Do 5200 controllers have a super high failure rate or am I just unlucky?

[RockLobster]

Of my 4 controllers from 3 separate sources, none of the controllers work.   Tried on two separate 5200 consoles.

 

Are they really that prone to failure?

[+-^CrossBow^-]

They are quite failure prone yes. But what exactly is it that isn't working besides saying they don't work? Do the side fire buttons work on any of them. Is it the start,pause, reset that aren't working and is that on all of the controllers? Etc?

 

[BIGHMW]

Sounds like we have a newcomer the the 5200 world (WELCOME!  ), it may be time to put him through Best Electronics ordering procedure 101 for those never-fail Rev. 10 gold flex circuits and button replacement kit they sell so DON'T THROW THOSE CONTROLLERS AWAY!!! There IS hope!!!

[RockLobster]

3 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

But what exactly is it that isn't working besides saying they don't work? Do the side fire buttons work on any of them. Is it the start,pause, reset that aren't working and is that on all of the controllers? Etc?

You're right. I should have added that from the get go.  So of the 4, all of them seemed to not have at least a working start button.  ...and via Defender's menu to select difficulty, none of them had working 1-6 buttons on the keypad also.

 

I've opened up the 1st one and it looks like there are some broken traces in the flex board (whatever it's called).

 

On the 2nd one, I managed to get every keypad button working, start, pause, reset and 3 of the 4 FIRE1/FIRE2 working with some deoxit and IPA scrubbing of the flex board and the carbon contact pads plus the teeth that you insert into the plug inside.

 

Now that I have at least one controller with a working Start button, I'll get to the other two to see what their deal is.

[RockLobster]

1 hour ago, BIGHMW said:

Sounds like we have a newcomer the the 5200 world (WELCOME!  ),

Yes I am!    I'm on my path to collect all the consoles I didn't have growing up.

 

I went from looking for a good deal on a 5200 to now having bought 3x 4port 5200's, trackball and 4 of these controllers through 3 separate purchases.   

 

It all started with a Spring Break road trip where one of the local retro stores had a 5x cartridge for $10 deal so I picked up like 15+ 5200 carts without a console to play them hahaha.

 

1 hour ago, BIGHMW said:

it may be time to put him through Best Electronics ordering procedure 101 for those never-fail Rev. 10 gold flex circuits

Why, I'm glad you brought this up!   Googling anything controller related brought me to that site eventually.   I hope I don't offend anyone but viewing and trying to navigate that site almost gave my eyes cancer.

 

Where do you even find how much those kits are, versions and prices?   

 

I see all this 1990's text about things GOLD GOLD GOLD and WE'VE RUN OUT OF XXX!   But couldn't find a list of things I can buy.

 

 

[RockLobster]

Another related question...

 

Is there a seller of these adapters that allow you to use other controllers?   What is the general consensus on how well they work?   

 

I understand that some games that expect an analog stick may work weirdly or not at all.  One surprise I discovered was how Gorf and Galaxian has variable speeds for moving the ship!  I don't know how I feel about that but am curious about how a digital adaptation would be like for these games.   ...like would pressing a direction be super fast, super slow or ___? 

http://www.grandideastudio.com/redemption-controller-adapter/

 

https://retrogameboyz.com/products/atari-5200-db15-to-db9-adapter-with-keypad-sega-genesis-amiga-amstrad-commodore-joystick-pad?variant=39399140720695

[BIGHMW]

36 minutes ago, RockLobster said:

Another related question...

 

Is there a seller of these adapters that allow you to use other controllers?   What is the general consensus on how well they work?   

 

I understand that some games that expect an analog stick may work weirdly or not at all.  One surprise I discovered was how Gorf and Galaxian has variable speeds for moving the ship!  I don't know how I feel about that but am curious about how a digital adaptation would be like for these games.   ...like would pressing a direction be super fast, super slow or ___? 

http://www.grandideastudio.com/redemption-controller-adapter/

 

https://retrogameboyz.com/products/atari-5200-db15-to-db9-adapter-with-keypad-sega-genesis-amiga-amstrad-commodore-joystick-pad?variant=39399140720695

Here is an updated site to where you can get them again!!!

