Input needed on Tutor Pro System (Super Pro Tutorvision)

[+Psycho Stormtrooper- Rog]

Need some input on if the Intellivision community feels that the Super Pro Systems with Tutorvision boards (deemed to be Tutor Pro System's) should all be designated as Tutor Pro's.. regardless if they have the updated WbExec.

 Some of the rare Tutorvision boards that were put in random Super Pro systems have the Extended Rom (which is just like the prototype Tutorvision systems). The other Tutorvision boards in random Super Pro systems have the standard Rom that is in regular Super Pro Systems.

 Question is, should the ones that have the standard Rom (which cannot play physical Tutorvision software without manipulating the system) be considered an actual Tutor Pro system?

 

Please give us your thoughts.. (collectors, programmers, and techs)

 

For some referrence.. here are some archive Threads about the systems.

 

[+fdr4prez]

Super Duper Pro

 

Super Pro +

 

Tutorvision Lite

 

Almost-A-Tutorvision

 

Dopey Tutorvision

[+Psycho Stormtrooper- Rog]

3 minutes ago, fdr4prez said:

Super Duper Pro

 

Super Pro +

 

Tutorvision Lite

 

Almost-A-Tutorvision

 

Dopey Tutorvision

All jokes aside.. There is a real reason im trying to find a consensus. 

[+stupus]

To me the ones missing the 1 component would be the tutor pros.

The ones with everything are just flat out tutorvisions without the pretty shell. Which there is only 1 complete version of.

 

But also considering there are only 3 real tutorvision physical carts....this doesn't seem to matter a whole lot as unless you have 1 of those real carts all anyone else can do is play the roms from an lto cart on either type.

[mr_me]

I call them INTV88 boards.  Tutorwhatever should have a tutorvision exec.

[+the1hatman]

"Tudor-Pro" was my half-joking attempt to make a shorter name for the Super Pro systems with TudorVision boards in them. Use the term as you see fit 👍

[+Psycho Stormtrooper- Rog]

2 hours ago, the1hatman said:

"Tudor-Pro" was my half-joking attempt to make a shorter name for the Super Pro systems with TudorVision boards in them. Use the term as you see fit 👍

Its a good name... and easily defines it.

 

I do lean towards mr me though. It seems to make more sense to me that the Super Pro's with the full Tutorvision INTV88 boards in them (with WbExec) can be called Tutor Pro systems. I mean, they are a system variant of the original Super Pro system.

[Walter Ives]

On 4/20/2023 at 1:03 PM, Psycho Stormtrooper- Rog said:

regardless if they have the updated WbExec

    It's misleading to call it "the updated WbExec" because Valeski viewed the World Book product as a customized private-label offshoot, not an update to his main product line. Valeski was focused on selling cartridges to the substantial installed base and making new cartridges that depended on the updated features would have created a logistical nightmare. I'd call it "the customized private-label WBEXEC."

 

    WJI

[Walter Ives]

On 4/20/2023 at 1:03 PM, Psycho Stormtrooper- Rog said:

Need some input on if the Intellivision community feels that the Super Pro Systems with Tutorvision boards (deemed to be Tutor Pro System's) should all be designated as Tutor Pro's.. regardless if they have the updated WbExec.

 Some of the rare Tutorvision boards that were put in random Super Pro systems have the Extended Rom (which is just like the prototype Tutorvision systems). The other Tutorvision boards in random Super Pro systems have the standard Rom that is in regular Super Pro Systems.

 Question is, should the ones that have the standard Rom (which cannot play physical Tutorvision software without manipulating the system) be considered an actual Tutor Pro system?

 

Please give us your thoughts.. (collectors, programmers, and techs)

My thoughts:

No Super Pro System should be "deemed" a Tutor Pro System. Valeski didn't use that nomenclature back then—selling something labeled a Tutor-anything would have violated his agreement with World Book and screwed up his own branding—and it's misleading to adopt it in retrospect. Such retro-naming confuses the less-informed and scares the horses.

