The completely underappreciated possibilities of Mode 0 on SNES. . . .

[Kirk_Johnston]

1 hour ago, Cris1997XX said:

I know you're Inceptional, so it's about time you drop this bullshit. As I've already told you on youtube...I get you love the SNES and anything, I think it's a great console too. But if you really want it to have more homebrew, you either re-consider your priorities or you learn how to program. Very few people will bother learning 6502 assembly, so they'd rather work on the Sega Mega Drive or whatever other console with modern support. In that case you'll need to start coding and discover how to make most out of the SNES' hardware. As a wise person once said..."Be the change you wish to see in the world"

I've never pretended I wasn't iNCEPTIONAL. In fact, I made it pretty clear I was iNCEPTIONAL in one of my very first posts to this forum. This is not a revelation to most people in here.

 

And we're starting to get games like Dottie Flowers, Rex Nobilis, Xeno Crisis, Black Jewel Reborn, Alien Cat 2, Supercooked, Old Towers, Eyra the Crow Maiden, The Curse of Illmoore Bay, Biz-Billes, Petscii Robots, Nova the Squirrel 2, and full ports of stuff like The Legend of Zelda, Mega Man II, Mega Man IV, and DuckTales from NES, etc, so I think the narrative around no one wanting to work on SNES is becoming weaker every day. And all of this is without a properly matured SDK or an easy to use SNES game creation tool either, so just imagine what the situation could be like if one day those things do actually exist. . . .

 

PS. I have zero clue who you are based on your name. You could be one of the many plonkers trolling me on YouTube, one of whom has about ten different accounts at this point created solely for that purpose. So, welcome to the long list of Kirk Johnston/iNCEPTIONAL "fans".

Edited August 12, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston

[+Biff Burgertime]

On 8/12/2023 at 5:09 AM, Kirk_Johnston said:

I've never pretended I wasn't iNCEPTIONAL. In fact, I made it pretty clear I was iNCEPTIONAL in one of my very first posts to this forum.

You should become an AtariAge subscriber, it allows for changing your username. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone, support AtariAge & maintain a consistent identity across platforms - avoid conversations like this.

 

^{I love AtariAge and I'll be a shill if I want to!}

[turboxray]

On 8/5/2023 at 4:02 PM, Kirk_Johnston said:

Because I realised I'd actually used the only half-converted image in the GM concept test build I'd recorded in the footage above, I just wanted to upload the fully-converted version of the image here to show it using the proper 8bpp 256-colours as intended, just so it's clear that either way it still looks basically identical for all meaningful intents and purposes--so close that only plonkers are wasting my time debating it imo--hence why I'm fine with not uploading another video of what amounts to the same thing:

 

It's here now, less anyone else on YouTube tries to pretty much imply I'm just duping people or whatever like TurboXray hardcore PC Engine lover and long-time objector to all things I have to say about, suggest, or do on SNES basically did a moment ago, albeit in a nice a polite manner of course.

 

It's real clear that some people just don't want to allow the SNES to go great things, and certainly not if that means something more impressive than you would see on the likes of Genesis and PC Engine, and I get the impression they will try everything to dismiss its capabilities rather than simply accept it can indeed do some awesome stuff when utilised fully.

 

I mean, seriously, how threatened and desperate does someone need to be to call out the honestly anal tiny differences here rather than just admit that what they're seeing actually looks dang impressive no matter how you cut it.

Dude. seriously? You want to call me out? You're literally the text book definition of an idiot by action and example. If a "hardcore pc engine lover" knows waaay more than you than your beloved snes, and yet you're the one who resorting to inaccurate gamemaker mocks up as some sort of authority on snes capabilities... and that doesn't stop and make you think? But no, people are just dismissing you because they don't want to the snes to do great things? What??? You need to say that back to yourself, in the mirror, out loud,... and think about how that actually sounds haha.

