovision games? And of course: Intellivoice-emulation 🙂

 

Well well, I'm dreaming here. And I also want to note that I'm not trying to disrespect you or your work with RTO - it's still really impressive and awesome!

But if you or someone else feel that you want to redesign this cart, maybe using a Pi Zero 2 would be a good start - it seems to be able to do a lot of cool stuff and is getting back in stock here in europe now for only €20. 

[Tissemon]

On 12/11/2023 at 4:57 PM, aotta said:

Well it's not difficult but not so easy, you have to chance the 45 in other code lines where filename is parsed.

And, it use much memory. If you don't have 8mb expansion on your teensy, you may incur in out of memory if you don't resize the big rom Array. But, if you don't use the big apple demo (the only that use all ram!) You'll be able to follow that way!

Edited:

i gave a quick look at code, and the filename's arrays are used only once a time, so i don't think that you'll go into some out of memory!

I can confirm that longer filenames works fine!

I changed it to max 101 characters instead - should be enough. I also got tired of seeing my stupid .DS_Store and other folders that my Mac keeps creating on my memory card, so I also changed it up a bit so it hides all files and folders starting with . och _ (so I can also create a _manuals folder and keep all my pdf-manuals on the same memory card).

I found a bug though - If you are looking and the first file in a folder and press the Previous button, it doesn't get to the last entry in the folder (since it doesn't know how many files there are in the folder) until you have stepped through every entry and gotten back to the first file, after that it works.

It should be fixable by listing all files to an array. That would also make it possible to sort all the files. I might look into this some more, but right now I'm happy with just being able to see the long filenames 🙂

If anybody else wants to try my fix, here it is.

RTOCart1_1a_Tisse.ino

Edited December 13, 2023 by Tissemon

[Fierodoug5]

I am having trouble getting the Teensy programmed in Arduino IDE.

I get this error message

Compilation error: redefinition of 'Adafruit_SSD1306 display'

Any ideas? 

Thanx! 

[Fierodoug5]

Redownloaded the code and got it to work