The INTV88 board exists because Valeski ran out of his inventory original chipsets and had to make a running change transition to the STIC 1A in order to continue shipping Super Pro master components. He based the system he proposed to World Book on the newer configuration because that's what was available at the time.

The World Book TutorVision with its WBEXEC and custom housing is a private label version of the Master Component akin to the Sears Super Video Arcade with the Sears EXEC and custom housing, the Sylvania Intellivision Master Component and the Tandyvision one. The most important difference is that the Sears, Sylvania and Radio Shack products made it to market and the World Book deal fell through. The World Book deal wasn't unique: there were other deals that fell through too. The Bandai relationship was more a distribution deal where the distributor's name was added to the Mattel Electronics branding.

Given that perspective, my view is

A Super Pro System with a conventional board (e.g.: Rev. X1) is a Super Pro System based on the GI chipset.

A Super Pro System with an INTV 1987 board is a Super Pro System based on the GI chipset, but with a CP1610A CPU.

A Super Pro System with an INTV 1988 board and the original EXEC isn't a Tutor-anything, it's a Super Pro System based on STIC 1A (as opposed to the original chipset). It has nothing to do with World Book.

A Super Pro System with an INTV 1988 board and a WBEXEC is a Super Pro System that happens to be TutorVision compatible. But it's still a Super Pro System, just like it says on the label, and shouldn't be retro-named, at least not by those that take the hobby seriously. That such systems exist at all is due to the fact that circumstances left Valeski with a stock of WBEXEC ROMs and he was a master at squeezing value out of whatever he had in inventory. Once that inventory had been exhausted there was no reason to continue to pay good money for the larger ROMs required. Had this been a Mattel Electronics effort those ROMs would have been junked.

A TutorVision is a master component in white and blue livery with the World Book logo, of which only the one or two prototypes are known to have survived.

So, in my view, retro-naming is to be avoided. Unless you're referring to the one or two surviving prototypes, the proper name for the unit is Super Pro System, just like it says on the label. Where relevant, use an added phrase like "Super Pro System with World Book EXEC," "TutorVision compatible Super Pro System" or even "Super Pro System/WBEXEC," even if it's clumsy, at least in writings accessible by newbies. For more technical purposes such as serial number data bases adopt an unambiguous nomenclature that reflects the internal labeling:

               Super Pro/X1
               Super Pro/INTV 1987
               Super Pro/INTV 1988/EXEC          OR Super Pro/STIC 1A/EXEC
               Super Pro/INTV 1988/WBEXEC   OR Super Pro/STIC 1A/WBEXEC

Passing along this remark because I thought it was apropos and funny, not because I necessarily agree with it: "I know it will be hard to give up the notion that he owns a TutorPro. But he's not a SEAL, either, and he didn't win the Medal of Honor."

On the other hand, you do own a unit that uses the STIC 1A and CP1610A, and it’s a main-line system too, not some private-label offshoot that was nipped in the bud. C'mon, how cool is that?

 

WJI

Edited April 25, 2023 by Walter Ives

[+Psycho Stormtrooper- Rog]

4 hours ago, Walter Ives said:

No Super Pro System should be "deemed" a Tutor Pro System. Valeski didn't use that nomenclature back then—selling something labeled a Tutor-anything would have violated his agreement with World Book and screwed up his own branding

I dont believe the Super Pro system with Tutorvision internals was ever called a Tutor Pro system in the intention of changing the name of the Super Pro component Walter. As far as i can tell it was just called that amongst collectors as a nickname to be easier to talk about and type. Tutor Pro (to me and some others) simply means a Super Pro case with Tutorvision internals. Its just a term. But i do agree that someone without knowledge of the Tutorvision & the history of Intellivision would be confused by the term.

 I also dont think anyone ever said they were sold as Tutorvision's back in the days of INTV. We understand that.

4 hours ago, Walter Ives said:

A Super Pro System with a conventional board (e.g.: Rev. X1) is a Super Pro System based on the GI chipset.

A Super Pro System with an INTV 1987 board is a Super Pro System based on the GI chipset, but with a CP1610A CPU.