 

That pic in your video isn't "tiny anal differences". It's goatse scale. It's literally a dithered 256 color image VS an image with over 100,000 colors in it. That's not "tiny" or insignificant.. and if you do not understand how that even translates into detail (i.e. detail loss)... then you shouldn't even be posting these "informative videos". I called you out on being disingenuous - because it's true. I don't care WHO you are.. if you try speak with authority on something, make sure it's right. And you are definitely trying to speak with authority when you don't have the knowledge, experience, or apparently integrity to do so. Meanwhile, I'll keep up with snes devs that actually know their stuff, and don't have some sort of insecurity complex thinking I'm anti-snes or something hahaha. I swear, this guy....

[Tanooki]

That's all he has @turboxray game maker mock up and bait n switch style arguing to take what you say, switch it out with some game makered up bait of his own, and use this as facts to be right and that's that.  Why do you think I kept pushing back in that other thread until it got locked?  It's the same routine that went down on snes dev and elsewhere, he sits and ridicules them as lazy, unfit, incapable of actual thought and effort, that they just are some cabal of self hating SNES fans who want to stop progress and limit the system denying what it can do.  I'd call this tin foil hat territory, but given how the wreckage has gone from site to site, it's more of a tin foil suit and hat, inside of a tin foil house.  You're not the first for months, into years now of people calling out the lack of knowledge, skills, and integrity as most are just tired of it.  Debate is fine, but pulling the rug out, moving the goal post, getting snappy and crying about gas lighting and the rest is where it goes when it can't be backed up.

 

Also, ever wonder why he's kirk here and not Inceptional?  Google that user name with SNES and/or Nintendo and you'll find all the dirty laundry you need as it's a pattern.

 

I used to love this section, now I barely read it because the wreckage just continues and it's not worth the headache.  People make fun of or just poke at because of the consistency of the writing difficulties that johannesmutlu has, but at least as hard as it is to follow the writing at least you can follow his thoughts and they do make sense if you can translate it, and he never gets salty either or angry when corrected.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Tanooki

[Wayler]

But surely, it can't be him, never him. It is always the other people.

 

You can't teach a blind man the color brown, I read in a (banned) book somewhere.

[Kirk_Johnston]

8 hours ago, turboxray said:

Dude. seriously? You want to call me out? You're literally the text book definition of an idiot by action and example. If a "hardcore pc engine lover" knows waaay more than you than your beloved snes, and yet you're the one who resorting to inaccurate gamemaker mocks up as some sort of authority on snes capabilities... and that doesn't stop and make you think? But no, people are just dismissing you because they don't want to the snes to do great things? What??? You need to say that back to yourself, in the mirror, out loud,... and think about how that actually sounds haha.

 

That pic in your video isn't "tiny anal differences". It's goatse scale. It's literally a dithered 256 color image VS an image with over 100,000 colors in it. That's not "tiny" or insignificant.. and if you do not understand how that even translates into detail (i.e. detail loss)... then you shouldn't even be posting these "informative videos". I called you out on being disingenuous - because it's true. I don't care WHO you are.. if you try speak with authority on something, make sure it's right. And you are definitely trying to speak with authority when you don't have the knowledge, experience, or apparently integrity to do so. Meanwhile, I'll keep up with snes devs that actually know their stuff, and don't have some sort of insecurity complex thinking I'm anti-snes or something hahaha. I swear, this guy....

Funny how you know waaay more about the SNES, so says you, but you have literally nothing to show for it.

 

You can keep denying the stuff I'm concepting is possible all you want, but that just shows me how afraid you are for someone to do it rather than anything else at all.

 

Anyone who isn't just burying their heads in the sand or arguing with me purely for the sake of arguing at this point--grow up if that's the case--knows the SNES is more than capable of all the stuff I'm showing, as demonstrated perfectly by the handful of examples that have literally been programmed to run on the system already, which exist as indisputable proof that what I say is based on the truths of the what the system can do. They don't all have to be coded up just because people like you want to create false narratives around the system's capabilities because it can do something better than the system you like more and that upsets you. I mean, Christ, look how hard you've worked just to have just TWO overlapping background layers on PC Engine, using up pretty much the entirety of the available sprites in the process, just so you can do something SNES does in its sleep. Maybe you're a little envious of the systems that can do multiple background layers as literally standard.

