Retro-bit Genesis 6-button controller only works in 3 button mode?

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I've mainly only been using the newer 6 button controllers made by Retro-bit a few years ago. On my Mega 7800, these controllers only appear to work in 2 button mode as the Z and X buttons don't seem to anything. Additionally, the mega 7800 LED shows up as the color pink/light purple vs Green or any of the other colors when I have one of these controllers plugged in?

 

It does work but only as a 3 button controller as I can still use the Start button to bring up the Break menu and the A and B buttons work as buttons 1 and 2 as expected. But yeah, something about these Retro-bit controllers make them not appear as full 6 button to the Mega 7800?

 

 

[SainT]

I’ve had another report of this. I did actually have one of these originally which I developed the adapter with initially, but it ended up failing after a couple of weeks (bad connection in the chip-on-board blob on the PCB), so I guess I’ve broken compatibility with these pads in 6 button mode somehow.

 

I’ll get another to investigate, but unfortunately the adapters are not firmware upgradable, so I won’t be able to fix any units out without return.

 

Its also been confirmed that these controllers do not work in 6 button mode on some other adapters, either. So there seems to be something slightly odd about the retro bit controllers. I’m assuming they work correctly with the megadrive!

[+DrVenkman]

Add the Hyperkin GN6 to the list of 6-button Genesis compatible controllers that don't work in 6-button mode. Sad, too, because for a bit over $10, it's a nicely-made, solid-feeling controller for not much money. These have a "Mode" button on them that I can't find any information about - not sure if that is supposed to change them from 3- to 6-button mode or what, but it does nothing when connected through the Mega7800 adapter. I need to connect it to my actual Genesis to see if that button does anything.

 

Anyway, possibly related to all of the above, I found this several-years-old thread by A8 hardware genius @mytek, with whom several of us have worked beta testing his reimagined A8-based systems (1088XEL/XLD, 576NUC+). I'm loathe to cut open my new controller but maybe if I buy a second one to keep using, I can use one as a guinea pig to experiment with. 

 

 

EDIT: Still can't figure out what the "MODE" button does but as a data point, the controller is recognized and works as a 6-button pad on my actual Genesis Model 1 in STREET FIGHER 2: CHAMPION EDITION. 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

The MODE button was on the original controllers and on the Retro-Bit ones. You are to press it as you power on the console to have the controller switcher over to 3button only mode for those games that weren't compatible with a 6 button controller. I think Ms. Pac-Man is one such game.

 

And yes @SainT the Retro-bit controller works great on my actual Genesis model 1 and in fact I like them so much I bought a second one to have on hand since my original 6 button controllers are getting long in the tooth obviously. I also need to mention that my actual 6 button Genesis controller from back in the day does indeed show as a 6 button controller plugged into the Mega 7800 as I'm getting a green light instantly when plugging it in. But yeah, the Retro-bit makes the LED turn pink when you have it inserted. I think it is a combo of the the red with a little bit of blue. 

 

Still works as a 3 button controller just fine but requires use of the Start button to do the save states or load from them. 

 

 

[+MrZarniwoop]

I can report the 8BitDo Retro Receiver for SEGA Genesis & Mega Drive plus an 8BitDo M30 Bluetooth Gamepad (a Sega Genesis-style wireless controller) is recognized as a 6-button controller on my Mega 7800. 

[SainT]

Interestingly there is an Amazon review saying the RetroBit controller has issues with the Mortal Kombat games (on the Mega Drive).

Edited August 8, 2023 by SainT

[Trebor]

4 hours ago, SainT said:

Interestingly there is an Amazon review saying the RetroBit controller has issues with the Mortal Kombat games (on the Mega Drive).

More info on the matter:

Quote

Mortal Kombat on the Genesis has problems working with many third party 6 button controllers and is only guaranteed to work on the proprietary Sega 6 button pad. It does seem to work with at least some "Interact" 6 button pads too. Doesn't work with the Ascii 6 button pad (at least some revisions), which is a shame.

 

Mortal Kombat CD fixed this problem.

 

Unfortunately, the new "Mortal Kombat Arcade Edition" is based on the original Genesis version and has these old problems again.

This is probably because the 6 button mapping is handled by a chip designed by Sega that is in the controller. If third party companies don't duplicate whatever that chip is doing EXACTLY, some games won't work.

 

Mortal Kombat is one of those.

 

This issue was well known 25 years ago, but almost everyone has forgotten about it.

