AtariAge + Atari Q&A

[+jgkspsx]

36 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:

LOL I don’t think a bribe is the answer @GoldLeader, it’s a matter of principle for the Stella/GPL people, not money. 

Stella is donationware and @Thomas Jentzsch and @DirtyHairy have been clear that they would welcome a donation from Atari as well as public disclosure that it is using Stella.

[guppy]

8 hours ago, Nall3k said:

Couldn't Atari have pulled a Nintendo and just sued the Stella team and shut the whole thing down?

Doubtful.  For one, Atari doesn't have the legal budget of Nintendo.  For another, there's nothing illegal about writing emulation software.

[+Kaboomer]

26 minutes ago, jgkspsx said:

Stella is donationware and @Thomas Jentzsch and @DirtyHairy have been clear that they would welcome a donation from Atari as well as public disclosure that it is using Stella.

Dear @TrogdarRobusto - My 2 cents after reading the first 40 pages of this thread, it's crystal clear (whether required by law, license, or not, considering the history of Atari back in the day not acknowledging programmers) the morally correct course of action is a nice big fat donation to the Stella dev along with public recognition in the packaging/specs. 

[Clint Thompson]

10 hours ago, bloodreptile said:

If they had announced a mini XGEs instead of a 2600 plus, I would be happy about now.  Access to 6000 old atari games and a new keyboard. That would be good. I think my 4 or 5 posts are the most I have said this year.  20 plus years on the site 340 posts.

This cannot be echoed enough but more so on the wider range of possible hardware products that should be pursued.

 

For the past however many years through the different Atari iterations, it has always been a re-hash or re-release of the same very tired 2600 variant this or that hardware with a portable version and a single 7800 variant that was an awful execution and should have never been released. Of course this is not including the current VCS, which is riddled with it's own set of problems. 2600 is the safest bet with the highest chance of return but that can't be true anymore since it's all they've every really done and is played out, modern VCS aside.

 

It would be nice to have options for other things that are either unobtainable now and/or are so insanely expensive, that it doesn't make sense to even bother trying to get.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Clint Thompson

[leech]

52 minutes ago, guppy said:

almost as long as the "original Atari" which ran from 1972-1996.

I always think of Original Atari as being 1972-1984, then you have Commodore Atari from 1984 to 1996.  Then you have Hasbro Atari (known as Atari Interactive).  Then French Atari, whic lh is more or less what they have been since... can't recall when.

[Matt_B]

34 minutes ago, guppy said:

The 2017 AtariBox project that turned into the new VCS, the Recharged series of games, and so on, have shown that the company that owns the Atari name is once again interested in developing and releasing new games.  And by acquiring AtariAge, they've (potentially) cemented their legitimacy by creating an allegiance to the only other entity that could have made a strong claim to it.  So long as they protect and nurture that community that they just bought into, that legacy will live on and grow stronger.

You're sweeping under the rug a whole bunch of far more dubious projects there that were still pursued post-2017, such as their online casino, crypto and hotels.

 

I'm all for a more gaming-focused Atari, but let's not try and pretend that all that other crap never happened, and heaven forfend anything like it ends up on the front page of AA.

[leech]

8 minutes ago, Clint Thompson said:

This cannot be echoed enough but more so on the wider range of possible hardware products that should be pursued.

 

For the past however many years through the different Atari iterations, it has always been a re-hash or re-release of the same very tired 2600 variant this or that hardware with a portable version and a single 7800 variant that was an awful execution and should have never been released. Of course this is not including the current VCS, which is riddled with it's own set of problems. 2600 is the safest bet with the highest chance of return but that can't be true anymore since it's all they've every really done and is played out, modern VCS aside.

 

It would be nice to have options for other things that are either unobtainable now and/or are so insanely expensive, that it doesn't make sense to even bother trying to get.

Imagine if they could get the fabs to push out more Sally, Antic, GTIA or Freddy, and Pokey, etc... build up a new XEGS that had an integrated floppy drive and extendable keyboard, etc... something something, hookers and blackjack.

[SearsRoebuck]

6 minutes ago, Matt_B said:

You're sweeping under the rug a whole bunch of far more dubious projects there that were still pursued post-2017, such as their online casino, crypto and hotels.

