What should I get for my Atari 800XL ?

[Shift838]

I recently purchased a stock 800XL and looking into getting some upgrades.

 

I see the FujiNet, and I will be getting one of those.

 

No I have read about the SDrive-Max and SIDE 3.1 and what they can do, which is more recommended?

 

I am also planning on doing the 1MB Ultimate upgrade and the VBXL.

 

I do have a question about the VBXL, can it be installed along side of Spectre AV, Ultimate Atari Video (UAV) or the Ultimage Gated Video boards ?  This way I can get the RGB out as wel has be able to use the composite if needed or even svideo?

 

Any other modifications recommended ?

 

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

1 hour ago, Shift838 said:

I see the FujiNet, and I will be getting one of those.

Definitely recommended.

1 hour ago, Shift838 said:

No I have read about the SDrive-Max and SIDE 3.1 and what they can do, which is more recommended?

Go with the SIDE 3.1, particularly if you're already planning on picking up a FujiNet; it will give you to run cartridge images, which neither the FujiNet nor SDrive Max will.

 

With a SIDE 3.1 and FujiNet you'll have about as much hardware emulation flexibility as you can get.  The SDrive Max is a good piece of hardware, but its functionality is covered by the FujiNet.

1 hour ago, Shift838 said:

I am also planning on doing the 1MB Ultimate upgrade and the VBXL.

No opinion on the VBXL, but the U1MB will integrate very tightly with the SIDE 3.1.  With a FujiNet thrown into the mix, you'll have a machine that is pretty much ready for anything you may throw at it.

[Shift838]

I also saw a 64k SRAM upgrade module on Lotharek’s Lair.  I should not need this if I am doing the ultimate 1MB upgrade, correct?

[Beeblebrox]

First question. Is your Atari 800XL a Hong Kong made machine, urgo fully socketed? It'll make it much easier to upgrade.

2nd question. Is your stock 800XL a standard ntsc 800XL, or an 800XLF, (latter has a Freddie chip which also means there is a chroma connection by default). Chroma is needed for an Svideo connection. For standard 800XL machines that don't have Freddie chip these didn't have chroma hooked up at the factory. (It's a quick fix so do on a stock 800XL BTW involving hooking up a pin on the Din5 via a jumper wire with an 100omh resistor in the mix - very easy). Once done, using any din5 to S-video cable results in a colour output, rather than black and white. 

 

FYI as you probably know when it comes to stock outputs it's S-video as the best, then composite, and the RF. 

 

U1MB is highly recommended, as is Side3 (Get 3.1).

Also alternatively look into the excellent AVG cart as well. Plenty of info about it on Atariage. 

 

You can have VBXE (XL)  installed in the stock 800XL alongside UAV, or UGV, and probably Spectre. 

 

Worth noting if you were taking about an XE here, you would struggle a little to install VBXE and anything plugging into the gtia socket as on the XE the antic and gtia sockets are vertically next to each other so I believe no room to have both. 

 

An AA member called Woj has done a lot in this area I believe, cramming a huge amount of upgrades into his XE. Check out this thread :https://forums.atariage.com/topic/340093-another-new-130xe-boots-to-red-screen/?do=findComment&comment=5206969

 

****

 

VBXE is installed in the Antic socket, with antic piggy backing it.

UGV goes in the gtia socket. Again. Gtia chip piggy backing it. 

 

If going for UAV, UGV or Spectre pick one. I personally have a few UGVs installed in my A8. 

(check out: https://forums.atariage.com/topic/346287-ugv-installed-in-my-130xe-great-display-output-quality/.) 

 

 

The UGV board can be wired directly to the existing din5 jack, (where you can hook up audio to come out of it), or to a daughter board with a mini S-video jack, (where you would need to then install an audio out jack). 

 

More info here:https://ataribits.weebly.com/ugv.html

And as you are in the US:https://thebrewingacademy.com/products/ultimate-gated-video-by-mytek-1

 

VBXE (XL) is a video graphics enhancement board which gives your A8 a lot more than just a nice rgb output.

 

It can be hooked up to a few different output connections. I am in the UK and use a DIN13 to scart for. My rgb. This is mainly because TVs over here after have a scart, (whereas I believe that isn't the case in the US). The din13 is a jack that goes in place of the RF modulator which you can remove.

