What are the chances of mylar failing during shipping? Receiving unworking unit from AtariAge member

[Ricky Spanish]

I bought some OS rev.11 chips from a member here. They didn't work, meh, life goes on. I let him know,

told him I didn't want a refund, cause, you know, 40 year old machines. It's a gamble.

 

As for yours not working AFTER it was shipped. Could be the parcel service threw it into the truck or 

this or that. Even the best packaged materials can still be damaged.

 

Anyways, don't be so sinical or paranoid. And don't let this one minor thing prevent you from getting real hardware.

No matter how good emulators are, you can't beat real hardware !

[Ricky Spanish]

I bought some OS rev.11 chips from a member here. They didn't work, meh, life goes on. I let him know,

told him I didn't want a refund, cause, you know, 40 year old machines. It's a gamble.

 

As for yours not working AFTER it was shipped. Could be the parcel service threw it into the truck or 

this or that. Even the best packaged materials can still be damaged.

 

Anyways, don't be so sinical or paranoid. And don't let this one minor thing prevent you from getting real hardware.

No matter how good emulators are, you can't beat real hardware !

[Ricky Spanish]

I bought some OS rev.11 chips from a member here. They didn't work, meh, life goes on. I let him know,

told him I didn't want a refund, cause, you know, 40 year old machines. It's a gamble.

 

As for yours not working AFTER it was shipped. Could be the parcel service threw it into the truck or 

this or that. Even the best packaged materials can still be damaged.

 

Anyways, don't be so sinical or paranoid. And don't let this one minor thing prevent you from getting real hardware.

No matter how good emulators are, you can't beat real hardware !

[+mytek]

I had to kick my computer because I thought it was skipping

 

36 minutes ago, Ricky Spanish said:

As for yours not working AFTER it was shipped. Could be the parcel service threw it into the truck or 

this or that. Even the best packaged materials can still be damaged.

Yeah my feeling too. Although it could just be environmental changes caused by the trip from the seller to the buyer. I also found a good article that goes into some detail about the mylar, the LED, and the console keys that might very well apply in this case, and provides some insight into how to fix the problem. EDIT: the LED problem was also mentioned earlier in this thread.

 

https://maniana.net/atari/extending-life-span-of-your-8bit-atari-mylar/

[E474]

23 hours ago, mytek said:

I guess if you are a Super Tech and very familiar with the machine it could be done in real time, but yes for most of us it would be good to edit out the boring parts

 

I just meant leave the cameras rolling to collect the video, and edit out the boring bits/dead ends of the investigation (though they might be useful viewing as showing how to rule out something is also quite useful). Obviously you could do a live-stream, but then you'd probably get "'Your tea's ready" type interruptions.

[E474]

On 8/26/2023 at 5:19 PM, x=usr(1536) said:

This is good advice, but I'd add one caveat to it: practice first.

 

What I mean by this is that picking up a bag of junk electronics from eBay or the like that can be soldered, desoldered, and generally abused before diving in to the broken machine that actually needs repair is a good idea.  Not saying this to discourage anyone from doing their own work by any means, but (and I speak from experience on this) it's really easy to make things much worse in the process of attempting to make them better if you're unfamiliar with how to undertake diagnosis and repair, or haven't been at it for some time.

 

Also, a quick refresher on first aid for burns would be wise, I'm walking round with a finger wrapped in cling film at the moment.

[deffroe]

9 minutes ago, E474 said:

Also, a quick refresher on first aid for burns would be wise, I'm walking round with a finger wrapped in cling film at the moment.

top Tip....DON'T touch the hot bit!!🥸😁

[+x=usr(1536)]

1 hour ago, E474 said:

Also, a quick refresher on first aid for burns would be wise, I'm walking round with a finger wrapped in cling film at the moment.

Completely understood; I have a burn scar on my left arm from where I brushed up against an iron that was laying horizontally on the table.

 

That was the point where I stopped being lazy about returning it to the stand.

[E474]

1 hour ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Completely understood; I have a burn scar on my left arm from where I brushed up against an iron that was laying horizontally on the table.

 

That was the point where I stopped being lazy about returning it to the stand.

 

It was even more annoying than that, I'd done all the soldering, but was giving the tip a good cleaning (I had watched a few Youtube videos on the subject, as it was not something I had been good at, and it was obvious it needed doing). I was concentrating on cleaning the tip, and somehow managed to get the shaft of the iron (that bit's hot too) on a finger tip.

[+mytek]

Aloe Vera is probably one of the best first aid treatments for a burn. Just lay it on thick multiple times the first day, and usually by the next day things are much better. It helps retain moisture which is badly needed after getting a burn. Good for sunburns too.

[E474]

8 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Completely understood; I have a burn scar on my left arm from where I brushed up against an iron that was laying horizontally on the table.

 

That was the point where I stopped being lazy about returning it to the stand.