 

Also, show us all exactly a single thing you've done on SNES in any capacity. . . .

 

Given your logic, you literally don't have the slightest clue as to what the system can and cannot do unless you've actually programmed and created a single thing to run on it that pushes it to test this. I mean, I've created and programmed vastly superior games to you in systems that aren't the SNES, so I'm clearly leagues ahead of you if that's how you decide who knows what about what, if all you're claims about what SNES can and cannot do are based on reading some SNES documentation and the like, but you're only actually coding some demos on the PC Engine, which is, in case you didn't realise, not the SNES.

 

Stop talking about what the SNES is and isn't capable of and go make some actual examples to prove you're right that it can't do something, or indeed the opposite--even get someone else to program them if you need to like I did--if you dare. I triple dare you.

 

Until then, I've done more than you and can speak with more authority than you as to what the limits of the SNES are, as I actually have multiple working demos that run on the actual hardware and are testing some of those limits--which you appear to have literally ZERO of.

 

 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston

[Austin]

It's kind of a sad state of affairs when the SNES area has more popcorn-worthy material than the Jaguar section.

[Kirk_Johnston]

15 minutes ago, Austin said:

It's kind of a sad state of affairs when the SNES area has more popcorn-worthy material than the Jaguar section.

Yes, it really is. And it's not because of someone in the SNES-specific sub-forum bigging up the SNES, showing examples of stuff it can matter-of-fact do, celebrating and loving on the console in the sub-forum dedicated to it, debating trolls who come in and slyly try to diminish anything positive that happens around it, etc. Well, it partly is because someone debates the trolls rather than just allow them to slither in and do their work freely. But some of us choose to actually stand up for what you believe in and love. It's just sad that I know more people in the Genesis and PC Engine forums would utterly destroy any troll or hater that went in there and tried to insidiously hate in any way on their console of choice. And similarly, they seem to band together and end up working on projects and stuff as teams with a common goal too, hence the Genesis indie/homebrew scene is thriving. But here we are in the SNES-specific sub-forum.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston

[WavyGravy]

This whole saga has had some twists, but I never thought I'd see someone who, by their own admission, cannot code in assembly challenge turboxray, of all people, to a tech-demo competition on a 65xx-based system. 

 

You have lost your fucking mind, and I don't know if we should be talking you down or selling tickets.

[Austin]

19 minutes ago, Kirk_Johnston said:

Yes, it really is. And it's not because of someone in the SNES-specific sub-forum bigging up the SNES, showing examples of stuff it can matter-of-fact do, celebrating and loving on the console in the sub-forum dedicate to it, debating trolls who come in and slyly try to diminish anything positive that happens around it, etc. Well, it partly is because someone debates the trolls rather than just allow them to slither in and do their work freely, but some of us choose to actually stand up for what you believe and love.

If you want to "big up" (lmao) the SNES, go play some actual games for once, then come back and talk about those.

 

In the Jaguar circle they call this kind of nonsense "numberwang"--People spouting out theoretical, hardware-pushing techniques, yet never actually being able to put it into practice. Until you start making your theories an actual reality, no one here is going to give two craps about your numberwang.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Austin

[Kirk_Johnston]

51 minutes ago, WavyGravy said:

This whole saga has had some twists, but I never thought I'd see someone who, by their own admission, cannot code in assembly challenge turboxray, of all people, to a tech-demo competition on a 65xx-based system. 

 

You have lost your fucking mind, and I don't know if we should be talking you down or selling tickets.