A Super Pro System with an INTV 1988 board and the original EXEC isn't a Tutor-anything, it's a Super Pro System based on STIC 1A (as opposed to the original chipset). It has nothing to do with World Book.

I agree with your opinion on these points. Makes perfect sense.

 

4 hours ago, Walter Ives said:

A Super Pro System with an INTV 1988 board and a WBEXEC is a Super Pro System that happens to be TutorVision compatible. But it's still a Super Pro System, just like it says on the label, and shouldn't be retro-named, at least not by those that take the hobby seriously. That such systems exist at all is due to the fact that circumstances left Valeski with a stock of WBEXEC ROMs and he was a master at squeezing value out of whatever he had in inventory.

This is where my opinion differs. If all of the internal boards, chips, Roms are the same as the Tutorvision prototypes (and not the same as the majority of Super Pro Components produced), that would make it different regardless of the intention of Valeski. At the very least, it would be a variant of the Super Pro System.

 

4 hours ago, Walter Ives said:

Where relevant, use an added phrase like "Super Pro System with World Book EXEC," "TutorVision compatible Super Pro System" or even "Super Pro System/WBEXEC," even if it's clumsy, at least in writings accessible by newbies. For more technical purposes such as serial number data bases adopt an unambiguous nomenclature that reflects the internal labeling:

               Super Pro/X1
               Super Pro/INTV 1987
               Super Pro/INTV 1988/EXEC          OR Super Pro/STIC 1A/EXEC
               Super Pro/INTV 1988/WBEXEC   OR Super Pro/STIC 1A/WBEXEC

All good ideas.

Keep in mind, I believe the name "TutorPro" was originally mentioned as a joke (i think). It stuck because it was a shorter version of the more technical names given to the "Super Pro master component with 1988 board & STIC 1A with WBEXEC internals originally designed for World Book Tutorvision".

I dont believe any of the names given previously were to change anything or to suggest Valeski intended to release a different version of the Super Pro System.

 

Thanks for all of your input Walter.

As always, very interesting and informative.

[+DZ-Jay]

18 minutes ago, Psycho Stormtrooper- Rog said:

I dont believe the Super Pro system with Tutorvision internals was ever called a Tutor Pro system in the intention of changing the name of the Super Pro component Walter. As far as i can tell it was just called that amongst collectors as a nickname to be easier to talk about and type. Tutor Pro (to me and some others) simply means a Super Pro case with Tutorvision internals. Its just a term. But i do agree that someone without knowledge of the Tutorvision & the history of Intellivision would be confused by the term.

 I also dont think anyone ever said they were sold as Tutorvision's back in the days of INTV. We understand that.

I agree with your opinion on these points. Makes perfect sense.

 

This is where my opinion differs. If all of the internal boards, chips, Roms are the same as the Tutorvision prototypes (and not the same as the majority of Super Pro Components produced), that would make it different regardless of the intention of Valeski. At the very least, it would be a variant of the Super Pro System.

 

I believe that was his point:  Super Pro, TutorVision, Intellivision, etc., were all product brands, not individual SKUs.  A Super Pro System with an INTV88 main board, is a variant of the Super Pro System product line, but not a new SKU -- it was sold as a regular, run of the mill Super Pro System, and made to function identically as the others.

 

This would be no different from, say, a running change that combined multiple chips into one.  That the replacement chips happen to be from other components or products, or from a future-spec'ed-yet-never-materialized product; is just happenstance, and purely an accident of history.

 

Of course, from a collector's perspective, it may seem like a big deal (and as Mr. Ives suggest, it is indeed cool in and of itself); but remember that those that bought it originally only knew they had a Super Pro System, just like any of the others.

 

 

18 minutes ago, Psycho Stormtrooper- Rog said:

All good ideas.

Keep in mind, I believe the name "TutorPro" was originally mentioned as a joke (i think). It stuck because it was a shorter version of the more technical names given to the "Super Pro master component with 1988 board & STIC 1A with WBEXEC internals originally designed for World Book Tutorvision".

I dont believe any of the names given previously were to change anything or to suggest Valeski intended to release a different version of the Super Pro System.

