The Atari 2600+ is live for preorders!

[Dr Karnov]

If the 2600+ has trouble with newer homebrew titles, is it likely that Sirius and Plutos would still run okay?

[turbo graphics 220]

On 9/13/2023 at 2:28 AM, Flojomojo said:

That's cool. Just beware of overdoing it!

I have never seen any evidence of this ever happening in real life. I have witnessed newer generations playing old games on compilations and mobile, they tend to like games that a lot of us might not give much consideration to but has something interesting about it.

 

I would like to make 2600 games that work on this system that also use the arm like in the harmony. I wonder if a new type of bankswitching could be created that uses the arm that would be easy for this system to detect. You could have a sort of header in a specific place in the first page to tell the dumper how many pages your rom uses and if the arm should be emulated. I haven't programmed the arm yet so I'm not sure if the 6507 is supposed to upload the payload to the arm after start up or another way.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

20 minutes ago, turbo graphics 220 said:

I would like to make 2600 games that work on this system that also use the arm like in the harmony. I wonder if a new type of bankswitching could be created that uses the arm that would be easy for this system to detect. You could have a sort of header in a specific place in the first page to tell the dumper how many pages your rom uses and if the arm should be emulated. I haven't programmed the arm yet so I'm not sure if the 6507 is supposed to upload the payload to the arm after start up or another way.

The problem is not the detection, but that an ARM cart contains a data, which is only internally used. Which means the dumper never "sees" this data, so it cannot be dumped.

[desiv]

11 hours ago, DirtyHairy said:

Pitfall II cannot be dumped easily. The DPC contains sprite data in ROM, inaccessible via the VCS bus.

I suppose a solution in software to that would be to "predump" Pitfall II on the system.

Then when someone inserts the cart, the software just plays from the internal version rather than trying to dump it from the cart.

 

This trick would obviously only work on games known and prepped before the system is released...

[+jgkspsx]

45 minutes ago, Dr Karnov said:

If the 2600+ has trouble with newer homebrew titles, is it likely that Sirius and Plutos would still run okay?

Yes, those are fine. The 2600+ should only have problems with carts that use novel bankswitching approaches (like Pitfall II) or custom hardware chips (like multicarts or Rikki & Vikki).

 

Presumably the 7800 emulator will have emulation support for the POKEY so those should be okay.

[+jgkspsx]

1 minute ago, desiv said:

I suppose a solution in software to that would be to "predump" Pitfall II on the system.

That would be a problem - that is copyrighted ip and would be illegal to include.

[desiv]

3 minutes ago, jgkspsx said:

That would be a problem - that is copyrighted ip and would be illegal to include.

Don't disagree that would have to be licensed ahead of time...

And of course Stella (or some other emulator) would have to be able to play it...

Not saying it will happen, just that it is a possible way around the issue...

 

As a side note:  I have my 7800 right here with it's Cuttle Cart II... and Pitfall II cart as the only two carts I generally use.

Edited September 13, 2023 by desiv

[Dr Karnov]

 

Quite a good mini Q&A with an Atari guy about the 2600+

[Blinky]

On 9/12/2023 at 12:13 PM, DirtyHairy said:

Cost, I'm pretty sure.

I'm not sure it was just cost.

The dipswitches  and required pull up/down resistors, the tooling to punch a hole in the case or a new mold will increase costs. In case of the 10 in 1 and 4 in 1 carts which only use non bankswitched roms those cost are compensated by not needing a (programmed) logic chip. But when there will also be multicarts  with bankswitched rom then a logic chip would be required and additional game select logic would come at no additional costs.

However design wise, adding some dipswitches is way easier and faster than developing the game select logic, the menu and the emulator support.

I think the limited development time was also important for the decision.

IMO Saying it was done for authenticity and novelty is just a nice PR answer. Any other answer would have reased more questions.

If authenticity and novelty was the real reason then I'd expect the dip switches to be at a more convenient location then they are now but that would increase costs.





