ABBUC software contest 2023

[+Fred_M]

On 10/24/2023 at 1:34 PM, Fred_M said:

There will be a limited number available. If there are any left after the Abbuc meeting, they will be sold on Vinted or Ebay.

 

 

There are 3 copies of Rotor II left. People in The Netherlands, Belgium, France, Spain, Portugal and Italy can buy 1 of them at Vinted: https://www.vinted.nl/items/3778201627-rotor-ii-for-atari-xlxe-computers

 

Price is 18 Euros excl. shipping (which is cheap on Vinted).

 

[matosimi]

On 11/18/2023 at 2:18 AM, CharlieChaplin said:

Wanted A8 tools on the PC:

- a JPG and/or GIF and/or PNG and/or TIF and/or BMP converter on the PC, that converts pictures into Gr. 10 + 11 pictures for the A8; requirements: the destination format should be Gr. 10 + 11 with a resolution of 160x200 or 160x240 pixels and 8x16 = 128 colors, where Gr. 10 provides the well-known GTIA pixel-shifting (like in HIP, RIP and TIP modes) for higher resolution (160 instead of 80 pixels) and gives 8 luminances, while Gr. 11 provides 16 colours and one (base?) luminance. 

 

something like this?

[popmilo]

On 11/17/2023 at 5:02 PM, freetz said:

If ABBUC wants to promote development of tools etc. it could offer something like a "bounty". Members could for example decide what kind of tools they could really need each year and then vote on the submissions which one did it best. That way, it would at least be clear that the tools would really hit the nerve of voters, even though it may still just be a minority that uses them.

 

Think you got the point there. That would be something like more focused variant of patreon/itch kind of support.

 

Although it's hard to measure what people want... Very often what people say they want and what they are satisfied with in the end are different things

 

[freetz]

It could be done in a two-stage way:

1. ABBUC could hold an online-poll (months before the contest) where members can submit suggestions and also vote for the tools they want to see on the Atari (I'm actually not sure if tools that are for the Atari but do not run on the Atari are currently allowed, but I guess they should be). The bounties could be distributed according to popularity.

2. Once entries are submitted, the club members could vote which submission is the best. Prize money could be distributed in a similar way as in the current contest, so that it doesn't create a (dis-)advantage to the current system for people who don't come out first.

 

As a result, we would have more tools that people want, and users could still vote on which tool has solved the task in the best possible way.

All this depends on the question whether there is still demand/need for tools running on the Atari. As CharlieChaplin said, there are many variations of the same kind of tool available, and while that is also true for games (uncountable horizontal scrolling shoot'em'ups), the variation in graphics and sound etc. is probably a greater motivation than what is possible with tools...

[Mathy]

Hello guys

 

- If users would choose what kind of utilities they want, they might not have said something like "WozMon".

- If users would choose what kind of utilities they want, they might want to have a say in all the features it should have.

- If users would choose what kind of utilities they want, programmers might not be interested in programming those kind of utilities and not program utilities.

 

Let the programmer decide which utilities (s)he wants to write.  We can give suggestions, but the programmer decides what to do with those.  A programmer that doesn't like what (s)he's writing, will probably not improve the software (s)he wrote.

 

The majority of people will (almost) never rate a utility more than a game.  We have to accept that.  Unless we find a way to re-program people.  Which might open Pandora's box...

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

 

 

[+CharlieChaplin]

On 11/19/2023 at 11:48 PM, matosimi said:

something like this?

 

Almost. TIP combines Gr. 9 + 10 +11 and has a max. resolution of 160x120 pixels.

I want only Gr. 10 (luminances) with GTIA pixel-shifting combined with Gr. 11 (colors) for 160x240 pixels resolution and 8x16 = 128 colors.

 

Afaik, HIP/RIP does it like this:

Gr. 8

Gr. 10

Gr. 8

Gr. 9

Gr. 8

Gr. 10

Gr. 8

Gr. 9

The GTIA pixel-shifting happens when changing from Gr. 8 to Gr. 10.

 

Now my proposal would look like this:

Gr. 8

Gr. 10

Gr. 8

Gr. 11

Gr. 8

Gr. 10

Gr. 8

Gr. 11

As said before, GTIA pixel shifting for higher (160x) resolution in Gr. 10, but Gr. 10 with lumas and Gr. 11 with colors.

Gr. 10 lumas are fixed (8 lumas: 0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14), but Gr. 11 also gives one luma, this could be the base luma (one could choose between 0, 2, for dark luma or 4, 6, 8 for medium luma or 10, 12, 14 for bright luma; personally I think that Gr. 11 lumas 0-10 would be best).

