+jgkspsx Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Xyla said: No one would ever accept that company as Apple. That's what I mean by they need to do more and be better. The situation you describe is exactly what has happened to Crosley, which has two successors that are successful in the market even if they’re not making very good stuff. https://www.cincinnatimagazine.com/article/the-crosley-brand-will-be-with-us-for-years-to-come/ It’s also what happened to Polaroid and after a long time as a joke NuPolaroid now seems pretty well liked: https://www.lifestyleasia.com/sg/tech/polaroid-history-behind-the-hype/amp/ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSetIlly Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: For many years, I never bothered with any licensing. I guess I wouldn't even have started this hobby with all the lawyers around like today. Over the years I have learned that licenses are required because there is significant money in our hobby now. But I can't say I like them and I am mostly not interested. Fair. It's an unfortunate aspect of the software development scene. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 21 minutes ago, christo930 said: But Atari isn't going to improve brand recognition or reputation by not paying for the use of Stella. I obviously meant vice versa. 21 minutes ago, christo930 said: The comment I was replying to said Atari should pay for the license and profit share with the developers. I personally have no idea what the developers think of the existing plan. When you say "we" presumably you are a Stella contributor? Yes. 21 minutes ago, christo930 said: My point though is that you shouldn't get mad at Atari for following the rules. Please reread what @DirtyHairy and I wrote numerous times above. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles N Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 15 hours ago, Trebor said: Further, Barnyard Blaster (Misspelled "Blster"), Meltdown, and Sentinel received a 'Pass', but all three games require a light gun. I mean, while they’re at it, why not bring us a nifty little run of Atari-branded crt-tv’s too? Would think it a perfect match! 😄 1 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo930 Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 10 minutes ago, jgkspsx said: The situation you describe is exactly what has happened to Crosley, Like the current Crosley, Atari is a font and logo that has nothing to do with the Atari of 1981. . Atari ceased to exist like 50 years ago. The current brand owner is no more Atari than Hasboro was. All the employees are gone. More importantly, it's not 1981 anymore. The current people who own the Atari name bought it so it could reincarnate it's corpse and animate it like some Frankenstein monster through the graveyards of our memories. All of their sweet talk is to monetize them. Just like all the old ladies in the 90s were buying fake Crosley radios meant to look like the radios of their youth, Atari wants to sell us the video game equivalent. Frankly, I'm surprised I haven't seen a bunch of plastic Chinese crap with PHILCO printed all over it. To this day there is a lot of interest in Philco stuff. Just as there is absolutely zero connection between a modern day Crosley phonograph and the Crosley of yesteryear, there is absolutely no connection between Atari today and the Atari of yesteryear. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guppy Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Nall3k said: This, 100%. You can’t put something as free to use in the public domain and then turn around and demand or expect payment. Stella is released under the LGPL. It is Free, Open Source Software (FOSS) license. Not public domain. Anyone who wants to support Stella can contribute code, testing, but reports, feature requests, and, yes, financial donations to the project team. Use of Stella code in commercial projects is allowed, but subject to the terms of the LGPL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 15 minutes ago, christo930 said: Atari ceased to exist like 50 years ago. Perhaps a slight exaggeration as the Atari 2600 celebrates 46 years old sometime around these days. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xyla Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 27 minutes ago, christo930 said: Atari ceased to exist like 50 years ago. No, Atari ceased to exist in 1996. That was the first time the company was reduced to nothing but IP rights. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo930 Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 39 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: I obviously meant vice versa. This is my fault. I meant to say that Atari's reputation would not be harmed by failing to profit share with the Stella team. If the 2600+ is sold at retail, most customers won't even know "who" Stella is. Really, I see no reason to think this iteration of Atari is any different or better than any other iteration of Atari regardless of what they say. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo930 Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 14 minutes ago, carlsson said: Perhaps a slight exaggeration as the Atari 2600 celebrates 46 years old sometime around these days. I'm an idiot. I meant like 40 years ago when Atari collapsed in 83 or 84 and sold off to Tramiel. Atari was broken up and basically ceased to exist. Tramiel didn't even want the games, he wanted the logo, name and computer division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiv Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 I'm just glad Al now has some financial backing for this site... This thread is going to require a significant storage upgrade on the backend all on its own! 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roots.genoa Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 6 hours ago, marakatti said: Why it has to be exclusives? I don't think that mattered so much back then. By "exclusives", I think he meant games owned by Atari (which are necessarily exclusives). Most ST games (at least the ones people fondly remember) were third party games, and it could be difficult to license them now. Also, even though I had an Atari ST, multi-platform games were usually better on Amiga. 4 hours ago, jgkspsx said: They just blocked Dolphin from selling it on Steam. I'm not even sure Nintendo did anything. I heard Valve blocked it actually. So basically people are complaining the Atari 2600+ uses Stella but its developers are not credited... yet. Maybe they will be in the final product, so maybe we should wait for it before criticizing it. All this talk reminds me of the MISTer community, that brags about being open source but complains when MISTer cores are ported to other systems. 