 

[Albert]

22 minutes ago, Dr Karnov said:

 

Quite a good mini Q&A with an Atari guy about the 2600+

That's the same Atari guy who is chatting in the AtariAge + Atari Q&A thread (David Lowey). 

 

 ..Al

[zzip]

42 minutes ago, Blinky said:

I'm not sure it was just cost.

The dipswitches  and required pull up/down resistors, the tooling to punch a hole in the case or a new mold will increase costs. In case of the 10 in 1 and 4 in 1 carts which only use non bankswitched roms those cost are compensated by not needing a (programmed) logic chip. But when there will also be multicarts  with bankswitched rom then a logic chip would be required and additional game select logic would come at no additional costs.

However design wise, adding some dipswitches is way easier and faster than developing the game select logic, the menu and the emulator support.

I think the limited development time was also important for the decision.

Dip switches can be annoying, especially if you have large fingers like me.

 

Back in the 80s, XONOX found a low-tech way to put multiple games on cart,  the Double-ender:

 

So I present the 4-ender  

 

And 10-ender for the 10-in-1 games,  it comes in a pizza box 

 

 

 

 

[BassGuitari]

1 hour ago, Dr Karnov said:

 

Quite a good mini Q&A with an Atari guy about the 2600+

Why do people still use the Bell Bottom logo for their video thumbnails?

 

I kind of like the DIP switches, actually. My immediate reaction was that it was a surprising (and kind of bold) move putting DIP switches on a multicart produced in the 2020s, but that it's also (probably unwittingly?) a nod to multicarts of yore. Full disclosure, though: I like them a lot less in practice. 😜 But I still appreciate their presence here in an illogical warm-fuzzy kind of way.

[Albert]

While I 

Just now, BassGuitari said:

Why do people still use the Bell Bottom logo for their video thumbnails?

I know, I don't like that logo!  But it was an official logo for a time.  I'm glad the company abandoned that one...

1 minute ago, BassGuitari said:

I kind of like the DIP switches, actually. My immediate reaction was that it was a surprising (and kind of bold) move putting DIP switches on a multicart produced in the 2020s, but that it's also (probably unwittingly?) a nod to multicarts of yore. Full disclosure, though: I like them a lot less in practice. 😜 But I still appreciate their presence here in an illogical warm-fuzzy kind of way.

I do think they are cool, only because I'm old now and dip switches were used for many devices back in the day (you were certainly familiar with them if you owned any arcade games!)  Heck, we have dip switches today in the AtariVox+. 

 

 

Also, since you are kindly reading my message, here's a nice photo of the dip switches on the back of one of these new cartridges: 

 

 

 ..Al

[Dr Karnov]

2 minutes ago, Albert said:

While I 

I know, I don't like that logo!  But it was an official logo for a time.  I'm glad the company abandoned that one...

I do think they are cool, only because I'm old now and dip switches were used for many devices back in the day (you were certainly familiar with them if you owned any arcade games!)  Heck, we have dip switches today in the AtariVox+. 

 

 

Also, since you are kindly reading my message, here's a nice photo of the dip switches on the back of one of these new cartridges: 

 

 

 ..Al

Looks nice!

[Blinky]

9 minutes ago, Albert said:

here's a nice photo of the dip switches on the back of one of these new cartridges:

That looks a lot better then I thought it would 🙂

[+wongojack]

Dip switches - keep a coffee stirrer or the rigid plastic tube that comes with compressed air nearby or even taped to the cart.  You can use the small opening to manipulate the dip switches and it is much easier than your fingernails.

 

Still kind of surprising to have them on this product IMO, but I get the feeling this is version zero.

[Albert]

8 minutes ago, Blinky said:

That looks a lot better then I thought it would 🙂

Yes, I like the recessed area, that is nicely done and does make it easier to toggle the switches. 

 

 ..Al

[Dionoid]

1 hour ago, Dr Karnov said:

 

Quite a good mini Q&A with an Atari guy about the 2600+

The Atari representative is called David [edit: last name Lowey, according to Al] and he shared some interesting things during the interview:

• Atari is testing out the 2600+ cart compatiblity by literally testing carts one by one, just buying every game they can find and also going to people with large cart libraries to test them out.
• The 2600+ build quality is amazing, according to David.
• Atari hopes to capture nostalgia with the Atari 2600+, which they think is a similar market to people buying new record players to play their old vinyl albums and then start to collect new albums too.
• They think the first ring of customers are probably going to be hardcore 2600 fans and collectors, but they also hope to attract younger gamers who are interested in playing retro games.
• With the launch just before the holidays Atari expects "generational gift giving" - i.e. son buys for dad, dad buys for gamer son, etc. They say it's an emotional product for a lot of people.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Dionoid

[+jgkspsx]

2 hours ago, zzip said:

And 10-ender for the 10-in-1 games,  it comes in a pizza box 

 

 

 

 

Somebody please make this! Although don’t forget to add structural stabilizing legs on each section that can fold down and take the strain off the cartridge slot.

[+5-11under]

1 hour ago, jgkspsx said:

Somebody please make this! Although don’t forget to add structural stabilizing legs on each section that can fold down and take the strain off the cartridge slot.

Alternately, you could d Rolodex style.

[Giles N]

On 9/12/2023 at 4:43 AM, Albert said:

I just grabbed a bunch of 2600 homebrew games that I have built, including three PAL games and one PAL60 game.  They all ran.  This includes:

 

- Juno First (PAL60) (32K F4)

- Star Fire (PAL) (8K F8)

- L.E.M. (16K F6)

- Lady Bug (16K F6)

- 2005 Minigame Multicart (32K F4)

- AStar (PAL) (4K)

- Go Fish (PAL) (8K F8)

- Colony 7 Trak-Ball (32K F4)

- Drive! (4K)

- Cannonhead Clash (4K)

 

The PAL games all ran with the proper colors, which was nice to see. 

 

Here are a few photos.  Excuse the mess, we are in the middle of packing as we will be moving soonish.

 

 

 

 

Juno First is a PAL50 game, and it ran fine, but the colors were wrong.  Which makes sense, since it's basically an NTSC game with the wrong color pallet. 

 

 ..Al

A line-up of 7800-games for us tonight…?

 

Could be nice to see if some of the prototypes and homebrews will work.

 

- - -

The following as general comment to the thread:

  

     (So, I’ll tag you also @TrogdarRobustojust to let you see it, since you may have some professional interests in getting a feel for user-interets)

 

 

I’m anyway hopeful that either software-updates or improved future-iterations of the 2600+ can make it fully compatible or 99,5% compatible.

 

As mentioned, I’m not eager to see some endless gradual line-up of 2600+ generations, but am quite understanding and fairly accepting of a economical and technological reality that may call for 2-3 iterations to get things just right. No-one forces me to buy anything; I just hope for Atari to be able to provide quality products that makes impacts and have both layman and professional reviewers to have very little to complain about. And of course, on that note - me as customer to have very little to complain about neither.

I hope such wishes doesn’t come across as just negativity. 
My intention is constructive input, even if in the space of constructive criticism.

I have lot of Atari-stuff, and for me this could provide a way to make it more lasting, easier to use, while not just going with a world PC-emulation which, frankly doesn’t have the same feel or vibe. 
 

Moreover, if this succeeds with a little bit of trial and error, it could - I hope it will - open doors to similar products running Atari 5200 and 8-bit Family software, and the same for Lynx + Jaguar. 
And if it all lines up neatly on some future heavy-duty Atari-Universal module for PolyMega, I think it would please a ton of older Atari-fans and catch the attention of newer retro-gamers and retro-collectors who’ve as to Sega and Nintendo have ‘played it all’.

And…it could - if executed properly - secure a meaningful platform for all Atari homebrews made, and secure a future for an expanding Atari-homebrew community, including both independent Atari Homebrews and Atari engaging in quality-Homebrew releases.

[GraffitiTavern]

One of the legitimate concerns I've heard about the 2600+ was the inability to play light gun games but them still being marked as functional. Is it possible to incorporate compatibility with the Sinden Lightguns or other modern lightguns like the Retro Shooter? https://sindenlightgun.com/ https://retroshooter.com/checkout-rs5/

[Dr Karnov]

Have they released any footage of Berzerk - Enhanced Edition? I understand that it's more enhanced than the previous enhanced version for sale on AtariAge

[donjn]

I’ve been thinking about this product lately, and it just does not make sense to me as a consumer.

By consumer, I am talking about someone outside of us here in AtariAge. Plenty of us I assume will purchase it and have uses for it.

 

Allow me...This thing costs $130 and it includes 10 games via a built-in game with dip switches.

1. If you don't own any Atari cartridges, how are you expected to grow your library without going to Ebay and overspending $60 on H.E.R.O. and $30 for games like Pitfall II (if that ever works BTW)?
2. If you do own a bunch of Atari games and held onto them, chances are you already have a way to play them and prefer them on a CRT TV.
3. If the system does become popular it raises the value of cartridges, makes them harder to find, and steers frustrated people back towards emulation. Not to mention what type of effect will all these old cartridges have on the 2600+ itself? Faster corrosion? Has someone done a test for physically sticking the cartridge in and out, in and out, hundreds and thousands of times? With a slot supporting two systems, does that make it more likely to fail?
4. Even if you are a hardcore Atari user, you most likely already have an Atari hooked up to a CRT or already own Atari Flashback 50th or even the Atari 50th collection. In other words, this has been sold to you before and before. How many times has Atari gotten you to purchase their games? I would bet most of us, at least 3 or 4 times.
5. You have given us the modern convenience of HDMI but forgoing a menu in place of dip switches. Teenagers who are into retro stuff prefer some of the "modern" takes on retro with things like "scanlines" "bezels" etc. Dip Switches are not going to move the needle.
6. If the dip switches are for the older crowd, take me for example. I am 53. Do I really want to spend $130 to have to put on my reading glasses and grab some pliers to change a game?
7. Atari 2600+ is using a Rockchip 3128 SOC, released in 2014. This is a 9-year-old chip, how smooth do you think Stella is going to run on this? I have tried the Atari Flashback 50th and several other ways of using Stella outside of a high end PC. Emulation on a weak chipset results in gameplay that is not as smooth as the original. 

I will throw in some positives along with suggestions

1. The size of the unit, being slightly smaller, was a great choice and I love that the Atari logo lights up.
2. It's nice to see the original CX40 being rebuilt and the quality looks good. Start and Select buttons towards the base would have been even better as some of us want to use our computer monitor for the 2600+ and selecting items via joystick (much like a mouse) would be great.
3. I think there should be a way to get multi-carts working or the mini USB have a way to load ROMs. My reasoning is this, people who go through the trouble of getting a Harmony Cart or loading an SD card or something with games are classic Atari fans, who most likely already have a lot of these games anyway. And for new fans like the younger audience, this gets them into the system faster, without going to Ebay to purchase dirty, older games that may or may not work.

I am not trying to be super negative here this is just how I feel.

Peace!

 

And P.S. I am about 50/50 on purchasing one myself, but also have my eye on the Atari Gamestation, which, weirdly might be better for me.

 

 

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by donjn

[+littaum]

I see all sorts of good deals on bulk Atari 2600 games on ebay, and even better deals on Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace.   Sure, you will likely not find H.E.R.O. or Pitfall II among them, but most likely the games people were familiar with back in the day.

 

From the posted interview from PAX, the Atari rep indicated they're going to try and market it similar to a "modern turntable for your old vinyl records".   Convenience and the path of least resistance to getting it set up are key.  I doubt the average person who would buy a 2600+ is even aware of things like the Harmony Cart or Stella (or even RF to coax adapters to get an actual 2600 or 7800 connected to a modern TV).  But they are probably aware of the tiny Atari with a "tiny TV" from Cracker Barrel or Target.