 

Maybe you could create a converter similar to your TIP converter ?

 

Gr. 9 + 11: 256 colors, 80x96 or up to 80x120 pixels resolution

TIP: 256 colors, 160x96 or up to 160x120 pixels resolution

Gr. 10+11: could be 128 colors, 160x192 or up to 160x240 pixels resolution

 

[+CharlieChaplin]

14 hours ago, freetz said:

It could be done in a two-stage way:

1. ABBUC could hold an online-poll (months before the contest) where members can submit suggestions and also vote for the tools they want to see on the Atari (I'm actually not sure if tools that are for the Atari but do not run on the Atari are currently allowed, but I guess they should be). The bounties could be distributed according to popularity.

2. Once entries are submitted, the club members could vote which submission is the best. Prize money could be distributed in a similar way as in the current contest, so that it doesn't create a (dis-)advantage to the current system for people who don't come out first.

 

As a result, we would have more tools that people want, and users could still vote on which tool has solved the task in the best possible way.

All this depends on the question whether there is still demand/need for tools running on the Atari. As CharlieChaplin said, there are many variations of the same kind of tool available, and while that is also true for games (uncountable horizontal scrolling shoot'em'ups), the variation in graphics and sound etc. is probably a greater motivation than what is possible with tools...

 

We are already discussing this internally - and sooner or later something will be made public... please wait !

(Think you can read something about this in magazine 155 or 156.)

 

[freetz]

3 hours ago, Mathy said:

- If users would choose what kind of utilities they want, they might not have said something like "WozMon".

- If users would choose what kind of utilities they want, they might want to have a say in all the features it should have.

- If users would choose what kind of utilities they want, programmers might not be interested in programming those kind of utilities and not program utilities.

 

Let the programmer decide which utilities (s)he wants to write.  We can give suggestions, but the programmer decides what to do with those.  A programmer that doesn't like what (s)he's writing, will probably not improve the software (s)he wrote.

 

The majority of people will (almost) never rate a utility more than a game.  We have to accept that.

Well, I'm perfectly fine if people don't want something like WozMon, and of course it's me who decides what I want to write. But I actually (also) like to program stuff that others find useful. I sometimes even participate in Code Golf competitions which have absolutely no use at all, just for the fun of it. So the reasons why people do code are manifold, but if I had to choose, most of the time I'd prefer to code something that others enjoy, rather than something that only I enjoy. For the simple reason that coding something that others want/need might keep them using their Atari. And that's what matters most to me.

And by doing that, I don't aim for the Top 3 or something like that. I also often rate some games higher than some utilities. But usually not all games higher than all utilities.

 

But it's great to read that ABBUC is discussing this issue. And if there is need/demand for something that I can contribute, I'm happy to do so.

[+Fred_M]

I agree wholeheartedly with @Mathy especially when a voting system with money prizes is used. Polling first for any utility or game will influence the voters. Personally I think that the biggest reward of the Abbuc contests is the creation of new software for our little computer and (in a perfect world) it does not matter how much votes an entry gets or how big the prize money for that entry is.

 

But I like the idea in another way. Let's do this outside the contests. Abbuc can make a poll and and offer some financial compensation to one (or more) programmers who are willing to create an utlity that received the highest ranking in the poll.

Edited November 23, 2023 by Fred_M

[Mathy]

Hello Frederick

 

On 11/21/2023 at 5:13 AM, freetz said:

Well, I'm perfectly fine if people don't want something like WozMon...

 

That's not what I meant.  But, many years after Steve Wozniak created the original WozMon, that other Apple related Steve created a device nobody asked for, before it became a reality.  Or do you know somebody who asked for a device that combines a flashlight, a navigation device, a "jukebox", a computer, a dictation device and a phone, among probably a lot of other things?  With no "real" keyboard?  But after he/his company created it, it "kinda" took off.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

[TheRaven81]

Is there a public place to download all the entries of the contest that's not locked behind a "Members Only" door?

[popmilo]

21 hours ago, TheRaven81 said:

Is there a public place to download all the entries of the contest that's not locked behind a "Members Only" door?

This topic

 

ps. Really I don't know any other place.. Just go back couple pages and you'll find links....

 

[+Stephen]

23 hours ago, TheRaven81 said:

Is there a public place to download all the entries of the contest that's not locked behind a "Members Only" door?

Try to remember, that the "members only" door pays for the prize money, does multiple print magazines per year, etc.

