desiv Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, donjn said: What do you mean by that? Donation? This has been brought up over and over in this thread... Might be best to just search the thread for "Stella" rather than this get rehashed again... Actually, it was mostly in the AtariAge + Atari Q&A thread... If you search that one for "stella donation" you'll get a lot of info.... Edited September 19, 2023 by desiv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donjn Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, desiv said: This has been brought up over and over in this thread... Might be best to just search the thread for "Stella" rather than this get rehashed again... Actually, it was mostly in the AtariAge + Atari Q&A thread... If you search that one for "stella donation" you'll get a lot of info.... I see you edited your post instead of the shotgun response akin to "google it"... I think the word donation threw me off. Yeah, I assumed Stella would get some sort of payment for the 2600+. Did Retron donate to Stella? Edited September 19, 2023 by donjn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiv Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 Just now, donjn said: I see you edited your post instead of the shotgun response akin to "google it"... Yeah, I try to make sure it is as simple to find as I think, and it generally isn't (OK, almost never! 🙂 ) and then I try to find out where it is and search terms and I come back to clarify... I could (should) probably do that all first, but I'm both impulsive and like to follow up... And I rarely learn.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Stamos Mullet Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 6 hours ago, roots.genoa said: Yes, the real advantage of FPGA emulation is the lack of lag, either input lag and display lag, compared to software emulation, since the synchronicity between virtual components is usually more accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donjn Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 16 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said: It is, for some of us. I can't stand input lag. Luckily, Stella on PC has zero lag. But I do wonder about the Gamestation Pro and 2600+. If they introduce any lag what's the point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M-S Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 No it isn't, these are simply effects, there's no zero lag software emulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donjn Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 Just now, M-S said: No it isn't, these are simply effects, there's no zero lag software emulation. Well, technically, you are right. I am talking more about the "what's acceptable" level for all of us. Some are okay with a bit of lag, and some of us can't stand even a fraction of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roots.genoa Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 1 hour ago, John Stamos Mullet said: Yes. It doesn't change that much for 2600, but the difference is more significant for more powerful systems. That being said, I don't particularly care for lag myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Video Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 22 hours ago, Albert said: I have a copy of Pitfall II, but it doesn't work on a real 2600, so I cannot confirm one way or another yet. However, I doubt it's going to work right off the bat due to the nature of the additional DPC chip onboard the cartridge. That's not to say it won't work at some point, though. ..Al This, its exactly what improvement I'm talking about. In the 90's no emulator could run it, no most any updated one runs it perfect. I too consider pitfall 2 like halo (if you had to choose only one...like I could) this is the game that has to work, as most everything else will if this will. I fully expect it to not work out the box, but its popular enough a lot of people will push for improvement until it does. Outside pitfall 2, how about Star path supercharger? Though that mostly doesn't work due to physical dimensions. Or CBS games, the added ROM might be a problem. Oh, and xonox, again mostly for fitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donjn Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, Video said: This, its exactly what improvement I'm talking about. In the 90's no emulator could run it, no most any updated one runs it perfect. I too consider pitfall 2 like halo (if you had to choose only one...like I could) this is the game that has to work, as most everything else will if this will. I fully expect it to not work out the box, but its popular enough a lot of people will push for improvement until it does. Outside pitfall 2, how about Star path supercharger? Though that mostly doesn't work due to physical dimensions. Or CBS games, the added ROM might be a problem. Oh, and xonox, again mostly for fitting. I cant imagine anyone greenlighting this without Pitfall 2. That would need to be the first thing that is asked. If Pitfall 2 is not working, whats the point? Edited September 19, 2023 by donjn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiv Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 6 minutes ago, donjn said: I cant imagine anyone greenlighting this without Pitfall 2. That would need to be the first thing that is asked. If Pitfall 2 is not working, what's the point? I would think the point would be to play all the other games that work. (Except for also the light gun games, which won't work on an LCD type TV) While I like Pitfall II, it wouldn't have been near the first thing I asked about... I would love to see this unit work with Pitfall II and newer homebrews, and maybe even some way for lightgun games... But I don't see those not working as a showstopper for most people. I would think most people who plan on buying this would think, "Oh, that's a bummer. But at least almost all the other games work..." Or something like that... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, desiv said: I would think the point would be to play all the other games that work. (Except for also the light gun games, which won't work on an LCD type TV) Except if you have one of these. And an emulator that supports it. 2 minutes ago, desiv said: While I like Pitfall II, it wouldn't have been near the first thing I asked about... Same here. And IMO it is very unlike that it will work soon. Or ever. Well will find out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiv Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 6 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: Except if you have one of these. And an emulator that supports it. I know, those have me SO TEMPTED... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Cross Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 I ordered 6 homebrews for use with the 2600+ and they are Backfire, Drive, Bee Ball, A Roach in Space, Go Fish & Reindeer Rescue which all look like fun games... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, Crimson Cross said: I ordered 6 homebrews for use with the 2600+ and they are Backfire, Drive, Bee Ball, A Roach in Space, Go Fish & Reindeer Rescue which all look like fun games... I've already tried several of the above games and they work fine, and the ones I haven't tried yet should work fine as well. ..Al 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Kaboomer Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 On 9/16/2023 at 3:56 PM, John Stamos Mullet said: The reality is, it’s really hard to make a retro product like this that both: 1. costs low enough that casuals and impulse buyers jump on it. 2. satisfies the wants/expectations of the hardcore collectors/armchair critics without completely blowing that budget. While nobody likes to hear it, the casuals are a market where a healthy profit can be made. The Hardcores are not. While the hardcores may be more likely to buy it because they buy everything just because (and then complain about it after) they aren’t a big enough number to cater to, if it’s going to balloon the price past the point of profitability and driving the casuals away. And yet, using the Vinyl analogy from the Atari rep, there are still, however, $1K turntables which hardcore Vinyl collectors do purchase...so there is also niche markets that may be profitable as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles N Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Albert said: I've already tried several of the above games and they work fine, and the ones I haven't tried yet should work fine as well. ..Al Will you be testing 7800 titles anytime soon? Edited September 19, 2023 by Giles N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 1 minute ago, Giles N said: Will you be testing 7800 titles anytime soon? Yes. ..Al 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles N Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: 2 hours ago, desiv said: I would think the point would be to play all the other games that work. (Except for also the light gun games, which won't work on an LCD type TV) Except if you have one of these. And an emulator that supports it. So, it seems this system could use improvements to: (for both 2600 and 7800) - better hardware cart dumper(s) - cart-dumper(s) which will not be size or shape-limited (guess, only 2600-titles) - LCD light-gun (both 2600 and 7800) connection/compatibility (both software and hardware) - for 7800 games: upgrades for reading/running/playing games like Rikki and Vikki, and games using this Yamaha-sound chip - - - Seems almost like its called for anyway, to create an extra hardware module to deal with all these issues. (if my writing here feels general in tone, its because it is as much an open comment to this thread as questions/thoughts to what I quoted. Hoping of course either Atari staff or people with good knowledge concerning the issues will take notes and/or come with feedback) Edited September 19, 2023 by Giles N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiv Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 1 minute ago, Giles N said: Seems almost like its called for anyway, to create an extra hardware module to deal with all these issues. An optional module concept is interesting. I don't think it's realistic for this hardware at this point, but I like that concept... Because if adding all those features means the unit will cost $200+, then I think it's a no go. I think current price is at the top of the casual spending... So something optional for the smaller subset who would want it is interesting... Although, would that just be the SegaCD/32X model and back to a bad idea commercially? (obviously, selling consumer electronics is not something I know about... that said, I do love my SegaCD... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Cross Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 1 hour ago, Albert said: I've already tried several of the above games and they work fine, and the ones I haven't tried yet should work fine as well. ..Al Yep, I saw that you tried Go Fish & A Roach in Space most recently and A Roach in Space is one that I really want & glad it works... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 1 minute ago, Crimson Cross said: Yep, I saw that you tried Go Fish & A Roach in Space most recently and A Roach in Space is one that I really want & glad it works... Also played Bee-Ball and Reindeer Rescue. The other two games are both 4K games, so they should work fine as well. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bent_pin Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 Looking forward to playing Amoeba Jump on it in glorious HD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraffitiTavern Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 On 9/14/2023 at 1:11 AM, GraffitiTavern said: One of the legitimate concerns I've heard about the 2600+ was the inability to play light gun games but them still being marked as functional. Is it possible to incorporate compatibility with the Sinden Lightguns or other modern lightguns like the Retro Shooter? https://sindenlightgun.com/ https://retroshooter.com/checkout-rs5/ 3 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: Except if you have one of these. And an emulator that supports it. I also saw something called the RetroShooter? (link above) I do hope they update to support those. I don't think it's fair to ask for absolute compatibility with every game on a reasonably priced system, but I hope they update to support the maximum amount of games where possible. I care more about the homebrews here than Pitfall II, especially considering it is unlikely I will ever see a copy in the wild unless I go to some collector's convention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles N Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 (edited) 46 minutes ago, desiv said: I like that concept... Because if adding all those features means the unit will cost $200+, then I think it's a no go. I think current price is at the top of the casual spending... Actually, a separate hardware module would be sold as a separate pack, like the paddle-controllers. What it would look like, is one thing, but if it could connect to the 2600+ in an easy way, give room (almost literally) for all sorts of 2600 and 7800 physical carts, having better cart dumper, and come with a LCD lightgun, and perhaps 1 game using light-gun feature and 1 game using sound-chip beside the Pokey, it would already be its own ‘thing’; an add-on, like the paddle-controller-gamepack. It would as such, not necessarily - at first sell in huge amounts - but would pick up interest ( = sell more) as more and more people would discover the larger 2600 and 7800 scene (aftermarket games, homebrews). And I would guess that people considering to buy or not to buy, upon seeing the gaming-possibilities as both the 2600+ core-unit and extra controllers and modules would make it complete or near-complete, would get these things, and then perhaps become additional collectors and future Atari-release-customers. If you want to just sell an item to a guessed-upon number of potential buyers, or guesstimated by the mentioned casual-standard, you’ll sell about that amount. If you want future customers, you need something expansive or something that may hold the interest for a while. Particulary if one wants to have this as a retro-platform, planned to make people buy re-releases of physical 2600 and 7800 carts, or new official releases of new 2600 and 7800-games, again hardware-limitations is not what you want. You want things to work as broadly as possible, both backwards and into the future; homebrews, new releases, upgraded ‘old’ games. Edited September 20, 2023 by Giles N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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