🙄 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xyla Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, christo930 said: I'm an idiot. I meant like 40 years ago when Atari collapsed in 83 or 84 and sold off to Tramiel. Atari was broken up and basically ceased to exist. Tramiel didn't even want the games, he wanted the logo, name and computer division. You're seriously exaggerating. Tramiel got all the Atari technology developed and the ability to continue it. If things were the way you describe it, there would have been no XE line and no 7800. Atari continued to exist, it just had an extreme change of management and staff. Nothing even close to what happened in 1996 and beyond. Edited September 10, 2023 by Xyla 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+x=usr(1536) Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 51 minutes ago, christo930 said: Frankly, I'm surprised I haven't seen a bunch of plastic Chinese crap with PHILCO printed all over it Permit me to oblige: https://www.amazon.com/Electronics-Philco/s?rh=n%3A172282%2Cp_4%3APhilco And: https://philco.us/en/ Seems like they're a subsidiary of Philips these days, but it looks as though they're the downmarket subsidiary for devices Philips doesn't want the parent company's name to be on. FWIW, Bell+Howell (amongst others) are also in the same boat. From being the company that made some of the most significant advances in early motion picture technology to now selling as-seen-on-TV repackaged tat at inflated prices, it's a shame to see how they ended up. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guppy Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 On 9/7/2023 at 8:41 PM, r_chase said: I'm no executive nor lawyer, but my gut says probably not, since the logos might be used to indicate compatibility or something, whether it's done by AtariAge or not. Typically when such logos are used in legitimate commercial products, they are used with permission. The terms of that permission vary. We shouldn't expect Atari Legal to be any different from other corporations with respect to how they protect their interests. If you use another entity's IP without their permission, you're open to legal liabilities, but whether those come to pass depends on the owning party's ability and desire to bring a lawsuit. With trademarks, companies are required to defend/enforce them, or they can lose them. Atari could pre-emptively release blanket terms of use agreement for the use of their name, logos, other intellectual properties, etc. which would give this community some sense of what the rules are. And this would be extremely useful to calming the community's fears about Atari's intentions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo930 Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, Xyla said: You're seriously exaggerating. Tramiel got all the Atari technology developed and the ability to continue it. If things were the way you describe it, there would have been no XE line and no 7800. Atari continued to exist, it just had a massive change of management. Nothing even close to what happened in 1996 and beyond. Sure the 90s were worse. But Atari was broken up and the company was in tatters. The XE was a computer system, which is what he wanted. Most of the staff who still had a job got canned. The 7800 got released because he had 50k consoles in a warehouse. The 2600 Jr was another cash grab. 1996 was 27 years ago. Regardless of where exactly you want to draw the line, everyone agrees it's dead and has been dead a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jgkspsx Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 45 minutes ago, christo930 said: Just like all the old ladies in the 90s were buying fake Crosley radios meant to look like the radios of their youth Crosley is one of the major mass-market turntable manufacturers now. They’re not great, but they’re cheap, and they sell a ton of them to young people with limited budgets. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles N Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 (edited) Arrghh … all these years and dates and shifts and collapses and ups and downs and declines and falls and risings … in Atari…; it drives me crazy to think about, trying to keep it all in my brain at the same time… … goodness, why cannot the world just have an offical Atari-historian … somewhere … ! Edited September 10, 2023 by Giles N 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo930 Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, jgkspsx said: They’re not great Not being great would be a big improvement. Whatever it is vinyl allegedly delivers, you're never going to get it out of a Crosley and those 2 inch speakers, crystal cartridges and plastic cantilever. Edited September 10, 2023 by christo930 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 37 minutes ago, christo930 said: Really, I see no reason to think this iteration of Atari is any different or better than any other iteration of Atari regardless of what they say. Agreed. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiu Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 3 hours ago, Xyla said: The fact that the new Atari company has to rely on emulation at all is kind of mind-boggling to me. You'd think they have the resources to come up with a 100% compatible hardware solution considering the age and simplicity of the original technology. Poaching Stella is just part of the cash grab strategy of doing as little work as possible. Especially since, like I said, the Flashback 2 had a 2600-on-a-chip technology two decades ago, and surely it could be made even smaller and cheaper now, 18 years later. The 7800 would still have to be emulated, but there's no reason to not work on a similar 7800-on-a-chip. Who has the rights to that technology? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 Will the name "batari Basic" have to be changed? If so, the way this thread is going, how about changing it to "bcrosley Basic"? 1 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neogeo1982 Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 20 minutes ago, Giles N said: Arrghh … all these years and dates and shifts and collapses and ups and downs snd declines and falls and risings … in Atari…; it drives me crazy to think about, trying to keep it all in my brain at the same time… … goodness, why cannot the world just have an offical Atari-historian … somewhere … ! He's waiting for the yars signal to be seen in the sky 😋 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Fred_M Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 (edited) 35 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said: https://philco.us/en/ Seems like they're a subsidiary of Philips these days, but it looks as though they're the downmarket subsidiary for devices Philips doesn't want the parent company's name to be on. Actually Philips only makes medical devices these days. All other products are made by other companies and those buy the license to use the name Philips or other brands Philips owns. Sounds a bit familiar to this topic Edited September 10, 2023 by Fred_M 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBeefy Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 Man and people thought I was being negative when asking the Atari employee about if they like tacos and hot sauce. 🙄 Some people need to learn to have some fun. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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