 

There is an existing din13 to scart cable sold here in the UK by Cool novelties which is for an Atari 1088Xel which you wire the din13 jack up for. I don't think you'll be installing this because you likely won't have a scart setup, but just in case see here:https://forums.atariage.com/topic/342316-din13-rgb-mapped-pinout-for-vbxe-stock-800xl-for-coolnovelties-1088xel-rgb-scart-cable/

(on the above topic you'll also find Flashjazzcat's two videos, one showing how to remove the rf modulator and another showing the VBXE installation process). 

 

For other VBXE rgb out connector options see Lotharek's  installation instructions under file tab here:

https://lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=54

 

****

 

I'd say U1MB is highly recommended. 

 

Video wise IMHO I'd check if you need to hook up chroma in the first instance and go with the stock s-video first. You can get a very good image from s-video. (There are also some nice quick tweaks to improve the image which I won't necessarily go into now but are well documented).

 

Then from there if you still want rgb you can opt for VBXE, and where you want the other non rgb output you can look into installing either UGV, UAV or spectre. 

 

One other option is back on the cards of late, (albeit there is a long waiting list) ; That is the excellent Sophia 2 DVI upgrade. Amazing video quality, different configurable resolutions, U1MB had a plugin for it which can set said resolutions on the fly in bios). 

 

Sophia 2 supports rgb among other things:

 

https://thebrewingacademy.com/products/sophia-2-dvi-output-gtia-replacement

 

Waiting list registration is here on AtariAge. (100+ people in the queue and many want multiple units so I suspect the waiting time will be very long). 

 

Finally, you won't need to install the 64k SRAM momory module in you 800XL as it already has the base 64k ram U1MB requires. Just out of interest the module doesn't just give an A8 a modern replacement 64k. It also replaces the functions of a few other ICs on the board which are prone to failure, (eg the delay line chip which is present on stock 600XL and 800XL A8's). I also believe the module is required when installing the Rapidus accelerator board upgrade. 

 

My advice would certainly be not to undertake a ton of upgrades at once. Especially if you are new to the A8. It could be a nightmare to diagnose things should you (almost inevitably) come across any issues. 

 

As I say if the 800XL is socketed that will make things a lot easier in many respects. 

 

 

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[+Larry]

Go slow is really good advice.  A lot of people have regrets later on by spending a bunch of money only to lose interest after the novelty wears off.  Hope you don't, but it happens.  I'd get a good joystick, play some games, and see how things go.  Then if you're still eager to upgrade, start with a Side 3.1 cartridge (if you can get one) and an Ultimate 1MB. I personally prefer the AVG Cart, but having the U1MB + Side3.x has a few advantages.  I'm in the minority, but I don't find much benefit to having a FujiNet.  I also prefer APE (using Windows) over other SIO options.  Lots of different ways to spend your money!

[reifsnyderb]

For my Atari's, I upgrade the S-Video so as to not have to deal with RF connections.  (Added on the 600XL, fixed on the 800XL and 130XE.)  With the exception of my original 800XL, I upgrade the OS and BASIC.  Any memory upgrades are via the ECI, PBI, or internal slots (i.e.  With my 800's.).  The memory upgrades I made myself (and sell them), so I am eating my own dog food, so to speak.   🙂

 

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by reifsnyderb

[Shift838]

12 hours ago, reifsnyderb said:

For my Atari's, I upgrade the S-Video so as to not have to deal with RF connections.  (Added on the 600XL, fixed on the 800XL and 130XE.)  With the exception of my original 800XL, I upgrade the OS and BASIC.  Any memory upgrades are via the ECI, PBI, or internal slots (i.e.  With my 800's.).  The memory upgrades I made myself (and sell them), so I am eating my own dog food, so to speak.   🙂

 

 

what memory upgrades do you sell?

[reifsnyderb]

1 hour ago, Shift838 said:

what memory upgrades do you sell?

I memory have cards and boards for the Atari 400, 800, 600XL, and 800XL.  The XL's have PBI upgrades that plug into the PBI port in the back.  The 400's and 800's have cards.  The XL's have 64k and 320k boards while the 400's and 800's have 48k, 1056k, and 4,128k boards.  I have more info at http://www.5cfab.com

 

[Shift838]

i have recieved:

 

• SIDE3.1
• FujiNet
• U1MB

I have installed the U1MB and it works and I can get in and out of the bios menu.

 

I have dropped a few files on a SD card (FAT32) for the SIDE 3.1 but I cannot get the loader to launch.  I have followed the directions from the manual and even when I enter 'CAR' I get an error that states 'Not Present'

 

Am I supposed to do anything else that I am missing?

