Some more 8bpp 256-colour images on SNES

[Kirk_Johnston]

Now, here's another interesting take, where the image below is actually a combination of 8bpp and 4bpp tiles:

 

This is the 8bpp and 4bpp tiles separated onto their individual layers so you can see how the full image is constructed:

 

A nice way to get a lovely image that would look basically the same as a full 8bbp one to a casual observer but also save a bunch of VRAM for use otherwise.

 

Note: I've not taken the 4bpp palette from the 8bpp one here as I don't quite know how to do that, but you can imagine it would surely be possible to get the 4bpp palette colours from the 8bpp palette colours for basically the same result.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston

[+Biff Burgertime]

That pic in the middle... I bet the Genesis would be powerful enough to draw nipples on those breasts. Maybe even add a third boob entirely like the chick in Total Recall.

 

Just sayin'

 

Edit: Of course he edited his post within the 30s it took me to post mine. That was a solid 6/10 joke too, gone to waste. Ah well, maybe he'll add it back in by the time he's done with the 10+ edits and addendums he adds to every post he makes.

 

Edit 2: Turns out it wasn't an edit, he just double-posted which pushed my comment onto a different page than its target.,

 

Ah shit, he's got me mass-editing now... 

3 hours ago, Kirk_Johnston said:

Edited September 16, 2023 by Biff Burgertime

[Kirk_Johnston]

Actually this one should be an example of a combined 8bpp and 4bpp image where the 4bpp palette is taken from the 8bpp one:

 

So, yeah, same result.

 

And, just to be clear, none of these examples are optimized or even touched up. And they still don't use any HDMA, colour math, pixel blending and such either. So obviously they could look even better with some official SNES tools and some time to really polish everything.

 

Again, just trying to show how good these images can look on SNES with the hope that someone might be inspired to actually try doing something visually impressive like this in an actual SNES game at some point, in this case maybe some really cool choose your own adventure with stunning art throughout or whatever.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston

[Mittens0407]

37 minutes ago, Kirk_Johnston said:

Again, just trying to show how good these images can look on SNES with the hope that someone might be inspired to actually try doing something visually impressive like this in an actual SNES game at some point, in this case maybe some really cool choose your own adventure with stunning art throughout or whatever.

Who's going to be inspired? How many SNES devs hang out on AtariAge again? How can you inspire others to develop SNES games when you can't inspire yourself?

[+Biff Burgertime]

Maybe he's trying to inspire whichever AI drew these abominations to finish the job and add nipples next time.

 

[TrekkiesUnite118]

3 hours ago, Kirk_Johnston said:

Actually this one should be an example of a combined 8bpp and 4bpp image where the 4bpp palette is taken from the 8bpp one:

 

So, yeah, same result.

 

And, just to be clear, none of these examples are optimized or even touched up. And they still don't use any HDMA, colour math, pixel blending and such either. So obviously they could look even better with some official SNES tools and some time to really polish everything.

 

Again, just trying to show how good these images can look on SNES with the hope that someone might be inspired to actually try doing something visually impressive like this in an actual SNES game at some point, in this case maybe some really cool choose your own adventure with stunning art throughout or whatever.

What is the actual benefit of doing this? Since you'd need to scroll anyways you're not going to be trying to squeeze it all into VRAM, just what you need for what's on screen currently. From a game design stand point I can't see any reason you'd need to do this either just to display something like that. The only time I've seen something like this done is when part of a layer is always obscured by another so there's no point in wasting VRAM to store tiles that will never bee seen. This isn't that though.

 

Why don't you actually start coming up with interesting game design ideas and think about how you'd get them to work on the SNES? Don't start with having to use a specific mode or effect, think about your game idea first. The game design should drive how you use the hardware, not the other way around.

[turboxray]

9 hours ago, Kirk_Johnston said:

Now, here's another interesting take, where the image below is actually a combination of 8bpp and 4bpp tiles:

 

This is the 8bpp and 4bpp tiles separated onto their individual layers so you can see how the full image is constructed:

 

A nice way to get a lovely image that would look basically the same as a full 8bbp one to a casual observer but also save a bunch of VRAM for use otherwise.

 

Note: I've not taken the 4bpp palette from the 8bpp one here as I don't quite know how to do that, but you can imagine it would surely be possible to get the 4bpp palette colours from the 8bpp palette colours for basically the same result.

That's not going to work like that. You have ~253 colors for the 8bpp part, and another for ~112 colors for the 4bpp. You would need to have the 8 subpalettes of 15 colors first, and then substitute (back fill) the remaining 128 colors (in the sprite section of the palette) on top of that. I highly doubt you got 112 unique colors in the from 8 supbalettes in 4bpp sections (i.e. 112 unique colors out of 121 possible unique colors). It rarely works out that to be perfect/close. So I'm calling you out on that. If you're using Rildens tool, you need to post the 2nd palette containing the palette of colors in order and section. Simply because you can't be trusted with accurate results. I mean, you're already highly aware/sensitive of your past mistakes up using the wrong 24bpp images to represent 8bpp.. and yet you did it AGAIN in the "picture showcase demo".. again.. like how can you mess this stuff up. So, in my opinion, even showing simple pics like this - you can't be trusted to know what you're doing, so you need prove it. Post those 2nd palette images that Rilden's tool always provides you.

Like this:

 

 

 That said, your examples leave no room for sprite palettes unless they're supposed to rely on/be directly dependent on the background image (which is pretty limiting). 

 

 There's also no pixel pair blending on the SNES. Not sure what he means by this. Unless he's trying to describe color math between main and sub.

 

 I'm not knocking this approach (to save on vram), but actual accuracy of these "demo" images. I mean this is a technical discussion of what the snes can do, so it's critical to be accurate as possible.. because every "trick" comes with a trade-off. Context is extremely important. If you're making a demo rom for people to try out and "wow" over, then fine. But if it's a discussion, then let's be accurate and realistic. That said, it should also be clear what this (or anything) is trying to solve. Is this only trying to solve vram space? Because 8bpp destroys vram space. Is this trying to have sections with high fidelity color, but still enough vram to two BG layers? 

 

 I'd also like to point out that SNES could do a pseudo 6bpp tile layout. And you could do it in mode 1. No 8bpp needed. Less vram space used, full 8 subpalettes of 128 colors are available for sprites in this mode (unlike the stuff he's been posting), etc. I wonder if Kirk can figure that one out. Rilden's tool alone isn't going to help you here.

 

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by turboxray