I think there is value in maintaining the term Super Pro name, albeit with some additional classifier, if only to avoid unnecessary confusion from anybody else trying to understand the history and provenance of the items.

 

Or doesn't have to be an outlandishly verbose name as you suggested above.  Maybe something as simple as "Super Pro (WB)," I don't know.  The point is that it is not a TutorVision, does not work as a TutorVision, is not branded as a TutorVision, therefore should not be confused with one -- a TutorVision is a very specific thing.

 

TutorPro is not a bad name, and I can see why you and others adopted it, but hidden in it is a bunch of caveats which are passed on by pure lore, and not an official name that everybody can relate to.

 

    dZ.

[+Psycho Stormtrooper- Rog]

Touche.

So when referring to these systems (SUPER PRO WBEXEC).. what do we call them? Just that?

They are referrenced from time to time and it would be nice if we all called it the same thing. Just to keep it simple. That is how i came to know it as Tutor Pro. People referring to it here on AA.

[mr_me]

The wbexec is Tutorvision specific.  I think it's okay to call them Super Pro Tutorvisions because they do function exactly as a Tutorvision.

 

I wouldn't call the INTV88 boards Tutorvision boards because it might suggest they were created for the Tutorvision.  They were created for Intellivisions to address the changes in the Intellivision chip set.

[+Psycho Stormtrooper- Rog]

1 hour ago, mr_me said:

The wbexec is Tutorvision specific.  I think it's okay to call them Super Pro Tutorvisions because they do function exactly as a Tutorvision.

 

I wouldn't call the INTV88 boards Tutorvision boards because it might suggest they were created for the Tutorvision.  They were created for Intellivisions to address the changes in the Intellivision chip set.

Good point.

I forget that some people read these posts and are puzzled by the termanology. If individuals are not regulars on AA or are not knowledgable of the history, it can be confusing.

[+DZ-Jay]

1 hour ago, mr_me said:

The wbexec is Tutorvision specific.  I think it's okay to call them Super Pro Tutorvisions because they do function exactly as a Tutorvision.

 

I wouldn't call the INTV88 boards Tutorvision boards because it might suggest they were created for the Tutorvision.  They were created for Intellivisions to address the changes in the Intellivision chip set.

 

Sorry, I got confused by the terms.  You are right.

 

Just now, Psycho Stormtrooper- Rog said:

Good point.

I forget that some people read these posts and are puzzled by the termanology. If individuals are not regulars on AA or are not knowledgable of the history, it can be confusing.

 

See above.

[+Lathe26]

The first name that folks came up with was "Super Pro TutorVision" with the idea that the "TutorVision" portion of the name implying that it was TutorVision-compatible.  Soon, folks just started using the term "Tutor Pro" as shorter easier-to-type slang.

 

That said, I have no opposition to changing the name nor am I opposed to leaving the name as-is.

[+DZ-Jay]

7 hours ago, Lathe26 said:

The first name that folks came up with was "Super Pro TutorVision" with the idea that the "TutorVision" portion of the name implying that it was TutorVision-compatible.  Soon, folks just started using the term "Tutor Pro" as shorter easier-to-type slang.

 

That said, I have no opposition to changing the name nor am I opposed to leaving the name as-is.

 

I don't care either way, for I am not all that familiar with any of those.  If I had to form an opinion (and I do because ... me), I think "Super Pro TutorVision" would convey its meaning better than "TutorPro" -- if only because I was just as confused about the nature of all those terms as Mr. Ives predicted in his comments.

 

Seeing them laid out explicitly as Mr. Ives did, helped me understand the differences between them, which I will admit was not evident to me before, even as I've been visiting this forum regularly for over 10 years.  I know what a "Super Pro System" is, and I've heard of a "WorldBook TutorVision," so "Super Pro TutorVision" at least lets me relate it to something.  "TutorPro" tells me nothing, on the other hand.