 

 

[Beeblebrox]

@Shift838 A few questions

 

Which firmware have you got installed on the U1MB?  I presume the modern FJC one:

 

Where the latest is here: https://atari8.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/U1MB_Firmware_4.20_240123.zip

 

or the original one?

 

****

If you have the new firmware from FJC have you flashed the plugin to use the SIDE3 cart?

 

To use the SIDE3 with U1MB you need to flash the plugin for it.

 

Same as if you wanted to use a SIDE2 cart with U1MB, you flash the plugin for it.

 

So see here as an example:

 

Under plugin there has been flashed a VBS2STCO combo - which stands for VBXE, SIDE2,STEREO, and Covox hardware support (VB-S2-ST-CO)

 

In order to know how to flash plugins, etc etc have you been to FJC's website to read the manual entries relating to it?

https://atari8.co.uk/firmware/ultimate-1mb/

 

There are various guides and links to videos there as well.

 

You flash plugins using Uflash.xex with the firmware.atr mounted as a drive.

 

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[Shift838]

i thought I was buying the FJC version from The Brewing Academy, but it looks like it shipped with the original.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Shift838

[Beeblebrox]

9 minutes ago, Shift838 said:

i thought I was buying the FJC version from The Brewing Academy, but it looks like it shipped with the original.

So you have this?

 

Also btw once you flash the FJC firmware you'll need to enable the PBI bios and HDD in the bios settings. 

 

Do you have an SIO2PC by any chance?

 

Also watch this:

 

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[Shift838]

no SIO2PC, i have a FujiNet, but have not set it up at all yet.

 

i am sure I can flash it, but i need to get my SIDE 3.1 working.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Shift838

[Beeblebrox]

10 minutes ago, Shift838 said:

no SIO2PC, i have a FujiNet, but have not set it up at all yet.

Sure. So if you have the old Candle Bios:

 

....Watch the video I linked to above. It'll give you some flashing options.

 

When flashing just reference the manual also. Between the two it should become clear.

 

I couldn't comment re the Fujinet, (EDIT: Although I believe you can flash U1MB off Fujinet)

 

Most important thing after you have the new firmware clashed to U1MB is to flash the plugin for SIDE3, and endable PBI bios and HDD in the new bios menu (just two easy menu toggles).

 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[Shift838]

You can flash it with a Fujinet..

 

I have my U1MB now flashed with the FJC firmware.

 

I have a few more upgrades to do, of course doing them one by one and testing after each one.  Next on the list is the UGV upgrade.

[magnusfalkirk]

It's interesting that your U1MB from the Brewing Academy came with the Candle firmware when they claim on the website, in the listing about the Ultimate 1MB, that it comes with the FJC firmware:

 

https://thebrewingacademy.com/products/ultimate-1mb-upgrade-lotharek-jon-fjc-halliday-candle?_pos=1&_sid=3a23ffc7f&_ss=r

 

That was what made me decide to buy the U1MB from them today. I hope it really does come with the FJC firmware, but it's nice to see that if it does come with the Candle firmware that it can be flashed easily enough to the FJC version.

[Beeblebrox]

@Shift838 glad you got it sorted. Presumably also you flashed the side3 plug in and enabled pbi bios and hdd too, and side3 is now working? 

 

UGV is great. Especially when installed in an XE as stock XE outputs aren't generally that good. 

 

Check out:

https://forums.atariage.com/topic/346287-ugv-installed-in-my-130xe-great-display-output-quality/

 

The stock 600XL output especially when chroma is hooked up, c109 is removed, and you have an svideo cables, is excellent. UGV will give you better and of course it has it's main purpose (removing the overscan),  but thought I'd mention it. I am always impressed with the 600XL in that respect. Atari really got it right there. 

 

One thing. It's quite tight in terms of space in the 600XL. The UGV board goes into the gtia, with then the gtia piggybacking it. Since the gtia is at the bottom left of the PCB you might want to check clearances with the keyboard and casing closing as these stack up. 

 

 

[Beeblebrox]

4 hours ago, magnusfalkirk said:

It's interesting that your U1MB from the Brewing Academy came with the Candle firmware when they claim on the website, in the listing about the Ultimate 1MB, that it comes with the FJC firmware:

 

https://thebrewingacademy.com/products/ultimate-1mb-upgrade-lotharek-jon-fjc-halliday-candle?_pos=1&_sid=3a23ffc7f&_ss=r

 

That was what made me decide to buy the U1MB from them today. I hope it really does come with the FJC firmware, but it's nice to see that if it does come with the Candle firmware that it can be flashed easily enough to the FJC version.

