UGV installed in my 130XE - Great display output quality!

[Beeblebrox]

So glad I picked up this ready made UGV board from Ebay for a very reasonable price. Has breathed new life into my 130XE which had a very poor display output prior to installation.

 

More info from Mytek's page here which tell you all about what the board can do to save me detailing it all here: https://ataribits.weebly.com/ugv.html

 

A big thanks to @mytek for creating this excellent board. 

 

The host 130XE this has been installed in was one of the first A8's I'd tinkered with and the first machine I brought back from the dead in 2021 when I got back on the Atari 8-bit scene after many years.(More info here if interested).

 

As I was a novice it had a lot of work done to it, (ended up more or less fully socketing it in the process), and a week or so was spent trying to troubleshoot why it was dead, etc.

I've since learnt a lot and have fixed many other A8s. Still learning.

 

****

 

Anyway- to cut a long story short I managed to fix it in 2021 and also at the time perform various video tweaks to improve the poor XE video output on S-video with an LCD TV. This included the S.X.E mod tweak.

It helped  - but for one reason or another the video output wasn't great on this machine.

So this 130XE sat unused whilst I focused on other A8s.

 

Fast forward to 2023. I decided to revisit it recently and transplant an UM1B module I had from another machine into it.

 

I then decided - having read up on it and then coming across a ready made UGV board on Ebay - to check out the UGV to see if I could bring a great vidoe output to this machine.

 

So glad I did. Being in the UK - shiping a UAV board over isn't cost effective in my case. I have Sophia 2 and VBXE modules in other A8's which as everyone knows provide great display outputs - especially Sophia.

However for this XE I needed something cheap. So at a little over £30 including postage costs I couldn't pass it up.

 

It arrived the other day and yesterday I attempted to install it. I'd bought an mini S-video 4 pin PCB mounted jack in advance as well as I wanted to hook it up to that initially. Tried and after a few rookie mistakes and some advice I discarded the idea in favoute of disabling the XE's stock video circut and hooking the UGV's outputs to the existing Din5.

 

Honestly I am hugely impressed with this UGV board. Display output quality on my DIN5 to S-video cable when plugged into my LG Flatron M227WD is fantastic!

 

After you get your head around things and - in my case some silly mistakes - installation is relatively very simple.

 

It of course helps if your GTIA and 4050 is already socketed but other than that it is a few solder connections and if using the existing Din5 you'd never know the board was there. If you are installing in a 65/130/800 XE where the GTIA and 4050 need desoldering and socketing first then that is extra hassle. (Again my XE was fully socketed by me in 2021). I've gotten pretty good at desoldering and socketing chips these days.   

 

Also if installing in an XE then see page 43 onwards on the UAV instructions which tell you where to hook up Chroma, Luma, Composite and ground outputs. (It also shows you where these are for XL machines).

http://www.thebrewingacademy.net/UAV_manuals.zip

UAV is obvuosly a different board/product but the hookup points for the above are detailed and apply.

 

I've detailed these points here below for XE's for ease.

 

This particular UGV board was from this seller on Ebay in the UK and was quickly dispatched: 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266062340564

 

 

It came preassembled and flashed with the firmware and also with the video output cables  - each with single dupont connectors on both ends.

 

There are 2 x headers on the UGV.

 

J1 is the video outputs, (Chroma/Luma/Comp), and respective grounds.

The J2 connector is for flashing the firmware and also if you want to hook up a switch to toggle the Vgate functionality - one of the main reasons the board was created.

 

 

NOTE: I decide to make up corresponding male single Dupont connectors and wires to avoid cutting the ends off at one end to solder the hook up wires to the XE's PCB. (Also it was also for testing when I was attempting to hook upo the mini 4 pin S-video Din socket.) This isn't really necessary but is how it happened in my case.

 

The UGV board plugs into the GTIA socket and then the GTIA piggyback it.

 

NOTE: For the XE at least you needed a spare socket underneath the UGV to raise it up a few milimeters in order for it to clear the Antic chip above it. It just clears it.

 

I used a precision socket which fits perfectly with the UGV's pins:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/363814475287?var=633034036734

Always pays to have some lying around. 

 

You probably don't need one with the 600/800XLs given the GTIA chips location on thoise boards.

