Is buying a 4 port 5200 worth it?

[+x=usr(1536)]

12 minutes ago, Keatah said:

Well yes the 5200 certainly has better custom chips than Intellivision or Colecovision, more of them too. The C64 comes closer with SID and VIC-II, but IMHO still doesn't trump it either.

There's always the C64GS

12 minutes ago, Keatah said:

Did anyone ever do memory upgrades for the 5200? Or is it simply more practical to go straight to the computer lineup?

I've heard of people doing them, but am not aware of anything that ever took advantage of them.  Better to go straight to the A8 range if that was something of interest.

[Keatah]

43 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said:

There's always the C64GS

That's doing no better! It's worse even! Sold for the same price as the more fully featured 64. Sounds like the industry was over-vibrating itself with market saturation, trying to shake up the consumer and occupy every niche possible.

 

It was dumb to have ports on the board and not have them exposed. Dumb to not have a keyboard - because not having it eliminated a lot of compatibility. And even dumber that it was released in 1990's! Talk about dated technology in a world where even 16-bit was becoming passe. Furthermore what developer would want to release a version of their computer game that could only have joystick control in an age when keyboards were integral to (computer) gaming? Just no!

 

IMHO the C64 may have been the most cost-effective and popular combination of both a game console and computer. A formula that was hard to beat.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Keatah

[zylon]

5 hours ago, Ecernosoft said:

Welp the highest RAM requirement by ANTIC is 8k. If you need more than 8k for the cpu, add extra RAM right?

That's the question. In theory, I'd imagine some expansion is possible, based on the 400 architecture the 5200 is derived from. However, it lacks the slots for expansion, which the 400 had. If it can support it, you'd have to direct wire something in. More is helpful in simultaneous multi-player games, especially busy ones. This was seen in the very limited 5200 Gauntlet port, some years ago.

[+x=usr(1536)]

1 hour ago, zylon said:

That's the question. In theory, I'd imagine some expansion is possible, based on the 400 architecture the 5200 is derived from.

From a brief comparison of the 5200 and 800XL's memory hardware, the two seem pretty similar: 8xDRAM and nearly-interchangeable supporting logic.  They're not a 100% match, but appear to be functionally-equivalent.

 

(Apologies for going with the 800XL; I'm more familiar with it than the 400.)

 

I wonder if one of these might not be a possibility.  Instant 64K, more or less.  The necessary signals should be present on the 5200's PCB somewhere, so, in theory, it should work.  Should

 

Thinking about it, with that SRAM module installed, it would open up the possibility of things like RAMBO upgrades.  Nifty.

[zylon]

8 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

From a brief comparison of the 5200 and 800XL's memory hardware, the two seem pretty similar: 8xDRAM and nearly-interchangeable supporting logic.  They're not a 100% match, but appear to be functionally-equivalent.

 

(Apologies for going with the 800XL; I'm more familiar with it than the 400.)

 

I wonder if one of these might not be a possibility.  Instant 64K, more or less.  The necessary signals should be present on the 5200's PCB somewhere, so, in theory, it should work.  Should

 

Thinking about it, with that SRAM module installed, it would open up the possibility of things like RAMBO upgrades.  Nifty.

I did a few 600xl's, before I got a deal on stack of working XEGS mobos, and traded up. I did the internal route, 2 IC's and few bits of wire, but the 1064 add-on was also possible. https://www.tindie.com/products/5cfab/64k-memory-upgrade-for-the-atari-600xl/

I'm thinking something that could use the 5200 rear expansion port. 

[+x=usr(1536)]

17 hours ago, zylon said:

I did a few 600xl's, before I got a deal on stack of working XEGS mobos, and traded up. I did the internal route, 2 IC's and few bits of wire, but the 1064 add-on was also possible.

Yup.  And on the 600XL, either approach would work - but it's somewhat unique in how it implements its memory hardware.  IIRC, it's closer in design to the XEGS than any other A8.  More:

17 hours ago, zylon said:

https://www.tindie.com/products/5cfab/64k-memory-upgrade-for-the-atari-600xl/

I'm thinking something that could use the 5200 rear expansion port. 

The idea's fine, but from what I recall there aren't enough address lines on the expansion port to be able to access anything other than really small (one page, IIRC) memory windows.  You could bankswitch them, but they'd still be tiny.  There was some talk at one point (again, IIRC) about being able to pair up the lines on the cartridge port with the lines on the expansion port via a ribbon cable and have pretty much an entire 64K available, but details are also hazy in my mind on that one.

 

Not sure if I still have a spare SRAM module laying around or not.  Something tells me that I used it, and the one I know that I have is slated to go in to the 800XL.  Might be worth experimenting with, though.

[zylon]

6 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Yup.  And on the 600XL, either approach would work - but it's somewhat unique in how it handles its memory hardware.  IIRC, it's closer in design to the XEGS than any other A8.  More:

The idea's fine, but from what I recall there aren't enough address lines on the expansion port to be able to access anything other than really small (one page, IIRC) memory windows.  You could bankswitch them, but they'd still be tiny.  There was some talk at one point (again, IIRC) about being able to pair up the lines on the cartridge port with the lines on the expansion port via a ribbon cable and have pretty much an entire 64K available, but details are also hazy in my mind on that one.

 

Not sure if I still have a spare SRAM module laying around or not.  Something tells me that I used it, and the one I know that I have is slated to go in to the 800XL.  Might be worth experimenting with, though.

Just ideas I've thrown around, as the 5200 is limited to what the stock 400/600xl was able to do, thus hampering as much development as could be. That was a major reason I upgraded those 600xl's, and eventually switched to XE. On the upside, the Atarimax cart allows bigger content projects to be run. Folks could just get one, and most likely have already. Hell, I got them for both setups, lol.

I remember reading awhile back, about the 5200 exp port having very narrow bandwidth available. 

[+x=usr(1536)]

19 hours ago, zylon said:

Just ideas I've thrown around, as the 5200 is limited to what the stock 400/600xl was able to do, thus hampering as much development as could be. That was a major reason I upgraded those 600xl's, and eventually switched to XE.

Totally understood.  To be honest, I have a hard time seeing how 5200 upgrades much beyond a UAV or similar would really have much in the way of benefit.  As technical accomplishments, sure - but from a practical standpoint, more RAM or a Rapidus (for example) doesn't really gain much because the software just isn't there to take advantage of it.  Having said that:

19 hours ago, zylon said:

On the upside, the Atarimax cart allows bigger content projects to be run. Folks could just get one, and most likely have already. Hell, I got them for both setups, lol.

The Atarimax is, IMHO, the single best upgrade anyone can do to a 5200, with the UAV being a very close second.  My daily driver 5200 is running both and they do a great job of making it very versatile.

19 hours ago, zylon said:

I remember reading awhile back, about the 5200 exp port having very narrow bandwidth available. 

Now that you mention it, I seem to recall that being the case - and a major factor in why I lost interest in the expansion port

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Best use of the expansion port is providing a nice place to install the AV jacks on video upgrades...