Atari Mr Run and Jump

[Zonie]

Yep, I agree. The Dog is the best part. The rest looks kinda Meh, and the flicker could be managed much better. Let the homebrewers here have a whack at it.

[MrTrust]

6 hours ago, Dionoid said:

I'm also surprised by the flicker, which looks to be something that can easily be solved by multiplexing the player objects or setting the appropriate player size/copy register.

 

It's weird, because if the dude spent months reading up on 2600 ASM, you'd think he'd have come across those things.

 

On 7/17/2023 at 1:53 PM, Crazy Climber said:

I don't know why everyone is so mad. Atari figured out their market and its not us...

 

Who's mad?  Like I already said, I've got no ill feelings toward Mr. Mikula or his game.  According to him, this was a stepping stone to get into retro game development, and he was just going to put it on Steam and be happy if he got 100 downloads.

 

Nothing wrong with that by my lights.  Atari gave him the opportunity to have a real release on cartridge, and he took it.  I'd have done the same thing.  I have Kombinera, which is a nice puzzle game, and the new Mr. Run and Jump looks great, and I will very likely buy and enjoy it as well.  The guy and his game company are A-OK as far as I am concerned.

 

Now, Atari, on the other hand, need to have their grubby little asses paddled.  You're right that this release is exactly in line with those XP cartridge releases, and those things were the sleaziest, slimiest, shady carny rip-off magic bean bullshit they've pulled in a long time.  Their "audience" are sleazebags, and they're even bigger sleazebags for facilitating the grift, and they're the biggest sleazebags on the block for pretending this is a real, legitimate release and not some guy's retro juvenilia that they're putting in a nice package on for a quick buck.

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by MrTrust

[JetSetIlly]

8 hours ago, ZeroPage Homebrew said:

John Mikula says he programmed it in assembly in this video (@ 11m7s)

Thanks for the video link. It was interesting to hear him put the game into context.

[BillDMatt]

On 7/24/2023 at 2:31 PM, Thomas Jentzsch said:

So the hefty flicker is real. Plus significant sync problem between screens. ☹️

just watched the John Hancock video,   where is the heavy flicker?    the screen transition flicker is quite evident, that I see, obviously and I'm not sure if that's going to be a deal breaker for me,  but otherwise it seemed rather smooth.    the stages where the objects are flickering seem to me to be deliberate for effects purposes, like some pulsating peril.   been used before by games to use flicker to your advantage.    Unless you are seeing something else?  otherwise to me it's the screen to screen that I'm debating whether I can live with, if this is indeed wide spread or just isolated  to Johns copy.

 

I would find it hard to believe that the creator and Atari would give the green light with this glaring glitch.      I hope they address this because we won't  be able to know if it was an isolated/ pre production version   or wide spread because the game won't ship for a while.  

Edited July 25, 2023 by BillDMatt

[+KaeruYojimbo]

5 hours ago, BillDMatt said:

where is the heavy flicker? 

A good example is at 9 minutes into the video. I could be wrong, but I just don't think this is a deliberate aesthetic choice, especially since the flicker is only in rooms with multiple objects. It looks more like an inexperienced programmer not knowing a better way to display multiple items.

[+Nathan Strum]

The trilogy is now complete.

 

 

 

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

7 hours ago, Nathan Strum said:

The trilogy is now complete.

Nasty!  

[+Yurkie]

is the run jump in the john hancok video on 2600 real hardware? Or what emulator was this played on please.

[+KaeruYojimbo]

14 hours ago, Yurkie said:

is the run jump in the john hancok video on 2600 real hardware? Or what emulator was this played on please.

Real hardware. Specifically, an s-video modded 7800 (right after the 8 minute mark in the video). He also mentions playing it on a 2600 junior.

[E. King]

 

 

The game looks glitchy in the screen transitions and has some flicker issues. 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

On 7/24/2023 at 8:31 PM, Thomas Jentzsch said:

So the hefty flicker is real. Plus significant sync problem between screens. ☹️

5 hours ago, E. King said:

The game looks glitchy in the screen transitions and has some flicker issues. 

 

[+chriswhit]

I’ll definitely agree that it’s boarder line. I think this game won’t sell many copy’s because they didn’t release something new to play 2600 games and if they were gonna do that theyd need many titles for the plan to work. Who ever is running things is making iffy decisions with to many hopes. I’m buying but not because I like it but more because sh** that’s iffy usually don’t sell well and I’ll probably have a rarity 10 near immediately. Even if it’s not it’s an oddity being released after so many years so it’s a piece of the story and a laugh at Atari. Part of me thinks it’s not worth buying but in this case that may mean buying might be worth it. We’ll see in time I guess. I think Atari will fold again if they don’t really step up their game. If they did a 7800 release that compared to the quality of Bentley bear it would help them more but I think they’re cheaper than the Tremel’s that helped kill Atari. This games value lies in the fact that many don’t like it. Kinda wondering if it’s gonna release. Todays the day and it’s not pre orderable yet. The price sucks so I feel like I’m bending over. I also think this game doesn’t look like it compares to the originals that were borderline by todays standards. I definitely understand why many won’t buy it. 

[+chriswhit]

I’m starting to think it’s not gonna release. The other version for windows released on the 25th. If it doesn’t do well on day 1 they may realize they gotta do better or get out of the game. 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I am sure they will release it. Collectors are where the money is, and many buy almost anything. Especially if branded with "Atari".

