EricBall Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 (edited) In some of my previous posts I've hinted that I have been working on a 7800 homebrew. Well, I'm now ready to reveal that I am working on bringing the PDP-1 classic Spacewar to the 7800. Although it is nowhere close to finished, you can download the current source code (with comments!) and binary. There is also a lengthy project diary over at www.videobrewery.com, for those interested in the my ramblings. 7800 Spacewar uses the 7800 320x1 mode (320A), so MESS 0.74 or better is recommended. Edited April 18, 2005 by EricBall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy the Atarian Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Awesome! I've been hoping for some more homebrew projects to come along on the 7800, and Space War is certainly a good one. How complete is the game so far? Any idea of how long until you're finished? Good luck on the project! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kondre Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 If you get that game to Cart form, I will be in line to get one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayhem Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Interesting so far Please make PAL version compability too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubersaurus Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 In some of my previous posts I've hinted that I have been working on a 7800 homebrew. Well, I'm now ready to reveal that I am working on bringing the PDP-11 classic Spacewar to the 7800. Although it is nowhere close to finished, you can download the current source code (with comments!) and binary. There is also a lengthy project diary over at www.videobrewery.com, for those interested in the my ramblings. 7800 Spacewar uses the 7800 320x1 mode (320A), so MESS 0.74 or better is recommended. OH MY GOD! I was thinking about porting spacewar to the 7800, but if you're gonna do it, awesome Things I want to see: several game options (asteroid, gravity strength, black hole, inertia) expensive planetarium variable ship damage, like the arcade version computer AI maybe? and of course, proper amounts of fuel and ammunition (as well as range of your bullets). I'll get the cart of this so fast... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEBRO Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Although it is nowhere close to finished, you can download the current source code (with comments!) and binary. Source code with comments Thanks Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy the Atarian Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 OH MY GOD! I was thinking about porting spacewar to the 7800, but if you're gonna do it, awesome Things I want to see: several game options (asteroid, gravity strength, black hole, inertia) real planetarium variable ship damage, like the arcade version computer AI maybe? and of course, proper amounts of fuel and ammunition (as well as range of your bullets). I'll get the cart of this so fast... I'm with ubersaurus, those kind of options would make the game even cooler, and I was thinking maybe even making something like a galactic map where you can or need to warp to where you can goto a different solar system with a different type of sun/gravity pull, etc. Just an idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 For some reason I found this amusing: 12:00 19/09/2003 Learned something interesting about the 7800 which might impact spacewar. Because the 7800 pixel clock is 2x colorburst, alternating on/off pixels create a colorburst frequency waveform, and get mangled by the TV's chroma circuit. Heheh. Been a few years since I've seen someone "discover" artifacting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBall Posted October 1, 2003 Author Share Posted October 1, 2003 Most of the answers to these questions can be found in the project diary, but I'll answer them rather than force you to read my rambles. How complete is the game so far? Any idea of how long until you're finished? Right now I've got the basic display kernal working and the players rotating. Player movement (thrust and gravity) is next. I'm working on it when I can, though now that I can see something I have more incentive. Please make PAL version compability too The code is designed to be converted to PAL without too much trouble. Things I want to see: several game options (asteroid, gravity strength, black hole, inertia), expensive planetarium, variable ship damage, like the arcade version, computer AI maybe? and of course, proper amounts of fuel and ammunition (as well as range of your bullets). I was thinking maybe even making something like a galactic map where you can or need to warp to where you can goto a different solar system with a different type of sun/gravity pull, etc. Unfortunately, I doubt I will be able to put in your suggestions as I only have currently 667 bytes left in the 4K cart. (Why 4K? So it can be put on a standard 2600 4K PCB; and compete in next year's 4K compo. ) Heheh. Been a few years since I've seen someone "discover" artifacting. I've been working with component instead of composite for too long. I'm still puzzled why the 7800 has so many 320 modes when they can't avoid artifacts. At least you read my ramblings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubersaurus Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Unfortunately, I doubt I will be able to put in your suggestions as I only have currently 667 bytes left in the 4K cart. (Why 4K? So it can be put on a standard 2600 4K PCB; and compete in next year's 4K compo. ) Admit it, you just want to do a Spacewar+ Platinum Edition down the line Personally, as long as there's variable options for gravity and intertia and stuff like the arcade version, I'm happy. Ok, the asteroid would be pretty sweet too ;p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 At least you read my ramblings. Speaking of which, there are a couple easy fixes to your "shots hitting ship that fired them" problem. 1. Tag each shot with an "owner" bit. 2. Reserve a block of object numbers/slots for each ship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 I've always been a huge fan of Spacewar. I think the first version I played was the big Space Wars arcade cabinet. A friend and I also used to spend a lot of time playing the Vectrex version. Can't wait to see how this new version turns out! ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Mitchell Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Here's another article about Spacewar: http://users.rcn.com/enf/lore/spacewar/spacewar.html And somewhere there is a PC emulation of the PDP-11 which plays the original code of Spacewar. There are two kinds of Spacewar out there and they are categorized as follows: 1. Atari 2600 SW: Flow with the gravity and momentum 2. Vectrex SW: Thrust from point to point then turn and blast. The PDP-11 emulation is more of a physics game where gravity and direction of thrust affect your path around the star-mass center. Even the bullets are affected by the gravity gradient! Will this be part of the gameplay? Q: Will there be levels of destruction? a partially destroyed ship can still function somewhat .. But not hyperspace. Q: AI against the computer? Ok .. I forgot .. You only have a few bytes left .. Well make it hard! I hope it supports the 2600 joystick .. that means that it will work with the Starplex 5 button (LRHTF) controller. Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveW Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Anyone know of a functional Atari 7800 emulator for the Mac? MacMESS isn't up to the same version as the PC, and it doesn't cover the 7800. I couldn't find anything at www.emulation.net that would run 7800 games. I'd really like to try Space War out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry_Dodgson Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 For some reason I found this amusing:12:00 19/09/2003 Learned something interesting about the 7800 which might impact spacewar. Because the 7800 pixel clock is 2x colorburst, alternating on/off pixels create a colorburst frequency waveform, and get mangled by the TV's chroma circuit. Heheh. Been a few years since I've seen someone "discover" artifacting. If you want to get rid of the artifacts, just turn off the color. I did that on the 7800/2600 Monitor cartridge so the text was readable. This also gives you "true" black and white on color televisions. Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumpbucket Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Hey Eric! Looks great, and thanks for supporting videobrewery.com! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBall Posted October 2, 2003 Author Share Posted October 2, 2003 If you want to get rid of the artifacts, just turn off the color. I did that on the 7800/2600 Monitor cartridge so the text was readable. This also gives you "true" black and white on color televisions. I have done that; I suspected it might help. Thanks for the confirmation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBall Posted October 2, 2003 Author Share Posted October 2, 2003 Some more notes: As Albert pointed out on the front page, SPACEWAR! was originally done for the PDP-1 (although a version most likely exists for the PDP-11). I am not doing a port of any specific version, just using the basic ideas & title. Call it a homage if you will. My desire is to have thrust, gravity (with a killer signularity) and shots (not affected by gravity, just like the original). Two player only, unfortunately. I will try to put in the hyperspace manuver too. Thrust should be accurate. Gravity is approximated somewhat. Once I get the movement code done (in progress) we'll see how well it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Anyone know of a functional Atari 7800 emulator for the Mac? MacMESS isn't up to the same version as the PC, and it doesn't cover the 7800. I couldn't find anything at www.emulation.net that would run 7800 games. I'd really like to try Space War out. MacMESS isn't that far behind the Windows version. There haven't been many changes to the 7800 driver since the last Mac version. Also, MacMESS does have 7800 support, unless they have disabled it in the latest rev. I know people have used it in the past. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory DG Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Looks cool! Glad to finally see some 7800 development! What kind of 7800 hardware tricks will be used for the game? Will there be a "2000" mode that includes updated graphics? What about a "race through space" mode where the two ships attack each other in a "space warp" style animated background? (Remember Earthworm Jim?) Keep up the good work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christianscott27 Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 great project. i have soft spot for spacewar, its metroboston's claim to the birthplace of video games title. if you need cart shells or anything like that i'd be happy to round some up. best wishes for a great homebrew project! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Glad to see the plunge taken and some development in the works. Eric would love it when you've done this experiment if you'd consider doing a game that takes full advantage of the 7800's abilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubersaurus Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Some more notes: As Albert pointed out on the front page, SPACEWAR! was originally done for the PDP-1 (although a version most likely exists for the PDP-11). I am not doing a port of any specific version, just using the basic ideas & title. Call it a homage if you will. My desire is to have thrust, gravity (with a killer signularity) and shots (not affected by gravity, just like the original). Two player only, unfortunately. I will try to put in the hyperspace manuver too. Thrust should be accurate. Gravity is approximated somewhat. Once I get the movement code done (in progress) we'll see how well it works. if its an homage, you'll have to make it open source ;p I've been hoping for a truly GOOD port of spacewar for a long time. There hasn't ever been one. Personally, I can understand wanting to make it 4k to enter it in the contest, but I just don't understand why not keep building it from there, to make one that truly is deserving of the name spacewar. The atari one was pretty weak, the vectrex one didn't do gravity/acceleration/inertia very well, and although I've never tried the c64 one, I'm not expecting much. About the only way to play real good spacewar is on the computer, and well, a keyboard isn't well suited to 2 people. Just my thoughts. Space Wars is probably one of my favorite games of all time, I guess I just want to see the best possible version of it on a home console. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Mitchell Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 I've been hoping for a truly GOOD port of spacewar for a long time. ... The atari one was pretty weak, the vectrex one didn't do gravity/acceleration/inertia very well, and although I've never tried the c64 one, I'm not expecting much. About the only way to play real good spacewar is on the computer, and well, a keyboard isn't well suited to 2 people. Agreed! Eric .. Make it as close to the PDP version as possible .. and make it a challenge (ie hard!). Neither the Atari 2600 or the Vectrex versions are a challenge or strategy games. Also .. would you compile it to a BIN file (8k) so that those of us now beta testing the CC2 can try it out on real hardware? Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBall Posted October 3, 2003 Author Share Posted October 3, 2003 if its an homage, you'll have to make it open source ;p It is open source, or didn't you see that I have included commented source? Also .. would you compile it to a BIN file (8k) so that those of us now beta testing the CC2 can try it out on real hardware? Chad's CC2 firmware doesn't handle 4K A78 files? Sounds like something which should be easy to add/fix. Otherwise add an ORG $E000 before the A78 header section and re-assemble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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