[TheRaven81]

9 hours ago, Stephen said:

Try to remember, that the "members only" door pays for the prize money, does multiple print magazines per year, etc.

I spent a lot of time trying to word this so I wouldn't sound like a jerk or come off sounding rude, because I don't want to do that at all. So here goes:

 

As cool as that is, I did not know that. I've only just recently found out that this contest was even a thing. Despite that, I can't justify paying for it - even if it's only once a year - when all I want are the contest downloads, which I can not guarantee will work on my NTSC machine. A lot of the EU developers make their games in PAL, I haven't found a PAL game yet that has worked without issues. 

 

Anyways, I went through the thread as popmilo suggested and just downloaded what I found. I have much respect for the people who are keeping such an old platform still alive and kicking.  

[+DjayBee]

2 hours ago, TheRaven81 said:

Despite that, I can't justify paying for it - even if it's only once a year - when all I want are the contest downloads

To add to Popmilo's post:

The "members only" door applies only to the time before the prices are awarded. ABBUC reserves exclusivity for this time (among other things because the price money comes from the club).

 

Afterwards every author is free to do with his software whatever he wants. Most of them publish the software here on AA or give links to GitHub etc.

[popmilo]

It would be nice to have one place to go to with archives of old releases sorted by year etc...

 

Guess this is closest to that and kept up to date:

 

 

Edited December 16, 2023 by popmilo

[Mr Robot]

On 12/16/2023 at 12:47 AM, popmilo said:

It would be nice to have one place to go to with archives of old releases sorted by year etc...

 

Guess this is closest to that and kept up to date:

 

You can search for the year at fandals site, just put the year in the search box and click on "in details". Don't hit return as it searches the name by default. 

 

I try to keep up to date with the current year's releases on my TNFS server, once the year is over I trim that down to just my favorite games and merge it with the other from the current decade. 

 

 

[Marius]

On 11/18/2023 at 5:30 PM, CharlieChaplin said:

b) nowadays there are cross-compilers, emulators and whatnot on the PC, so everything one can do directly on the A8, one can also do on the PC for the A8, with the big advantage, there is more memory available, there is more speed available and simply more overall power. New demos and games (and often also tools/applications) for the A8 are rarely programmed on the A8 nowadays, most of the time they were/are programmed on the PC. Why should I use a font creator or a monitor program with several limitations on the A8, when there are much better and more powerful tools on the PC ? Some of them are already built-in into A8 emulators (e.g. Altirra).

This is -of course- 100% true. I have lots of respect for the people who create this stuff for PC/Mac or whatever other platform. Everything that is convenient for people to write a8 software is more than welcome. But to answer your question: I never use these tools, because when it comes to the atari 8bit hobby, I love using the atari 8bit.  The only thing I use every now and then is an emulator. I prefer doing all a8 related things on the real thing. For me it is all about the experience, and having a great time. Reaching goals is less important here for me. So I code in Mac/65, Synassembler or Turbo Basic, I write my txt's in the Last Word, I design my fonts and gfx with different tools, I pack my objects with SuperPacker, I compose and arrange music with the Chaos Music Composer. I debug using Turbo Freezer or Black Box. Sure it is not as convenient as on a modern PC, and my coding skills are also rather limited... but it is so much more fun: due to this, when I am active with my a8 hobby, at least I won't have to sit behind the pc or mac AGAIN. 

 

I would most certainly appreciate newer and better tools for a8. But I completely understand that the audience filled with people like me is smaller than the game audience. I love the Midi interface  that I bought from Pancio. I would love to see more tools/programs for that hardware for instance. And of course I would LOVE to see a RMT-compatible editor on a8, so that I could start using RMT on the "real thing"... 

 

Please do understand me right. I have NOTHING against those cross-platform tools. In fact, I am grateful for their existance. Thanks to these tools, I can use native a8 tools that other people created on a cross-assembler or whatever. I know that quality software on a8 wouldn't have been developed without these powerful tools. So yes, I am very happy that they exist. But that these tools simply made the development of native a8 tools, unneeded; no.... definitely not.

 

 

[+DjayBee]

The rules for 2024 are now online at https://abbuc.de/asc.

[+CharlieChaplin]

@Albert: This topic can be un-pinned now...

[HighKali]

On 21/11/2023 at 02:07, CharlieChaplin said:

 

Ne stiamo già discutendo internamente e prima o poi qualcosa verrà reso pubblico... aspettate!

(Pensa di poter leggere qualcosa a riguardo nella rivista 155 o 156.)