 

https://nimbleswitch.com/shop/atari-5200-redemption-adapter-2023-reissue

 

 

[RB5200]

Best Elec. Pricing

 

Rev 10 gold mylar- $20.95 ea. Min. Order - 2

 

Numeric gold keypad $7.00 ea.

 

Auxillary gold keypad (start,pause,reset) - $5.00 ea.

 

Gold Fire buttons - $7.00 ea. - 2 req.

 

So basically $47.00 per controller for complete gold conversion.

 

I also have all this in stock if your interested. Just PM

Edited July 2, 2023 by RB5200

[RockLobster]

1 hour ago, BIGHMW said:

Here is an updated site

Thanks, would you happen to know answers to some of the questions about this and the other one?  

[RockLobster]

42 minutes ago, RB5200 said:

I also have all this in stock if your interested. Just PM

thank you!   is the Rev 10 gold mylar option the kit that has all the parts or just the flex circuit?

[RB5200]

23 minutes ago, RockLobster said:

thank you!   is the Rev 10 gold mylar option the kit that has all the parts or just the flex circuit?

Just the flex circuit

They are $20.95 ea. And best has a min. Order of 2 of this item.

[+x=usr(1536)]

1 hour ago, RB5200 said:

Best Elec. Pricing

 

Rev 10 gold mylar- $20.95 ea. Min. Order - 2

 

Numeric gold keypad $7.00 ea.

 

Auxillary gold keypad (start,pause,reset) - $5.00 ea.

 

Gold Fire buttons - $7.00 ea. - 2 req.

 

So basically $47.00 per controller for complete gold conversion.

 

I also have all this in stock if your interested. Just PM

I'd recommend doing the mylar first (since that's a more-or-less inevitable failure item), seeing where things stand, and doing the keypads later if needed.  There are a number of ways to refurb the keypads on your own, and they'll work just fine with the mylar after that.

[phuzaxeman]

On 7/1/2023 at 5:59 PM, RockLobster said:

 One surprise I discovered was how Gorf and Galaxian has variable speeds for moving the ship!  I don't know how I feel about that but am curious about how a digital adaptation would be like for these games.   ...like would pressing a direction be super fast, super slow or ___? 

http://www.grandideastudio.com/redemption-controller-adapter/

 

https://retrogameboyz.com/products/atari-5200-db15-to-db9-adapter-with-keypad-sega-genesis-amiga-amstrad-commodore-joystick-pad?variant=39399140720695

On Galaxian, using the 5200 controls to control the ship speed is an advantage to maneuver around the missiles. The strategy and gameplay are different from the arcade. My scores were much lower when I used the digital stick. A digital adaption would be limiting (like the atari 8bit) because you only can move one speed.  I'm not sure how fast or slow the computer version works. 

[Giles N]

@RockLobster

For every 5200-game thats not absolutely dependent on analogue-stick: get something like this.

 

I’m not saying this as some covert advertiser: I say it from sympathy and out of my own painful … wris… uhm … memories of playing without thirdparty controllers…
 

 

 

[Flyindrew]

13 hours ago, Giles N said:

@RockLobster

For every 5200-game thats not absolutely dependent on analogue-stick: get something like this.

 

I’m not saying this as some covert advertiser: I say it from sympathy and out of my own painful … wris… uhm … memories of playing without thirdparty controllers…
 

 

 

I just got this controller. Some games its fantastic (Moon Patrol!), other games, it requires a bit of configuring (Pac Man). As Im a huge fan of the original 5200 controller, this is an excellent controller for me as an alternate.

Many of the 5200 controller issues, have nothing to do with the actual controllers. Alot of the 5200 connector ports accumulate corrosion over the years and can render a controller defective.