@magnusfalkirkIf there were two options of u1mb on the brewery academy and you paid extra for the preflashed fjc firmware version... and got the older one... just ask them to refund the difference. You can then flash it yourself. Providing you have the means to mount the large firmware.atr to do so, (see video I posted earlier), it's pretty easy. 

 

@Shift838same... If you paid extra just ask for a refund. I am sure it was an innocent mistake in their part. 

 

Funnily enough I've bought an incognito recently (the cheaper one with candle firmware as I always flash the fjc firmware myself and directly pay fjc the royalty fee to ensure he gets it all). I am in the UK. I was expecting the JED to to be the latest one flashed. (Released last month). It wasn't so I had to flash the Jed using my Xilinx programmer as well as then flashed the new bios. Former is a bit of a pain as the software is very picky with Windows and the cables setup a pain). 

 

Anyways hopefully the UK reseller will start to include the latest Jed with the incognito boards before they ship em out. 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[magnusfalkirk]

7 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

@magnusfalkirkIf there were two options of u1mb on the brewery academy and you paid extra for the preflashed fjc firmware version... and got the older one... just ask them to refund the difference. You can then flash it yourself. Providing you have the means to mount the large firmware.atr to do so, (see video I posted earlier), it's pretty easy. 

 

@Shift838same... If you paid extra just ask for a refund. I am sure it was an innocent mistake in their part. 

 

Funnily enough I've bought an incognito recently (the cheaper one with candle firmware as I always flash the fjc firmware myself and directly pay fjc the royalty fee to ensure he gets it all). I am in the UK. I was expecting the JED to to be the latest one flashed. (Released last month). It wasn't so I had to flash the Jed using my Xilinx programmer as well as then flashed the new bios. Former is a bit of a pain as the software is very picky with Windows and the cables setup a pain). 

 

Anyways hopefully the UK reseller will start to include the latest Jed with the incognito boards before they ship em out. 

 

 

@Beeblebrox there is only one price on the Brewing Academy's website for the U1MB and they say, on that page, that they only sell the U1MB with the FlashJazzCat firmware. So it makes me wonder why @Shift838 ended up with one that had the older firmware. Believe me if I end up with the older firmware I'll be asking them why the page says one thing and I got something else.

[Shift838]

12 hours ago, magnusfalkirk said:

It's interesting that your U1MB from the Brewing Academy came with the Candle firmware when they claim on the website, in the listing about the Ultimate 1MB, that it comes with the FJC firmware:

 

https://thebrewingacademy.com/products/ultimate-1mb-upgrade-lotharek-jon-fjc-halliday-candle?_pos=1&_sid=3a23ffc7f&_ss=r

 

That was what made me decide to buy the U1MB from them today. I hope it really does come with the FJC firmware, but it's nice to see that if it does come with the Candle firmware that it can be flashed easily enough to the FJC version.

I spoke with Marlin from TBA, it was a mistake that it was shipped with the Candle firmware.  I have ordered quite a few things from TBA and never had an issue.  TBA is always helpful with the many questions I have had since i'm new to Atari.

 

 

[Beeblebrox]

Just now, magnusfalkirk said:

@Beeblebrox there is only one price on the Brewing Academy's website for the U1MB and they say, on that page, that they only sell the U1MB with the FlashJazzCat firmware. So it makes me wonder why @Shift838 ended up with one that had the older firmware. Believe me if I end up with the older firmware I'll be asking them why the page says one thing and I got something else.

sure. Over hear the resellers give you a choice of the candle firmware or the FJC one, and the difference in price is considerable.  I assumed the Brewing academy offered the same.

[Beeblebrox]

1 minute ago, Shift838 said:

I spoke with Marlin from TBA, it was a mistake that it was shipped with the Candle firmware.  I have ordered quite a few things from TBA and never had an issue.  TBA is always helpful with the many questions I have had since i'm new to Atari.

 

 

Figured it was the case. Most vendors/resellers on the Atari 8-bit scene are fellow Atarians and/or geninue people. Mistakes happen.

[magnusfalkirk]

Just now, Shift838 said:

I spoke with Marlin from TBA, it was a mistake that it was shipped with the Candle firmware.  I have ordered quite a few things from TBA and never had an issue.  TBA is always helpful with the many questions I have had since i'm new to Atari.

 

 

Glad to hear that things got sorted out. Prior to ordering the U1MB yesterday I've ordered a couple other things from them and have been happy with what I got.