The dude has not coded a single thing on SNES--or show us! I have multiple working demos on the f'n thing that show I know fine well what it is and is not capable of, irrespective of whether I literally typed the code or not. He denies what it can do or what I say it can do without ever having tried it in any capacity--or show us! I'm saying what it can do, and I have working demos to prove it, and other stuff beyond that based on what I said that other people coded to see for themselves if what I was saying was possible--like the SNES palette cycling demo by Brad Smith--and it was. Until he does a single thing on SNES to prove anything, I am the authority over him in that regard. Use your f'n brain. In fact, go use your f'n brain to make a single SNES demo yourself--and stop arguing with me until then. . . .

 

All of this talk about what I do and don't know about SNES and I've still done more on SNES than most of the people in here arguing with me about what it can and cannot do. Christ, even a single image created using Rilden's Tiled Palette Quantization tool is more work on actual SNES stuff than most of the people attacking me in here have done. Get a f'n reality check on where you stand in the hierarchy of all things SNES.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston

[OldSchoolRetroGamer]

[Austin]

4 minutes ago, Kirk_Johnston said:

I have working demos to prove it

Feel free to attach some functional ROMs that can be loaded onto a flash cart and played on real hardware. K, thanks.

[Kirk_Johnston]

41 minutes ago, Austin said:

Feel free to attach some functional ROMs that can be loaded onto a flash cart and played on real hardware. K, thanks.

These are a few things I either got someone to make for me specifically based on what I knew could be done on SNES or were made because of something I was specifically telling someone something could be done and they didn't fully believe it until they tried it:

 

SNES Palette Cycling Demo.zip

This is exists because I literally spent days arguing with these tools that this could be done, and people like Turboxray kept basically trying to diminish it out the gate by arguing based on his great SNES knowledge that it would need to use forced blank and so on, so one dude finally just went and tried it--and miracle of miracles!

 

Mode0Bridge.smc

This one I got someone to code for me after coming up with everything based on my knowledge of what the SNES could and could not do in Mode 0 and building a fully working prototype in GameMaker for him to use as the reference (and my prototype was even more advanced than this).

 

I can't remember where to find the file for this one above, so the footage of the .sfc file running on a SNES emulator will have to do for now. Similarly to above, what I created in GameMaker to show how all of this would be done was more advanced that what you see here.

 

And, obviously, all the image stuff I've shown was converted with Rilden's Palette Quantization Tool, and will clearly work on SNES as soon any a single person literally just converts the image into a SNES file, which you can go do yourself if you're so adamant about testing it directly on the hardware to prove how ignorant I am and that the SNES simply couldn't possibly do the kind of things I'm suggesting.

 

By the way, that same thinking applies to all of my proof of concepts for SNES. Go code them up yourself if you wanna see if I'm wrong or not, if you're so adamant you know better.

 

Now, shall we all see Turboxray's SNES work. . . .

 

Also, do I really need to go post all the stuff I've specifically designed, created art for, and programmed entirely myself that pisses on anything like the likes of TurboXray has done in his existence on this planet--because that will just start to get embarrassing for him [and anyone else questioning me who's in the same boat as him]--if that's how we're deciding who's the superior human being with the most wisdom about this and that or whatever other crap?!

 

Despite all the people basically saying I'm just talk and not the walk regarding the SNES, all I seem to hearing and seeing from those exact same people is a lot of talk and no walk.

 

Listen, all the people who want to challenge me on this--throw your stones at your own glass house.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston

[WavyGravy]

So, palette-cycling (it's a nice picture, to be fair), and an SMW hack, neither of which you made yourself. And yet, that makes you an authority? Let's put it this way: If I commission someone to make an oil painting of something because I don't even know which end of the brush to use, do I then have the authority to reject criticism from someone who does amazing work with acrylics?

[Kirk_Johnston]

6 minutes ago, WavyGravy said:

So, palette-cycling (it's a nice picture, to be fair), and an SMW hack, neither of which you made yourself. And yet, that makes you an authority? Let's put it this way: If I commission someone to make an oil painting of something because I don't even know which end of the brush to use, do I then have the authority to reject criticism from someone who does amazing work with acrylics?