[BassGuitari]

It's refreshing to see an Atari 5200 enthusiast who has somehow managed to avoid the controller's reputation! 😄 😜

 

Unfortunately, it's true that faulty controllers are just a fact of life with the Atari 5200. Or at least a fact of past life, because ununfortunately, in most cases they're actually really easy to fix. There are the Best upgrade parts discussed above, and I've had great results with the tin foil method, which is exactly what it sounds like: use a hole punch on a piece of aluminum foil to make little aluminum discs, adhere them to the carbon contact pads on all the buttons, clean the flex circuit with your electronic contact cleaner of choice (or even just a pencil eraser), and reassemble.

[Giles N]

3 hours ago, Flyindrew said:

Many of the 5200 controller issues, have nothing to do with the actual controllers. Alot of the 5200 connector ports accumulate corrosion over the years and can render a controller defective.

That’s somewhat hard to believe - as I’ve gotten old controllers from the same period, who just seem to be of another world of quality.

 

Moreover, as to personal taste, I find the original controllers design sub-optimal to say the least.

 

Good to hear the retrogameboyz controllers works well with many games.

 

Hope someone will pick up on reverse-engineering the Command Control and make something similar, or just something like Edladdin and other Retrogameboyz’, just getting analogue, self-centring stick.

[RockLobster]

On 7/7/2023 at 12:11 AM, phuzaxeman said:

I'm not sure how fast or slow the computer version works. 

Sorry, no, I didn't mean comparing the speed of the 5200 version of Galaxian's player ship to a computer port.  I meant if I were to use one of the 5200 digital joystick adapters, which speed does it use when using a digital stick to play the 5200 Galaxian.   ...since a slight left (slower) would be interpreted the same as a full left (faster).   Which analog input value do the adapters choose for this game?

 

On 7/7/2023 at 4:13 PM, BassGuitari said:

It's refreshing to see an Atari 5200 enthusiast who has somehow managed to avoid the controller's reputation! 😄 😜

Hahhaha.  So I wouldn't say I've managed to avoid all of the commentary about 5200 controllers so much as I'm surprised just how bad it is!   I am also a new 5200 enthusiast.   I've been slowly going down the list, acquiring and setting up each system (not just on the shelf) so that I can play games as I read about them in 2023 or when I flip through old magazines.

 

On 7/7/2023 at 4:13 PM, BassGuitari said:

I've had great results with the tin foil method, which is exactly what it sounds like: use a hole punch on a piece of aluminum foil to make little aluminum discs, adhere them to the carbon contact pads on all the buttons

Since this posting, I managed to pick up a 5200 controller from a store for $10 so I figured that it's worth at least the parts.  Got home and BAM!  another dud!  hahaha.  That makes 5 controllers from 4 separate sources in different states where none of them worked.  I've since managed to fix one so we'll see how it goes once I spend time on the others.

 

Does the aluminum foil end up inadvertently pressing buttons / making contacts without presses?

 

On 7/7/2023 at 6:57 PM, Giles N said:

as to personal taste, I find the original controllers design sub-optimal to say the least.

of the Intellivision, ColecoVision and 5200 controllers, I like the feel and use of the 5200 ones the most.  

 

With the CV, it feels like you're fighting it each time.   

 

With the INTV, that disc pad is awful even if it has 16 directions and not just 8.

 

I find that I can deal with the analog nature of the sticks a whole lot better than the other two.

[Giles N]

1 hour ago, RockLobster said:

of the Intellivision, ColecoVision

Never had those. 
For the 5200, I’m really happy I got other 3rd party solutions to use.

The 5200 is an interesting thing in itself - trying to be both a continuation of the 2600 and that generation, while trying introduce new ways of playing games.

I just have to be honest here: most reviewers etc., says the wierdo original controller was one of its core problems as to commercial competition, and I think thats absolutely correct.

 

The hardware is pretty good and the in-market line-up of games, of good standard.

 

If people personally really digg-it, sure, fine. I won’t deny them that joy.

 

I just happen to think that if Atari had sold it with something 95% similar to the Wico Control Command + numerical box, from day 1, it would have immediately sold much, much more.