[+chriswhit]

1 hour ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

I am sure they will release it. Collectors are where the money is, and many buy almost anything. Especially if branded with "Atari".

Yes I was gonna buy a copy to never open just cause the first cart release in house in many years. What I don’t get is Why postpone a pre order 1 day? I think the release on the 25th for steam and windows probably didn’t go well and they’re probably debating on what to do. That’s the only logical reason as they already said in add 3-4 months to ship so if it’s guaranteed release why postpone? I bet it gets postponed again tomorrow. Well maybe they had an issue with the sight but it’s gotta be one of those 2 reasons. 

[E. King]

10 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

 

The dev said the screen transition glitch is not from the game rom.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

15 minutes ago, E. King said:

The dev said the screen transition glitch is not from the game rom.

I cannot see how this could be created by emulation.

[E. King]

2 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

I cannot see how this could be created by emulation.

The dev said it does not have the screen transition glitch in emulation or on cart when he has played it but he has not played it yet on the Atari made cartridge. That video with the screen transition glitch was played on a 7800 so either the glitching happened due to the AV mod or the cartridge was not fully compatible with that particular 7800 console or there was some issue with the cartridge production or the video capture.

[+x=usr(1536)]

43 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

I cannot see how this could be created by emulation.

*cough*Billy Mitchell*cough* 

[+Nathan Strum]

I'd be fully willing to accept this as an issue of "Atari" "Quality" "Control".

[+KaeruYojimbo]

56 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said:

*cough*Billy Mitchell*cough* 

Did the score jump up after the glitches?

[+x=usr(1536)]

18 minutes ago, KaeruYojimbo said:

Did the score jump up after the glitches?

And does Mr. Run and Jump occasionally sprout fingers?

[Thomas Jentzsch]

7 hours ago, E. King said:

The dev said it does not have the screen transition glitch in emulation or on cart when he has played it but he has not played it yet on the Atari made cartridge. That video with the screen transition glitch was played on a 7800 so either the glitching happened due to the AV mod or the cartridge was not fully compatible with that particular 7800 console or there was some issue with the cartridge production or the video capture.

From what I know, that's not possible. What is possible is, that his equipment (hardware and software) does eliminate the glitches. E.g. Stella is setup by default to make the games look as good as possible. For developers, it has extra options which expose programming errors. But if you do not enable them, then you may not notice e.g. sync problems.

[alex_79]

13 hours ago, E. King said:

That video with the screen transition glitch was played on a 7800 so either the glitching happened due to the AV mod ...

As Thomas said, that's not possible or believable: whatever video mod is installed in that console, if it was sending non-standard sync signal, the glitches would happen randomly and not exactly at screen transitions.  That clearly indicates a problem in the software, as the timing of vertical sync pulses in a 2600 game is under software control.

13 hours ago, E. King said:

... or the cartridge was not fully compatible with that particular 7800 console or there was some issue with the cartridge production ...

Again, not possible: the cartridge function is to respond to an address outputted by the 2600 by outputting a byte on the data lines corresponding to that address. If it's not fully compatible, the game would glitch randomly (and typically crash almost immediately). The idea that a cartridge with a manufacturing defect would, by chance, only affect exactly some specific bytes so that the program miraculously keeps running with the only issue of altering the VSYNC exactly at the screen transition is absurd.

The same applies in case of extra hardware in the cartridge like bankswitching or extra ram. A malfunction/incompatibility would cause random glitches and most likely a crash of the game.

13 hours ago, E. King said:

... or the video capture

Just like the hardware in the video mod or the one in the cartridge, the video capture has no concept of "screen transition". If the video capture displays the game fine except for screen transitions, it means that the game is doing something wrong when it needs to switch to the next screen.

 

The glitch is due to the game (that is, the rom) beyond any reasonable doubt.

Edited August 1, 2023 by alex_79

[E. King]

1 hour ago, alex_79 said:

As Thomas said, that's not possible or believable: whatever video mod is installed in that console, if it was sending non-standard sync signal, the glitches would happen randomly and not exactly at screen transitions.  That clearly indicates a problem in the software, as the timing of vertical sync pulses in a 2600 game is under software control.

Again, not possible: the cartridge function is to respond to an address outputted by the 2600 by outputting a byte on the data lines corresponding to that address. If it's not fully compatible, the game would glitch randomly (and typically crash almost immediately). The idea that a cartridge with a manufacturing defect would, by chance, only affect exactly some specific bytes so that the program miraculously keeps running with the only issue of altering the VSYNC exactly at the screen transition is absurd.

The same applies in case of extra hardware in the cartridge like bankswitching or extra ram. A malfunction/incompatibility would cause random glitches and most likely a crash of the game.

Just like the hardware in the video mod or the one in the cartridge, the video capture has no concept of "screen transition". If the video capture displays the game fine except for screen transitions, it means that the game is doing something wrong when it needs to switch to the next screen.

 

The glitch is due to the game (that is, the rom) beyond any reasonable doubt.

Ok then, assuming the dev is correct that it's not an issue with the rom, that sounds like you are narrowing it down to some issue with the way the cart was made that they sent to Hancock, but I would expect they get it sorted in the production for the silver label run.