 

-- Sorry to hear about the arm by the way, just a bit caught up with my own situation!

 

  Have ditched the cling film and am just using a big plaster, but curious to see how it goes over the next few days.

[+Stephen]

9 hours ago, deffroe said:

top Tip....DON'T touch the hot bit!!🥸😁

Not according to documentation I've found online!

[+mytek]

I got back in town last night and found a package with the problematic 65XE on my doorstep. This was sent to me by the OP of this thread after I paid him $133 (which included shipping and a new keyboard mylar). The shipping was relatively cheap at $10 since both the OP and I live in California (southern/northern), so the actual price I paid for the contents was $123, and the OP had also tossed in a Star Raiders and Centipede cart.  I feel the OP was made whole again considering that the original seller refunded him $30 to go towards the replacement mylar, which I think the OP said it cost him around $22 (it was $24 and change all together, so I gave him $25) including shipping which makes sense with it coming from TBA in the same state (TBA Mylar).

 

In the original deal the OP paid $100 (which I think included shipping) to the seller of the 65XE, but after factoring in the $30 refund and the actual cost of getting a new mylar, he ended up pretty close to $95 out of pocket. But of course I got two carts as well thrown in on my deal, hence the extra $30+ dollars I paid

 

Unfortunately the mylar was a bit worse for wear after the trip. It had been folded in half and placed in a ziplock bag that was considerably smaller than the unfolded mylar and was not protected by anything else. So it had a slight crease across the middle which is probably no biggie, but unfortunately due to the way it was packed in with the computer, PSU, and loose carts it also had a few holes as if something had punctured it. I think if it had been me, I would have sandwiched it in between two pieces of stiff cardboard.

 

I don't think the damage is so severe that it wouldn't still work, but until I try to use it I really don't know for sure.

 

 

 

So I set up the computer plugged it in and sure enough only the console keys (Start, Select, Option) were not working. I opened it up, disconnected the keyboard and quickly took a piece of wire and jumpered between pin 3 and pins 21, 22, and 23 on the keyboard connector one at a time. All the console keys worked properly while performing this test.

 

I took out an ohmmeter and checked across the surface of the mylar fingers, and found it difficult to get reliable contact. So I figured what the heck let me try something a bit unusual. I took some ScotchBrite to the last 4 fingers and very lightly took off just the upper coating.

Then I put the keyboard back into the machine, plugged it in, and gave it test.

 

👍👍👍👍 Four Thumbs Up!  It works like a champ.

 

Sorry no video, but it would have taken far longer to do that than to just take a couple of photos along the way. The whole process still took me well over 3 hours, including writing this up. And I was suppose to do something else for a friend today, which it looks like that unfortunately will take yet another day   It's not good when I get Atari gear in the mail - totally distracts me.

 

BTW this 65XE is in beautiful condition, and remarkably its keyboard feels really frickin good, very much like something one would associate with the 600/800XL series. I checked it against a couple of XEGS keyboards I had laying around and the difference is night and day, with the XEGS having that well known mushy XE feel.

[ClausB]

Congrats! Nice of you to help that guy out. Least he could have done was to pack it properly.

[adam242]

1 hour ago, mytek said:

Unfortunately the mylar was a bit worse for wear after the trip. It had been folded in half and placed in a ziplock bag that was considerably smaller than the unfolded mylar and was not protected by anything else. So it had a slight crease across the middle which is probably no biggie, but unfortunately due to the way it was packed in with the computer, PSU, and loose carts it also had a few holes as if something had punctured it. I think if it had been me, I would have sandwiched it in between two pieces of stiff cardboard.

 

You've got to be kidding.

[reifsnyderb]

1 hour ago, mytek said:

Unfortunately the mylar was a bit worse for wear after the trip. It had been folded in half and placed in a ziplock bag that was considerably smaller than the unfolded mylar and was not protected by anything else. So it had a slight crease across the middle which is probably no biggie, but unfortunately due to the way it was packed in with the computer, PSU, and loose carts it also had a few holes as if something had punctured it. I think if it had been me, I would have sandwiched it in between two pieces of stiff cardboard.

Unreal.   😞😞😞😞

[+warerat]

I would immediately ask for a refund for the damaged mylar that was carelessly packed and post in the bad trader thread.  🤣

 

Glad you got it squared away with something simple.

 

 

[+mytek]

2 hours ago, warerat said:

I would immediately ask for a refund for the damaged mylar that was carelessly packed and post in the bad trader thread.  🤣

Well it would be kinda fitting based on how this topic started out, but that's not my way. Besides I didn't need it after all

 

2 hours ago, warerat said:

Glad you got it squared away with something simple.