 

 

[HighKali]

Guten Morgen allerseits! Da ich keine Antworten von CharlieChaplin erhalte... könnte ich weitere Informationen zur Teilnahme am ABBUC-Wettbewerb haben? Ich danke im Voraus allen, die mir eine Antwort geben würden

[Beeblebrox]

19 minutes ago, HighKali said:

Guten Morgen allerseits! Da ich keine Antworten von CharlieChaplin erhalte... könnte ich weitere Informationen zur Teilnahme am ABBUC-Wettbewerb haben? Ich danke im Voraus allen, die mir eine Antwort geben würden

Hi. Just translated it for ease:

 

"

Good morning everyone! Since I'm not receiving any responses from CharlieChaplin... may I have more information about entering the ABBUC competition? I would like to thank anyone in advance who would give me an answer"

So FYI the 2023 contest is obviously been and gone The 2024 compy is here: 

 

[+CharlieChaplin]

Well,

 

member HighKali who had just one post (back in April) here at AA wrote me a pm in italian language:

"Ciao Charlie,perdonami! Possiamo parlare gentilmente? " and then:

"CharlieChaplin perché non mi rispondi? Sei l'unica persona ancora viva che può parlarmi di mio papà"

 

Since I do not speak nor understand italian language I had to use Google  translate or DeepL to translate this into german:

"Hallo Charlie, vergib mir! Können wir freundlich sprechen?"  und dann:

"Charlie Chaplin, warum antwortest du mir nicht? Du bist die einzige noch lebende Person, die mir von meinem Vater erzählen kann"

or in english:

"CharlieChaplin, please forgive me! Can we talk kindly?" and then:

"CharlieChaplin, why don't you reply to me ? You are the only living person who could tell me something about my father."

 

This had nothing to do at all with the Abbuc software contest and I thought its some kind of spam, password fishing or something in that direction, so I did not reply. Writing to me in a foreign language that I do not understand (and have to translate first) and then wanting me to tell something about his/her father without mentioning his father's name or his own real name - would you reply to this ?

 

I did not reply and I still wonder what this all has to do with the Abbuc Software Contest.  I am sorry, but I don't want to be an emperor, errm, I am sorry, but I need more details or background information before I want to reply to such a pm. Furthermore this pm was repeated several times, thus I was quite sure it is just spam and if AA had a spam filter, I would have set it on that pm.

 

So, to make a long story short, HighKali, if there is some serious interest in a) the Abbuc Software contest, then let me know or b) you seriously want me to tell you something about your father, then please first of all, tell me who you are (your REAL NAME) and who your father was (again REAL NAME) !

 

[+Fred_M]

24 minutes ago, CharlieChaplin said:

Well,

 

member HighKali who had just one post (back in April) here at AA wrote me a pm in italian language:

"Ciao Charlie,perdonami! Possiamo parlare gentilmente? " and then:

"CharlieChaplin perché non mi rispondi? Sei l'unica persona ancora viva che può parlarmi di mio papà"

 

Since I do not speak nor understand italian language I had to use Google  translate or DeepL to translate this into german:

"Hallo Charlie, vergib mir! Können wir freundlich sprechen?"  und dann:

"Charlie Chaplin, warum antwortest du mir nicht? Du bist die einzige noch lebende Person, die mir von meinem Vater erzählen kann"

or in english:

"CharlieChaplin, please forgive me! Can we talk kindly?" and then:

"CharlieChaplin, why don't you reply to me ? You are the only living person who could tell me something about my father."

 

This had nothing to do at all with the Abbuc software contest and I thought its some kind of spam, password fishing or something in that direction, so I did not reply. Writing to me in a foreign language that I do not understand (and have to translate first) and then wanting me to tell something about his/her father without mentioning his father's name or his own real name - would you reply to this ?

 

I did not reply and I still wonder what this all has to do with the Abbuc Software Contest.  I am sorry, but I don't want to be an emperor, errm, I am sorry, but I need more details or background information before I want to reply to such a pm. Furthermore this pm was repeated several times, thus I was quite sure it is just spam and if AA had a spam filter, I would have set it on that pm.

 

So, to make a long story short, HighKali, if there is some serious interest in a) the Abbuc Software contest, then let me know or b) you seriously want me to tell you something about your father, then please first of all, tell me who you are (your REAL NAME) and who your father was (again REAL NAME) !

 

 

I had some contact with HighKali. He is looking for people who know the father of his wife. Without stating names here publicly, it is the former "contest leader" of the Abbuc Software Contest (a.o. in 2004).

 

Sadly I could not help him, I hope some of the older Abbuc members can.

.