 

The Chroma, Luma and composite, (CVBS), outputs to the DIN5 can be hooked to 3 x ferrites on the XE's PCB.  (You lift the lower side of the ferrite to disconnect the XE's orignal vidoe circuit and connect the UGV's output to the upper end of these three on the XE's PCB. Then you ground the UGV's three ground wires to a recommended ground point near the DIN5, (upper end of R52), and finally remove the 4050 chip, (U20 on the XE's PCB), entirely.

 

As below (taken and slightly update from the UAV manual PDF I linked to earlier):

****

 

Powering up you instantly notice the difference to the XE's stock video, (and in my case especially given this particular XE's was pretty bad for whatever reason). 

Very happy. 

 

***

 

Few pics, (where the GTIA chip looks odd with black tape as it was one I fixed as it had broken legs; plus the cables have since been tidied up inside):

      

 

    

    

 

    

  

 

   

 

  

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[Mclaneinc]

Very nice...Not a lot you can do with all the various wires, very hard to make that look pretty, but it's working 100%, so, good install.

 

Very clean output...

[woj]

Which version of International Karate is that? Never seen this one...

[Beeblebrox]

39 minutes ago, woj said:

Which version of International Karate is that? Never seen this one...

@wojSome fellow forum Atarians and Mrfish have been working on some Rastacoverter images.

 

Check out:

 

 

Archer McClean - the original creator of IK sadly passed away recently and lots of work in this area has popped up. Might be a possiblity that some of the new backdrops might be worked into a revised edition which would be amazing. 

 

  

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[+mytek]

3 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

NOTE: For the XE at least you needed a spare socket underneath the UGV to raise it up a few milimeters in order for it to clear the Antic chip above it. It just clears it.

Just thought I'd add that this is only necessary when the Antic is socketed. Normally in a stock XE (either 65XE or 130XE) nothing is socketed, so if installing the UGV, you would normally only have to socket the GTIA chip, at which point the slight increase in elevation relative to Antic is enough to have everything clear. Also when done in this way, the original RF shielding will still work with no chance of anything getting shorted out

 

BTW, your LG Flatron M227WD monitor has very nicely saturated colors 👍

[Beeblebrox]

@mytek  You are right of course. Yes my Antic is indeed socketed. 

 

The LG Digital TV/monitor is a great all rounder with many inputs and is perfect for all my Atari hardware. Let's me down a little bit when connected to my Windows laptop compared with a dedicated monitor but desk space is tight so I compromise and use it for everything.

 

Thanks again - definitely getting another UGV unit. 

[Vyvyan B.]

Can these be purchased in the US? Shipping is nearly forty pounds from the UK eBay seller 🤬

[+mytek]

22 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

Thanks again - definitely getting another UGV unit. 

Yeah I just saw the sellers newest listing, with 3 boards available (just typed: Atari UGV in eBay's search box).

 

For people that want a standard S-Video jack, it would be even nicer if the seller also sold this breakout board for that...

 

UGV to S-Video Mini-DIN4 Interface Board

 

 

Although for the DIY person the bare board is also listed at OSH Park. With you getting 3 boards for $3.75 (£3.11) which includes international shipping.

 

BUY LINK

 

16 minutes ago, Vyvyan B. said:

Can these be purchased in the US? Shipping is nearly forty pounds from the UK eBay seller 🤬

If these get popular enough perhaps @MacRorie at TBA can be persuaded to sell them over here in the states.

[deffroe]

Well, I've been doing this very upgrade myself today and going to post asking for help as my display was in B&W.  Saw beeblebrox say about removing 4050 which I hadn't.  Still B&W but slightly worse with it removed.  

I'd cheated a bit with the ground wires so added the other 2 😳 and still black and white.

Sat here trying to workout how to link a name to a msg rather quote the whole msg and the screen has just popped into colour!!

[deffroe]

And I'm back to black and white.😒

[Beeblebrox]

@deffroe  Sounds like potentially a bad connection. Can you confirm what Atari you are installing this in as I assume it's an XE?

 

Also what cable are you using to connect to your display?

 

What display are you using?