Yeah I suspected it would be simple, and even tried to steer the OP down that path with some suggested diagnostics, but nothing ever came of that and then he abruptly threw in the towel. I'm glad that it had a happy ending, at least for me. And I gotta say this unit turned out to be a diamond in the rough, and not even that rough. The price you were asking for the condition of this machine was very generous on your part. And I really do love the keyboard feel on this guy, which has me blown away with how good it is. Was this ever modified, because all the XE keyboards I've ever tried in the past were totally mush city?

 

The only thing I plan to do to it besides use it, will be to give the key caps an Oxi-Clean treatment, although they aren't very yellowed. After this is done the unit will look like brand new once again. And I might even pop in one of my UGV boards to really make the video shine, but I'll do it in a none destructive way, or in other words something that can be easily reversed (no extra or modified holes in the case).

[donjn]

FYI, the mylar was delivered to me folded in a ziplock bag.
I should have done a youtube unboxing video of it the way people think of me here..

 

Edited September 2, 2023 by donjn

[+mytek]

On 8/31/2023 at 5:42 PM, ClausB said:

Congrats! Nice of you to help that guy out. Least he could have done was to pack it properly.

To be fair it was packed very well, with several layers of bubble wrap around the computer, and crumpled paper around that. The two carts and the PSU which BTW was one of those small switchers from 8-Bit Classics were sitting underneath the computer along with the mylar. Most of that stuff is very light, not at all like the original factory supplied PSU so I think the OP really did try to do a good job packing it for shipment, and it wasn't really going all that far. And without knowing the back story on how the mylar came to the OP, I just thought it odd how it got shipped to me and obviously it was damaged when I got it, hence the reason I even brought it up.

 

As I mentioned when it comes to shipping stuff like this I would have treated it the same way I do for photos, and sandwiched it between two stiff over size pieces of cardboard before placing it in the shipping box. Of course I had to learn this from experience same as everyone else, and made a few mistakes in my early years when shipping things to customers back when I was doing the eBay thing.

[+MacRorie]

13 hours ago, donjn said:

FYI, the mylar was delivered to me folded in a ziplock bag.
I should have done a youtube unboxing video of it the way people think of me here..

 

Those $14.99 mylars are shipped by themselves in 9x7x3” box with the the gallon ziploc bag ballooned up to prevent crushing during shipment. In the 100s of mylars shipped, none have become creased and certainly none have had holes put in them. 
 

Edit:  All of this could have been avoided by putting the mylar in the box it came in and putting that in with the 65XE. 

[donjn]

3 hours ago, MacRorie said:

Those $14.99 mylars are shipped by themselves in 9x7x3” box with the the gallon ziploc bag ballooned up to prevent crushing during shipment. In the 100s of mylars shipped, none have become creased and certainly none have had holes put in them. 
 

Edit:  All of this could have been avoided by putting the mylar in the box it came in and putting that in with the 65XE. 

Its a two layer mylar and I did notice glue in the middle. In shipping the glue could have come loose, pulling and creating a hole.

[+mytek]

1 hour ago, donjn said:

Its a two layer mylar and I did notice glue in the middle. In shipping the glue could have come loose, pulling and creating a hole.

Yes it does kinda look like there might have been two glue spots, because the holes have rough edges like something that was glued and then ripped apart. However I found no signs of the glue spots in the zip lock bag

 

 

@MacRorie is this consistent with the mylars you sell? Are the two halves and/or the middle separator sheet glued together?

[reifsnyderb]

31 minutes ago, mytek said:

Yes it does kinda look like there might have been two glue spots, because the holes have rough edges like something that was glued and then ripped apart. However I found no signs of the glue spots in the zip lock bag

 

 

@MacRorie is this consistent with the mylars you sell? Are the two halves and/or the middle separator sheet glued together?

That looks like they are still usable as only the mylar is torn.

[+MacRorie]

On 9/2/2023 at 2:34 PM, mytek said:

 

 

@MacRorie is this consistent with the mylars you sell? Are the two halves and/or the middle separator sheet glued together?

There is no glue anywhere on them. Period. They do not come with glue. We do not add glue to them. 

EDIT: I am not at my shop right now so I cannot physically verify this right at the moment, but to the best of my recollection, there never has been any glue holding it together. It is possible, although not probable, that there is glue on them and in shipping hundreds of them, I have never noticed glue.
 

EDIT TWO:  Nope, no glue.  However, they are fused together at that point.  So, my thought is this:  Someone (or something) had to pull apart the two pieces.

 

On a more probable note, the mylar is held into place by pegs in the keyboard case. It is my recollection that those holes are where the pegs are located. If it was forced into place, it could have resulted in damaged during an install attempt 

 

THIS IS ALL CONJECTURE ON MY PART and should be taken with a very small grain of salt. 

 

So, let's put this to bed, shall we?  Someone (or something) pulled the two sheets apart. It could have been a very small gremlin inside of the shipping box or a very large gremlin outside of the shipping box.  You can place your bets where you will.

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by MacRorie
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