 

If they’d sold it with such s joystick and provided large stocks of 5200-to-2600 converter-pieces it may have become at least 1/3 the succcess of the 2600. 
(to this last claim, sure other factors would also come into play, which would include too much speculation to guess, but at least Atari would have had done their part right on the starting line)

[RockLobster]

11 minutes ago, Giles N said:

For the 5200, I’m really happy I got other 3rd party solutions to use.

I've emailed Retroboyz about that adapter but they've not responded.  Are they here?

[phuzaxeman]

6 hours ago, RockLobster said:

Sorry, no, I didn't mean comparing the speed of the 5200 version of Galaxian's player ship to a computer port.  I meant if I were to use one of the 5200 digital joystick adapters, which speed does it use when using a digital stick to play the 5200 Galaxian.   ...since a slight left (slower) would be interpreted the same as a full left (faster).   Which analog input value do the adapters choose for this game?

 

It looks like it goes to about medium fast.  That's pretty good.  But on the hard levels, going fast to the left and right ends of the screen is pretty important to stay alive. 

 

[Giles N]

6 hours ago, RockLobster said:

I've emailed Retroboyz about that adapter but they've not responded.  Are they here?

You couid go to eBay:

 

Type: Atari 5200 Wico Command Stick.

 

—

 

I think you can get 2 or 3 if you’re willing to pay 150-250$ (each, individual or stick + number-keyboard)

 

—

 

If I’m wrong, I may have encountered some dated items (sorry if that).

 

—

 

These sticks often also need a split-cable where you wire the split cable to the console, and one split to the joystick, the other to an original controller or keypad.

 

The Wico + original refurbished controller is my standard controller for the 5200.

It works very well with all games.

Arcade stick (a mod.) or digital jaguar-mod. joypad are the best for typical arcade games, platformers, but Wico is good with everything and perfect for games like Pole Position, Star Wars Arcade, Rescue on Fractalus etc.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Giles N

[RockLobster]

2 hours ago, phuzaxeman said:

It looks like it goes to about medium fast. 

Thanks for checking that out!

 

19 minutes ago, Giles N said:

You couid go to eBay:

 

Type: Atari 5200 Wico Command Stick.

 

Thanks but I don't want to use the Wico stick as the alternative stick.  I would like to use a number of them like that adapter allows.

 

Does anyone know if Retroboyz are here on Atariage?

[Giles N]

26 minutes ago, RockLobster said:

 I would like to use a number of them like that adapter allows.

You could start a new thread, specifically asking for people who’re willing and able to produce the type of adapters you require for a reasonable payment?

 

Over the years some have made limited runs of types of adapters, and they’re often rapidly sold out.

(Adapters can be made to use 90ies type PC-analogue joysticks).

 

If you get someone here to make one/some particularily for you, I dunno what thd price-tag would be.

 

Over the last 3 years or so, its come up many times what sort of 5200-controllers and adapters the AA-store could offer (like the 7800-arcade-sticks and the 7800-megadrive-controller-adapter), but I think the interest in 5200 stuff is either generally too low in comparison and in addition, the technical issues of proper functional 5200 design, much tougher to pull of with quality.

 

—

I don’t think retrogameboyz are frequently here.

I actually think they are a guy,ie is a guy, producing the heavier stuff (joystick-arcade-controllers) individually. Only joypads are sold by larger quantities on ebay.

He may have popped by to throw in a like or two.

I don’t see anyone using the retrogameboyz-name being here.

When I’ve bought stuff from him on ebay, he has communicated back.

Perhaps he’s on vacation,or swamped in production and will only answer when orders are placed. What do I know?

Edited July 10, 2023 by Giles N

[Giles N]

34 minutes ago, RockLobster said:

I would like to use a number of them like that adapter allows.

go to ebay and type:

 

Atari 5200 Controller Joystick Keypad Module DB15 DB9 Adapter Converter READ

 

 

This should get you to the thing I suspect (but don’t know), you want.

 

Scroll down to description, and read if this is the thing that’ll serve your need.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Giles N