 

One thing - did you have a reliable colour output before you installed the UGV (using the cable you are using currently)?  If you hadn't had that short period of colour output and you are installing in a stock 800XL and using S-video I may have thought it was simply that you don't have chroma hooked up in the machine in the first place. I do this with any stock 800XL's as they don't come with chroma hooked up from the factory in the 80s.

 

Pop up a few photos of the install if you like. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[chevymad]

Nice looking display. I have an 800xl that has always had terrible video. Started with the various on board fixes, then I think there was a board made by KJMan, and then a UAV which is acceptable but nowhere near your quality. My final fix was with a sophia which I absolutely love.  I've got lots of Mytek's designs, good to see this is yet another great one. 

[deffroe]

Its in a 130xe connecting to a LG24ms53v through composite.

I've left the ferrites in place, just lifting top leg and soldering wires to those empty pads.

 

[Beeblebrox]

I have Sophia 2 in my 600XL and it is gorgeous. It's great Simius is now in a position to create some new batches after the massive long running delays as a result of the global chip shortage.

 

I couldn't rightly say about UAV compared with UGV is better or worse as I no longer have a UAV in an A8. As mentioned the issue I have with sourcing UAV's is just cost as I am in the UK and shipping/import fees from the US is very high.

 

UGV has the overscan elimination (the main reason for Mytek creating it) but also the HQ Video Driver Circuit. I maily got the UGV for the latter.

 

Incidentally, (and you probably know this all already) but stock 800XL's displays can be improved by a few simple tweaks. It depends on what display you are using and which cable used as well. Composite will nearly always be poor compared to S-video.

 

So if you are displaying on a modern LCD screen with S-video you will usually get interferance from the composite signal. There is a tweak mod I do to all my stock 800XL's (including XLFs here) that eliminates said interferance. 

 

There is also a cap on some 800XL's you can lift which will sharpen up the image. (see here - it involves lifting C56)

 

Yup - Mytek's tech is fantastic.

 

 

[Beeblebrox]

11 minutes ago, deffroe said:

Its in a 130xe connecting to a LG24ms53v through composite.

I've left the ferrites in place, just lifting top leg and soldering wires to those empty pads.

 

Hmm so the only difference  - aside my setup using an S-video cable - is that as per the instructions I lifted the ferrites lower leg - disconnecting it from the pcb there - then soldering the Chroma/Luma and composite to the top of the ferrites which were still soldered to the PCB by their respective upper legs. The the three ground wires are connected to the same ground point. (Grounding is very important so double check you have grounding for all three).

 

The way you did it shouldn't make a difference as the ferrites are still disconnected from the circuit.

 

This is mine:

 

 

Edit: So as per my initial question:

 

Did you have a reliable colour output before you installed the UGV (using the cable you are using currently)? 

 

Also worth checking the colour trim pot is still ok.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[chevymad]

6 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

I have Sophia 2 in my 600XL and it is gorgeous. It's great Simius is now in a position to create some new batches after the massive long running delays as a result of the global chip shortage.

 

I couldn't rightly say about UAV compared with UGV is better or worse as I no longer have a UAV in an A8. As mentioned the issue I have with sourcing UAV's is just cost as I am in the UK and shipping/import fees from the US is very high.

 

UGV has the overscan elimination (the main reason for Mytek creating it) but also the HQ Video Driver Circuit. I maily got the UGV for the latter.

 

Incidentally, (and you probably know this all already) but stock 800XL's displays can be improved by a few simple tweaks. It depends on what display you are using and which cable used as well. Composite will nearly always be poor compared to S-video.

 

So if you are displaying on a modern LCD screen with S-video you will usually get interferance from the composite signal. There is a tweak mod I do to all my stock 800XL's (including XLFs here) that eliminates said interferance. 

 

There is also a cap on some 800XL's you can lift which will sharpen up the image. (see here - it involves lifting C56)

 

Yup - Mytek's tech is fantastic.

 

 

Ya I did all those tweeks. Several displays including crt. Even with the rf mod removed still crap.. still some lines with UAV even. Never have used composite except as a test. Sophia fixed it so I'm happy. But I'm just commiserating with having a machine that inexplicably has crap video while like machines are fine.

[Beeblebrox]

1 minute ago, chevymad said:

Ya I did all those tweeks. Several displays including crt. Even with the rf mod removed still crap.. still some lines with UAV even. Never have used composite except as a test. Sophia fixed it so I'm happy. But I'm just commiserating with having a machine that inexplicably has crap video while like machines are fine.

Sure. Yeah - I couldn't really explain why this 130XE was giving out such poor images but glad the relatively cheap and simple to install UGV has solved it.

 

Generally all XE's display outputs I've had aren't great when compared to XLs. The 600XL is by far the best IMHO.

 

 

[deffroe]

7 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

Hmm so the only difference  - aside my setup using an S-video cable - is that as per the instructions I lifted the ferrites lower leg - disconnecting it from the pcb there - then soldering the Chroma/Luma and composite to the top of the ferrites which were still soldered to the PCB by their respective upper legs. The the three ground wires are connected to the same ground point. (Grounding is very important so double check you have grounding for all three).

 

The way you did it shouldn't make a difference as the ferrites are still disconnected from the circuit.

 

This is mine:

 

 

Edit: So as per my initial question:

 

Did you have a reliable colour output before you installed the UGV (using the cable you are using currently)? 

 

Also worth checking the colour trim pot is still ok.

Yes, the cable I use is the same one I use for my 800XL's too.

[Mclaneinc]

The solder looks rather mat, is it that lead free cr*p...Just wondered if it was a dry joint in that pic.. (top left red wire..)

[deffroe]

I've used 60/40 leaded solder. Where I've lifted the ferrite legs I've soldered wires on the underside of board, but it's worth going back over solder joints just in case.

[_The Doctor__]

The 4050 is used for other things in the Atari not just what you think it's for, I don't know how many times I have had to put them back in for people later on....

[NISMOPC]

As stated above. Are there any sellers in the USA for these?

Side note: My go to monitor is the Dell 2007FP 20.1 Inch Ultrasharp 1600x1200 Flat Panel Monitor. Has USB power port, VGA port, DVI-D port, S-Video port and Composite connection AND maintains a 4:3 aspect ratio screen. Currently own three of them all used. Two purchased at different times from Facebook Marketplace and another from Ebay.

Also own a 2007WFP since I got it super cheap. Same as above, but 16:9 ratio.

 

[Beeblebrox]

33 minutes ago, NISMOPC said:

As stated above. Are there any sellers in the USA for these?

Side note: My go to monitor is the Dell 2007FP 20.1 Inch Ultrasharp 1600x1200 Flat Panel Monitor. Has USB power port, VGA port, DVI-D port, S-Video port and Composite connection AND maintains a 4:3 aspect ratio screen. Currently own three of them all used. Two purchased at different times from Facebook Marketplace and another from Ebay.

Also own a 2007WFP since I got it super cheap. Same as above, but 16:9 ratio.

 

As per Mytek's reply earlier in this thread you can order the UGV boards very cheaply and populate them with the components yourself. See further up the thread. I don't know of any US based sellers selling fully assembled UGV boards. But then I only happened to come across the UK seller I bought mine from by chance. 

 

Ah nice... I used to own the dell 2007fp. Nice monitor. Unfortunately in the UK with PAL A8's it doesn't work on the inputs. (S-video, composite, etc). It can't pick up on the signal. Whereas they work with NTSC A8's because of the higher signal rate. 

 

I only got it to work on my PAL setup at the time with an upscaler, and series of adapters in the end

 

Sold it and bought my current go to display LG Flatron M227WD which as mentioned works off my various cables with my A8's. 

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[Beeblebrox]

@deffroe  BTW just checking.... Did you check that all the 6 x J1 dupont headers have continuity to their respective signal connections using a multimeter?

 

It's just a thought but single dupont connectors can be quite loose when mounted on headers. Also it could be the dupont single header wasn't crimped properly by the seller and it isn't making proper contact with the wire. That's happened to me before. 

 

If perhaps chroma isn't making a proper connection it could account for the black and white output and brief colour espisode. Might be worth focusing on that area. 

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[deffroe]

After Mclaneinc mentioned about cold joints I reflowed, just in case.  The dupont cable I made and rechecked for continuity(once I added the 2 gounds I missed) from UGV pins to points on the motherboard.  I've tried a couple different GTIA's as well but still no joy.