Until you show me a single thing you've done in any capacity whatsoever on/for SNES and that actually works within its limitations therefore demonstrating you have any clue whatsoever to meaningfully debate me . . .

Edited August 21, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston

[WavyGravy]

Answer the question.

[Kirk_Johnston]

1 minute ago, WavyGravy said:

Answer the question.

See above. . . .

 

Let's make this about you.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston

[WavyGravy]

It's a simple hypothetical. I suspect you don't like your answer to it.

[Mittens0407]

38 minutes ago, Kirk_Johnston said:

Also, do I really need to go post all the stuff I've specifically designed, created art for, and programmed entirely myself that pisses on anything like the likes of TurboXray has done in his existence on this planet--because that will just start to get embarrassing for him [and anyone else questioning me who's in the same boat as him]--if that's how we're deciding who's the superior human being with the most wisdom about this and that or whatever other crap?!

Nothing that you've done in regards to the SNES is impressive. All of your "contributions" to the SNES community can be more accurately described as you being an "ideas man" begging people to write code for you.

[Wayler]

1 hour ago, Kirk_Johnston said:

It's just sad that I know more people in the Genesis and PC Engine forums would utterly destroy any troll or hater that went in there and tried to insidiously hate in any way on their console of choice. And similarly, they seem to band together and end up working on projects and stuff as teams with a common goal too, hence the Genesis indie/homebrew scene is thriving. But here we are in the SNES-specific sub-forum.

Have you noticed how these so-called trolls and haters are always just simply against you, for basically being a massive johnson all the time? It has nothing to do with the console and that is why there is no "utter destruction of insidious hate" needed.

[Kirk_Johnston]

37 minutes ago, Wayler said:

Have you noticed how these so-called trolls and haters are always just simply against you, for basically being a massive johnson all the time? It has nothing to do with the console and that is why there is no "utter destruction of insidious hate" needed.

You've clearly not actually checked for the other examples in the other forums, just like you haven't properly checked any of the stuff I've claimed about the SNES either, nor have you done anything directly on it yourself that would put you in a position to even remotely debate me on it. You keep throwing stones from inside your glass house--seems like a pattern there too.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston

[Kirk_Johnston]

1 hour ago, Mittens0407 said:

Nothing that you've done in regards to the SNES is impressive. All of your "contributions" to the SNES community can be more accurately described as you being an "ideas man" begging people to write code for you.

And they have written code for me and created tests because of me, on multiple occasions.

 

Now, show us all what you have done on SNES for comparison or just to give you any authority on such a thing whatsoever, such that you think you're in a position to question my worth on the subject of the SNES and what it can and cannot do--anything at all. . . .

Edited August 21, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston

[Kirk_Johnston]

2 hours ago, Austin said:

If you want to "big up" (lmao) the SNES, go play some actual games for once, then come back and talk about those.

 

In the Jaguar circle they call this kind of nonsense "numberwang"--People spouting out theoretical, hardware-pushing techniques, yet never actually being able to put it into practice. Until you start making your theories an actual reality, no one here is going to give two craps about your numberwang.

See above before you spout your mouth off: 

 

1. There are multiple working SNES examples I have linked, which I designed, prototyped and then got someone to code, or working tests people did on SNES as a direct result of me getting into it with people like you in forums like this when I presented various concepts and ideas of what the hardware was capable of, which they often questioned and dismissed themselves until they went and tried it and found out I was correct.

 

2. Now, show us all what you have done on SNES--anything at all?

 

3. And, outside of SNES, I'm betting I've done far more in terms of game design, art, and programming on other platforms than you too.

 

So, exactly where do you imagine you are coming from on this.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston

[Kirk_Johnston]

1 hour ago, WavyGravy said:

It's a simple hypothetical. I suspect you don't like your answer to it.

See above again. I suspect you don't like to face the reality of what's really true here--you are a hypocrite, and one that apparently has nothing to back up any of your own words and implications that apparently surely come from some place of authority on all things SNES, right.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston