AtariAge + Atari Q&A

[+OLD CS1]

7 hours ago, SIO2 said:

If my mother heard about it, everyone heard about it.

Normies ftw.

 

Regarding the 2600+ advice, I would love to start seeing unfinished prototypes get finished and distributed.  There were a lot of really promising titles out there we never got to see.

[Tickled_Pink]

13 hours ago, TrogdarRobusto said:

I don't see why not. If your concern is using "Atari" in the title, as far as I know as long as you aren't monetizing the brand without permission you are good to go. 

There is a company we use to scan the interwebs for people who sell counterfeit Atari goods or otherwise monetize our brand in some way. You'd be amazed at the volume of knock-off merch and hardware. 

I've shopped at AliExpress so, no. No, I wouldn't.

I like this version of yourselves. Where has it been all this time? We have seen some dodginess over the years, including some anti-community practices and companies allegedly not being paid for work, and that's what's helped to contribute to the distrust amongst the community. Pretty sure there was a thread some time ago about someone getting a ridiculous cease & desist from Atari, although I can't remember what it was about.

The 2600+ is the first product I've genuinely been interested in from the current company. My only quibble is that it doesn't look full-size and doesn't come in a 70's era box for the ultimate nostalgia injection. Berzerk was the first cart I bought for mine and so I'm definitely interested in the revamped copy. Wife has asked me what I want for Christmas. I couldn't think of anything. Now, I have some ideas. 🙂

Don't suppose you have a copy of My Horse and Me 2 lying about in the office, do you? 😂 Daughter used to have it years ago on the Wii and recently asked me to find another one. She's now 21. 🤦‍♂️

I remember some years ago, you had a competition for developers to come up with new versions of Atari IP for modern platforms. I'm sure there are some coders on AA who might be interested in getting involved in another one.

[TrogdarRobusto]

13 hours ago, peekb said:

For clarification, would "monetizing our brand" include selling a homebrew title with an Atari/Jaguar/Lynx/etc. logo on the box/manual/etc.?

That is a good question. I don't know the answer, honestly. I'll poke around and see if I can find out. 

[+TwentySixHundred]

First off a congratulations to Al, well done and a deserved weight lifted from you shoulders.

 

Im a little wary but trying to think positive about the change. I am hoping Atari will look into selling digital homebrew like Al has mentioned. I understand not everyone has the ability to get their game published. But i feel with a digital market many others can have that opportunity to sell their product. Even if they're sold on the VCS to be ran via emulation from their store for a percentage cut. I have two original 7800 projects im working on (large and small projects). Would be really exciting if Atari looked into this because it would really help with motivation.

 

Anyway guess time will tell

[zzip]

16 hours ago, CharlieChaplin said:

 

Maybe they will buy the Amiga brand, Amiga OS, etc. and finally release an Atari Amiga... ?!?

 

Right after they call Nintendo back and say "you know what?  Actually we DO want to distribute your Famicom in North America!"

 

 

 

 

[JasonACT]

10 hours ago, Albert said:

While I appreciate the discussion of comparing the 2600+ to the Retron 77 and other devices, that's beyond the scope of this thread.  Feel free to start a new discussion if this isn't already being discussed somewhere on AtariAge.

 

Thank you,

 

 ..Al

I'm not so sure it's beyond "the" scope here.  A Q&A thread begs the question, how is the new Atari going to monetise the acquisition, and this information dampens their ability to do so if what's being presented is true.  Of course, your request, in my mind, means this will be the only post I make about the topic, but it has now shaped my interpretation of what all this means.

[agradeneu]

12 minutes ago, TrogdarRobusto said:

That is a good question. I don't know the answer, honestly. I'll poke around and see if I can find out. 

In best case scenario, you will find out that the Atari Jaguar is public domain since 1999!

[+MrZarniwoop]

1 minute ago, JasonACT said:

how is the new Atari going to monetise the acquisition

If Atari bought AtariAge to directly monetize it, that would obviously destroy it. And be stupid, because there's really not much money to be made here as a fun, niche site and build-cartridges-on-demand store.

 

If this follows the approach they took with MobyGames, the intent appears to be a helping hand treated as a shrewd, inexpensive, marketing expense to support and reinforce the brand along with a community site.

[vitoco]

I've read this whole thread and I still don't know if this is good or bad for the community.

 

For sure it is good for @Albert, and I'm glad about him.

 

AA is (was?) not just a place to buy some excellent new homebrew. It is also the home of a huge community. This is a very nice community, with lots of people willing to share and to help others with the same interests, where there is no support from the (then unexisting) company which set the foundations. I rarely saw moderators taking actions, which speaks well about the community. I'm proud of being part of it.

 

The company is back, but the community goes far away from the company's limits. I really, really hope that this AA community won't be limited by new bounds from the company. Not understanding well the community could lead to a business failure.

 

With this move, Atari has a lot to win if it is well managed, and with Al and his experience on board, I hope it will also be a win-win for the community. Please do not screw it up!

 

 

 

[SIO2]

9 minutes ago, TrogdarRobusto said:

13 hours ago, peekb said:

For clarification, would "monetizing our brand" include selling a homebrew title with an Atari/Jaguar/Lynx/etc. logo on the box/manual/etc.?

In days past, it seemed this segment of the market was abandoned and fans started creating art for carts and boxes that mimicked the titles that they loved from the past.  Now that Atari is stepping back into the arena it seems to me proper to respect their logos and trademarks.

 

However, it would be nice to have some clear guidelines on this subject from Atari themselves.  When someone wants to distribute their homebrew it would be nice to have a way to mark it so the consumer can easily recognize what system it is designed to be used with.

 

Correct me if I am wrong but I think a line of text that says, "for play on Atari XXXX" is fair and doesn't violate Atari's rights.

 

[Rick Dangerous]

I saw the news on an article last night and immediately felt sick to my stomach. I could feel nearly 10 years of my life and times spent on here slipping away in an instant. 

 

I can tell you, having spent some time around corporate America, that this is not good news for us, the enthusiasts.  The bottom line is money, and getting more of it from people.  Mainly mainstream consumers, but also from us, the hobbyists.  The winners here are #1--Atari, #2 and to a much lesser extent, Albert.  I assume they made him an offer he couldn't refuse.

 

For us, the enthusiast.  It's a loss.  Already there are less homebrews available, the roms are gone, the Harmony cart is gone from the store.  It's a corporate site, not an enthusiasts site.  Companies are not so into free.  SUCH. A. BUMMER.  It's like when a company goes public and tries to drum up excitement among the employees about it....then a few months later the layoffs start inevitably happening because the shareholder is now number one.  Our layoff equivalent here are the freedoms and fun and creativity and sharing that took place on this site.

 

I don't blame Albert one bit; money is real, you can use it to take care of yourself and your family, for a better life, etc.  I might well have done the same thing.  For the community and this forum, I think its a huge and unfortunate blow.  Will give it a few months before final judgement, but as mentioned above, indicators are trending in the wrong direction.  

Edited September 8, 2023 by Rick Dangerous

[zzip]

15 hours ago, SmittyB said:

The rad ones do.

What about the L337 ones?

 

15 hours ago, TrogdarRobusto said:

No one from the infogrames era is involved in the company. I personally don't understand the mentality that the only valid Atari is the original Atari. But if it means anything, Nolan is an advisor to the company, we talk to him all the time. I personally speak with him a few times a year. He is a super interesting guy. We do see a spiritual connection between the original and what we are trying to accomplish. And we are Atari ... plain and simple.

By the same logic, the Jaguar, Lynx or even the 7800 wouldn't be real Atari consoles either since the company had already gone through ownership changes and mass layoffs by the time those released.   I'll judge Atari by the results,  not whether the same people are running it (most of whom would be retired by now anyway)

 

 

 

  

[m.o.terra kaesi]

for those who lament here and get stuck in nostalgic "everything is going down the drain" feelings:

1. Al certainly knows what he is doing. If it is good for Al, it is also good for Atariage, because Al IS 100% Atariage. Period.
2. there are enough reasons why Atariage can become even better (again):
- the website (store and forum) are definitely technically outdated
- It needs more manpower, as communication, shipping times and many other things have gone over the head. This was well felt in the last 48 months.
- Many project ideas that Al addressed in the past have been put on hold for a long time. New energy for them can now be released.
- Anything that brings more homebrews and more attention to them is primarily positive.

...the list goes on.

 

[Albert]

Just now, Rick Dangerous said:

For us, the enthusiast.  It's a loss.  Already there are less homebrews available, the roms are gone, the Harmony cart is gone from the store.  It's a corporate site, not an enthusiasts site.  Companies are not so into free.  SUCH. A. BUMMER.

I just want to be clear that this was going to happen regardless of whether or not I decided to work with Atari, and others can attest that I'd spoken to this needing to happen going back years now.  Many of the ROM links were already broken after I had to feverishly fix some issues with the games database several years ago, so I just made that formal and removed them entirely.  Those ROMs are on countless sites already, it's not necessary for AtariAge to host them. 

 

 ..Al

[Zoyous]

9 hours ago, Stephen said:

This pretty much sums it up for me.  The multiple lawsuits, going after fan sites, and then hearing Minter himself was not only sued, but prevented from releasing a working VR version of TxK / Tempest 4000, well that is just unforgivable.  There is absolutely nothing that this iteration of Atari can do, to wipe that stain away.

You know since that time, Minter has worked with Atari SA on Tempest 4000 and Akka Arrh?

[Albert]

2 minutes ago, m.o.terra kaesi said:

- the website (store and forum) are definitely technically outdated

Just to address this, we're running the latest version of the Invision Community software, and this basically as modern and up-to-date as forum software gets.  The store, though, you're right about that, and that's one of the reasons I am extraordinarily eager to get over to a new ecommerce platform.  The games database is also very outdated and needs some serious help, and this is something I've discussed with Atari and they are eager to assist with that endeavor, in the same way the huge update to the MobyGames database that went live recently.

 

 ..Al

[+Karl G]

6 minutes ago, Rick Dangerous said:

For us, the enthusiast.  It's a loss.  Already there are less homebrews available, the roms are gone, the Harmony cart is gone from the store.  It's a corporate site, not an enthusiasts site.  Companies are not so into free.  SUCH. A. BUMMER.  It's like when a company goes public and tries to drum up excitement among the employees about it....then a few months later the layoffs start inevitably happening because the shareholder is now number one.  Our layoff equivalent here are the freedoms and fun and creativity and sharing that took place on this site.

In my mind, the unlicensed ports were bound to go away at some point or another. We are more visible and less than a niche community than before, and that is a consequence of such visibility. As far as the Harmony cart goes, I see it still available, and they have said that its sale will not be affected by this:

 

https://harmony.atariage.com/Site/Order.html

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

7 minutes ago, m.o.terra kaesi said:

1. Al certainly knows what he is doing. If it is good for Al, it is also good for Atariage, because Al IS 100% Atariage. Period.

This is an overly broad assumption. Period.

[Clint Thompson]

17 minutes ago, SIO2 said:

In days past, it seemed this segment of the market was abandoned and fans started creating art for carts and boxes that mimicked the titles that they loved from the past.  Now that Atari is stepping back into the arena it seems to me proper to respect their logos and trademarks.

 

However, it would be nice to have some clear guidelines on this subject from Atari themselves.  When someone wants to distribute their homebrew it would be nice to have a way to mark it so the consumer can easily recognize what system it is designed to be used with.

 

Correct me if I am wrong but I think a line of text that says, "for play on Atari XXXX" is fair and doesn't violate Atari's rights.

 

With the Jaguar it wasn’t just abandoned, it was made public domain when Hasbro released all rights to the Jaguar in 1999, as explicitly stated in the press release below some 24-years ago. 
 

It seems as current Atari is reclaiming the cat’s logo trademark, which is why clarification is definitely needed.

 

[m.o.terra kaesi]

3 minutes ago, Albert said:

Just to address this, we're running the latest version of the Invision Community software, and this basically as modern and up-to-date as forum software gets.  The store, though, you're right about that, and that's one of the reasons I am extraordinarily eager to get over to a new ecommerce platform.  The games database is also very outdated and needs some serious help, and this is something I've discussed with Atari and they are eager to assist with that endeavor, in the same way the huge update to the MobyGames database that went live recently.

 

 ..Al

I didn't mean to offend you ... in terms of responsiveness to mobile devices the store is a relic. I know...forums are generally not mobiles devices best friends.

[TrogdarRobusto]

12 hours ago, racerx said:

I think most of us that are currently banned from Atari's Facebook, Twitter, and reddit pages for nothing more than asking uncomfortable VCS questions are going to be a tough nut to crack. 

 

I'd love to be won back but I'm not sure a corporate buyout of the preeminent fan community was the sign I was looking for.

Shucks. I was sure that was going to win you back! 

I came in about halfway through the VCS era. It took a while to change Atari's posture in social media from block and ban to discuss and engage. We have a much thicker skin now. Anyone who made personal attacks against individuals was typically banned, but that is a universal practice not specific to Atari. If we need to unblock accounts feed them to me and I will make it happen.

The communications around the VCS were ... not to my taste. I think it is a cool retro device that does some neat things. I have one in my living room I use exclusively for streaming tv and movies from all the various things I subscribe to. The one stop shopping via Google Chrome is awesome, for me anyway. I have one in my office I use for gaming, but it gets less use. A really dedicated community has formed around the VCS, and we are doing our best to feed content into the store. I do think it should be a good platform for homebrew games to be sold and showcased, same with indie games. And if we can extend the ecosystem around it to add more utility even better, which is our goal. 

The curse of the VCS was timing. It came to market when manufacturing and parts costs kept rising, really the entire supply chain was a nightmare. It is certainly open to criticism. I have my issues with it -- and if we were going to do a VCS mark 2 it would be different (my wish list includes easier access to memory and SSD slots, fan-less performance that we were promised with the Ryzen but was not realistic, better processor). 

Really, Atari has a history of creating hardware that tries hard to do something novel, and not all of them hit the mark. But they all make a good faith effort, and even odd ducks like the Jaguar still have a passionate fan and developer base (Jagfest 2023 anyone?).

I am over-responding to your initial post, but ... I do that. My point is that there is nothing wrong with asking tough questions. We are getting all sorts of criticism in this thread about how we implemented the 2600+ ... bring it on. All valid discussion. Sometimes a product is exactly what it was meant to be and also doesn't check the boxes of certain user groups. That may be the case here. This is meant for mass market / retro enthusiasts. The 2600+ is super easy to use, pretty damn affordable, has a solid build quality, and kicks out a crisp, clean HDMI image. You can compare it to a Hyperkin all day long from a functional stand point if you want, but once you get one in your hands you can see that they are very different beasts. 

Will we listen to criticism and recommendations and adapt to better meet the needs of the developer community? I bet we will. 

We can't win you back in a day, it is going to take a while. I think it is worth the time and the effort. 

 

[m.o.terra kaesi]

1 minute ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

This is an overly broad assumption. Period.

not worst than your assumption. Time will tell.

I'm in general also a "doubts kind of guy"... but in this case, nobody in here (not even all of you programmers and designers for 20 years) can get a better picture of this case than Al can do. We just don't know the details.

[Albert]

4 minutes ago, m.o.terra kaesi said:

I didn't mean to offend you ... in terms of responsiveness to mobile devices the store is a relic. I know...forums are generally not mobiles devices best friends.

No offense at all, I agree with your post, but just wanted to point out that one element with regards to the forum.  The forum does have good mobile support, although the AtariAge theme isn't perfect in that regard.  Much better than with previous iterations of the forum.  The store with mobile is pretty terrible, though, another good reason to get the store moved to a new platform!

 

 ..Al

[SIO2]

13 minutes ago, TrogdarRobusto said:

[Regarding 2600+]

You can compare it to a Hyperkin all day long from a functional stand point if you want, but once you get one in your hands you can see that they are very different beasts.

 

I would hope so.  Hyperkin releases unfinished / barely functional consoles and lets the customer figure out how to make it into something other than a doorstop .   The people here in these forums did make the Retron 77 usable.  That is the kind of resource that Atari Age is.

 

So I hope Atari will continue to work with the community and expand the relationship.

Edited September 8, 2023 by SIO2

[+FarmerPotato]

 AtariAge is the best online forum I've ever been a member of. (1980s BBSer here.). 
 

My concern is: what's the status of all the non-Atari forums of AtariAge?

 

The Texas Instruments forums--where I hang out--are a pretty big chunk of site message traffic and file storage. 

 

I'll trust Al that nothing's changing, right now, but I wonder about the future. 

 
Weird to think that the TI-99/4A and other classic home computers are now "supported" by an entity known as Atari.

 

Hey, Atari, remember that y'all contracted out a dozen AtariSoft titles for those home computers back in the day? At least one of those programmers is on this forum!