However, some reported even experiencing the issue with an official Sega controller as well.  Though there may be some confusion on how the buttons are suppose to operate.  There are also different revisions of the cartridge ROM, which may have updates to the controller code in some instances, which probably adds another layer to the compatibility issue.

 

GamePro magazine performed a review in 1993 for Mortal Kombat, after the release of the 6-button controller, with one of the complaints being the game was designed to work with the 3-button controller.

 

The issue here is Mortal Kombat came out on 1992.  The 6 button controller release was in 1993.  It was during the same time as the release of Street Fighter II: Championship Edition.  There was a bundle package deal available, as the controller was designed and released primarily for it.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I don't play fighters like MK or SF so if those games do have issues with the retro-bit 6 button controllers I wouldn't know. Everything else I've played that supported the 6-button controller on my Genesis or using the mode button to switch it to 3-button mode has worked great though! 

 

I should try and power on the setup with the 7800GD with the mode button pressed to see if it comes up with the proper 3-button LED light and support doing so? It isn't that big a deal since the START button will still bring up the break menu pausing the game, and allowing you to still save states and load states that way.

 

 

[+DrVenkman]

7 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

I should try and power on the setup with the 7800GD with the mode button pressed to see if it comes up with the proper 3-button LED light and support doing so?

I tried a bunch of things like that with the Hyperkin GN6 and nothing changed - it is always recognized as a 3-button controller. However, on my Genesis Model 1, it is properly recognized as a 6-button controller for games like STREET FIGHTER II: CHAMPIONSHIP EDITION, so I know it works. Just not with the Mega7800. 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

9 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

I tried a bunch of things like that with the Hyperkin GN6 and nothing changed - it is always recognized as a 3-button controller. However, on my Genesis Model 1, it is properly recognized as a 6-button controller for games like STREET FIGHTER II: CHAMPIONSHIP EDITION, so I know it works. Just not with the Mega7800. 

Well the reto-bit does work as a 3-button controller just fine, it is just odd that the LED is showing up as a color that it shouldn't be is all. So I'm curious if the actual mode button held down as I power on the system will detect as a proper 3 button controller. Just not something I've tested since it was working otherwise.

 

[SainT]

On 8/5/2023 at 5:09 PM, -^CrossBow^- said:

But yeah, the Retro-bit makes the LED turn pink when you have it inserted. I think it is a combo of the the red with a little bit of blue. 

23 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Well the reto-bit does work as a 3-button controller just fine, it is just odd that the LED is showing up as a color that it shouldn't be is all. 

It's being detected as 3 button controller, and the colour is correct for this (magenta). For whatever reason, the Retro Bit controller doesn't like the way I'm reading 6 buttons and is only returning 3 button information. So as far as the adapter is concerned, it *is* a 3 button controller.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

9 minutes ago, SainT said:

It's being detected as 3 button controller, and the colour is correct for this (magenta). For whatever reason, the Retro Bit controller doesn't like the way I'm reading 6 buttons and is only returning 3 button information. So as far as the adapter is concerned, it *is* a 3 button controller.

I thought I was looking for an actual RED color so that is why I thought the color it was putting out was a bit strange. Guess I need to plug a legit 3 button to see if there is any difference in the LEDs color but I'm guessing not based on your statement above.

 

[SainT]

3 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

I thought I was looking for an actual RED color so that is why I thought the color it was putting out was a bit strange. Guess I need to plug a legit 3 button to see if there is any difference in the LEDs color but I'm guessing not based on your statement above.

Yep, what you are looking at is the 3 button colour.

 

Matching printed magenta and an RGB LED is far from accurate in hue!

[SainT]

An update on this. I bought a selection of modern 3rd party megadrive controllers. Some of them are absolutely shockingly poor quality, but that's a different issue.

 

I've now fixed the issue with the RetroBit controllers (and one other cheap 3rd party controller I bought), any new Mega7800 devices will play nicely in 6 button mode with these controllers.

[+MrZarniwoop]

Is there a way to update existing first run Mega7800 controllers?

[SainT]

On 9/8/2023 at 5:33 PM, MrZarniwoop said:

Is there a way to update existing first run Mega7800 controllers?

No, but if it’s an issue I will replace it (well, reprogram it) if returned to me.

[BrianC]

On 8/5/2023 at 11:27 AM, DrVenkman said:

Add the Hyperkin GN6 to the list of 6-button Genesis compatible controllers that don't work in 6-button mode. Sad, too, because for a bit over $10, it's a nicely-made, solid-feeling controller for not much money. These have a "Mode" button on them that I can't find any information about - not sure if that is supposed to change them from 3- to 6-button mode or what, but it does nothing when connected through the Mega7800 adapter. I need to connect it to my actual Genesis to see if that button does anything.

 

Anyway, possibly related to all of the above, I found this several-years-old thread by A8 hardware genius @mytek, with whom several of us have worked beta testing his reimagined A8-based systems (1088XEL/XLD, 576NUC+). I'm loathe to cut open my new controller but maybe if I buy a second one to keep using, I can use one as a guinea pig to experiment with. 

 

 

EDIT: Still can't figure out what the "MODE" button does but as a data point, the controller is recognized and works as a 6-button pad on my actual Genesis Model 1 in STREET FIGHER 2: CHAMPION EDITION. 

Mode is held down before startup to force 3 button mode, which usually works at it should, but the B button acts as pause in Forgotten Worlds on the Hyperkin when mode is held before startup. The game is still playable with auto turned on, but this isn't the correct behavior. Mode also works for character switching in Lost Vikings and turning on 6 button mode in Williams/Midway Arcade Classics. Forgotten Worlds often has odd behavior on third party 6 button controllers, even when they work well with other problematic games when mode is held before startup. 

Edited September 10, 2023 by BrianC

[SainT]

10 hours ago, BrianC said:

Mode is held down before startup to force 3 button mode, which usually works at it should, but the B button acts as pause in Forgotten Worlds on the Hyperkin when mode is held before startup. The game is still playable with auto turned on, but this isn't the correct behavior. Mode also works for character switching in Lost Vikings and turning on 6 button mode in Williams/Midway Arcade Classics. Forgotten Worlds often has odd behavior on third party 6 button controllers, even when they work well with other problematic games when mode is held before startup. 

There are issues polling some 3rd party pads, this can result is some weird things happening. I'm quite happy to reprogram and fix any units if people return them to me.

[+DrVenkman]

5 hours ago, SainT said:

There are issues polling some 3rd party pads, this can result is some weird things happening. I'm quite happy to reprogram and fix any units if people return them to me.

I’m going to just wait a few months for the next run of Mega 7800 adapters, then buy a second one. I wanted two in the first place but couldn’t the second during the initial release. After I have the updated unit, I’ll just keep the first one as a backup. Costs of shipping back and forth would probably not be worth it.  

[BrianC]

On 9/11/2023 at 4:31 AM, SainT said:

There are issues polling some 3rd party pads, this can result is some weird things happening. I'm quite happy to reprogram and fix any units if people return them to me.

oh. I was talking about on a Genesis. I don't have the Mega 7800 adapter (though I would like to buy one when they come back in stock). Still haven't been notified by Stone Age Gamer about them or the 7800 GD coming back in stock. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by BrianC

[SainT]

14 hours ago, BrianC said:

oh. I was talking about on a Genesis. I don't have the Mega 7800 adapter (though I would like to buy one when they come back in stock). Still haven't been notified by Stone Age Gamer about them or the 7800 GD coming back in stock. 

D'oh! Sorry, I should have read more carefully.

 

There is some odd behavior with some 3rd party pads (really really cheap nasty ones) which does lead to buttons doing unexpected things, I thought it was related to that. Some of the more recent test controllers I've bought (I went through everything I could find!) were so cheap you can press the dpad down in the center and it registers all directions as being pressed. 😬

[Jetboot Jack]

Odd question - I have a Mega 7800 and using it with an 8bitdo M30, works just fine with 7800 and the GD Cart or regular 7800 carts and 2600 carts

 

However if I boot up a harmony cart I get weird behaviour in menu and in games loaded via the harmony - up and down don't work properly...

 

If I use a CX-40 - it all works just fine...

 

@SainT - any ideas?

 

sTeVE

 

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Jetboot Jack

[SainT]

Interesting. The 7800 can communicate with the Mega7800 by writing to the joystick port in particular ways, however this can clash with things like the AtariVox. So if the Harmony is doing things to detect the AtariVox in the menu, this could be interfering with how the pads are being read. That's about the best explanation I have, as otherwise the Mega7800 just acts as a regular joystick.

[Jetboot Jack]

I also tried on a 2600 - same problem in the Harmony UI, but games play just fine 😞

 

sTeVE

[SainT]

If it’s just the UI and not games, it’s definitely to do with how the controller is being polled. I didn’t think the SNES2ATARI adapter clashed, but if it supports that (or other controller adapters), then that’s likely the cause.