 

I believe the point that Mr. Ives was making is not that people shouldn't be able to call their toys in whichever way they want, but that this forum -- AtariAge > Classic Consoles > Intellivision / Aquarius -- is taken by many (myself included) as authoritative in many regards and that, absent any specific and clear guide explaining the differences between these models, the slang used casually by most may lead to misunderstanding by others not in-the-know -- others like myself.

 

    -dZ.

[mr_me]

Nicknames can be okay, you wouldn't use them in a document.  Even Super Pro Tutorvision would need explanation in a document.  People use Inty or INTV all the time for the Intellivision system.  INTV always bothered me because I think of the company that existed from 1985 to 1990.

 

One other thing to note about Super Pro Intellivisions with a Tutorvision exec is that they are less of an Intellivision.  The ECS Computer Adaptor and homebrews that use memory region $2000 won't work.

Edited April 26, 2023 by mr_me

[+Psycho Stormtrooper- Rog]

9 minutes ago, mr_me said:

People use Inty or INTV all the time for the Intellivision system. 

When i use "INTV" i'm always referring to the company & not Intellivision as a whole. I do see people interchange that too sometimes. Thats when you have to enlighten them. If they have any sense, they will be appreciative and not feel called out.

[+Lathe26]

The problem with INTV is that it is also used as shorthand for the word "interview".

 

The result is that if you search eBay for "INTV", you will get mostly Intellivision stuff but also 10% Playboy magazine 🐇.

[+cmadruga]

Is an INTV System III equivalent to a Super Pro/X1?

Do any of the Super Pro “variants” discussed previously apply to the System III?

I think I know the answers, but just wanted to confirm.

[mr_me]

I think XI refers to the board revision Mattel used in 1980.  There are newer revisions with a two chip scratchpad RAM version, and different types of gram chips.

 

INTV Super Pro Intellivisions should be newer than those branded INTV System III, but it's hard to say where INTV sourced their parts in the final years.  Intellivision Productions had a Tutorvision with INTV System III branding, that could be an exception.

[First Spear]

I am openly inviting anyone to make a 6-sentence synopsis of that, so I can have it accurately placed in the Intellivision FAQ. This is a source of questions and confusion, so it would be cool if someone could distill this into something concise. There will of course be a FAQ source link to this thread (and a couple of others that exist already). 

Thanks! 

[Zendocon]

On 4/25/2023 at 8:12 AM, Walter Ives said:

Given that perspective, my view is

A Super Pro System with a conventional board (e.g.: Rev. X1) is a Super Pro System based on the GI chipset.

A Super Pro System with an INTV 1987 board is a Super Pro System based on the GI chipset, but with a CP1610A CPU.

A Super Pro System with an INTV 1988 board and the original EXEC isn't a Tutor-anything, it's a Super Pro System based on STIC 1A (as opposed to the original chipset). It has nothing to do with World Book.

A Super Pro System with an INTV 1988 board and a WBEXEC is a Super Pro System that happens to be TutorVision compatible. But it's still a Super Pro System, just like it says on the label, and shouldn't be retro-named, at least not by those that take the hobby seriously. That such systems exist at all is due to the fact that circumstances left Valeski with a stock of WBEXEC ROMs and he was a master at squeezing value out of whatever he had in inventory. Once that inventory had been exhausted there was no reason to continue to pay good money for the larger ROMs required. Had this been a Mattel Electronics effort those ROMs would have been junked.

A TutorVision is a master component in white and blue livery with the World Book logo, of which only the one or two prototypes are known to have survived.

I know about the STIC 1A - and I even wrote Little Man Computer to autodetect it - but I didn't know there was also a CP1610A.  What were the differences?

[mr_me]

42 minutes ago, Zendocon said:

I know about the STIC 1A - and I even wrote Little Man Computer to autodetect it - but I didn't know there was also a CP1610A.  What were the differences?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/13ApQEm1Xw_DcCAaXcQvpFot_BvrzSzeUo95EXCf41uc/mobilebasic#h.35b7k5ohud7d

Intvnut covered it in his Tutorvision analysis.  I think it's a cost reduced version of the cpu that works off of 5v.

Edited July 17, 2023 by mr_me