 

I'm all for a more gaming-focused Atari, but let's not try and pretend that all that other crap never happened, and heaven forfend anything like it ends up on the front page of AA.

 

Yes, and I get the sense that the current "Atari" is more interested in raping their remaining IPs to death than producing anything that is actually innovative. I'd love to be wrong about this, but that is what I have seen. What if this new console ends up being the 2nd coming of the Amico? Can we say so here, or is it going to be like hoping for balanced coverage of Nintendo made products in the pages of Nintendo Power circa 1990?

 

Sites like this don't work IMO when they are the property of the company, the suits are going to want pure shills for their products and not allow dissent or promotion of their competitors. I see no reason why AA would be any different. And it pains me to say this, because for a long time I have praised AA for avoided the drama/meltdowns of so many other gaming websites. 

 

[ColecoGamer]

Well, only time will tell if the merger was good for AA or not. I’ve been a member of this board for over 7 years now, so yes - I am attached to the board; I consider it home; and I am always amazed by what the community develops for our favorite Atari machines.

My question about AA being attached to Atari’s hip was never answered, so I’ll just assume it is, and pray AA will last if something happens to the big ‘A’.

 

@Albert, you still did the community proud with everything you have done. Game releases; the AA store itself; and how many countless hours you’ve spent, slaving over upgrade issues and answering a barrage of questions from us. 

I plan on staying and contributing to the community as always. Thank you for making this possible.

[guppy]

20 minutes ago, leech said:

I always think of Original Atari as being 1972-1984, then you have Commodore Atari from 1984 to 1996.  Then you have Hasbro Atari (known as Atari Interactive).  Then French Atari, whic lh is more or less what they have been since... can't recall when.

That's fine; I don't understand the full details of what went on during the acquisitions between Warner and Jack Tramiel. My assumption is/was that operations continued during this time, with at least some personnel remaining with Atari business units when ownership changed.

 

We can certainly consider the different ownerships or CEO regimes to be distinct "eras".  But I was only trying to establish a late bounding for when "original Atari" clearly and unambiguously ceased to be.

[Nall3k]

36 minutes ago, Kaboomer said:

Dear @TrogdarRobusto - My 2 cents after reading the first 40 pages of this thread, it's crystal clear (whether required by law, license, or not, considering the history of Atari back in the day not acknowledging programmers) the morally correct course of action is a nice big fat donation to the Stella dev along with public recognition in the packaging/specs. 

What specifically would be an “appropriate donation”, because that would subjectively vary from individual to individual. I’m sorry, some of this is coming off as unreasonable demands. 
 

No one is forcing anyone to buy a product or stay on a site, and I don’t believe there is anything Atari SA could do to change anyone’s mind here. 
 

Every iteration of Atari had its own issues, and not everyone will ever be satisfied.

[guppy]

48 minutes ago, Matt_B said:

You're sweeping under the rug a whole bunch of far more dubious projects there that were still pursued post-2017, such as their online casino, crypto and hotels.

 

I'm all for a more gaming-focused Atari, but let's not try and pretend that all that other crap never happened, and heaven forfend anything like it ends up on the front page of AA.

Also fair.  I omitted that stuff mainly for length, and also because I'm trying to remain focused on the games, not other business ventures.

 

Since you brought it up, I'll say that the hotel venture was just a head-scratcher.  It raised an eyebrow of wondering what the folks who owned the name were up to, but mainly looked like a quick, easy branding cash grab. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, no worse than selling atari-branded clothing, and to be completely fair, if I could stay at a hotel that was decorated in nostalgic 70's 80's arcade Atari inspired decor, I'd probably consider it if the price was reasonable.

 

I'm not a gambler, but the gaming industry does include casinos, so if Atari wanted to explore that space, well ok, but I'm not going to start gambling because of it.  If it makes them money, more power to them.  But I'm sticking with games that pull quarters out of my pocket and are GUARANTEED to not pay me anything ever.

 

The NFT and cryptocurrency gambits were something I thought were bad ideas and not a good fit for Atari as a brand. 

 

I was also highly critical of the VCS project as it became increasingly delayed and some of the deceptive practices that the people involved with that project did during its development phase.  Even after it released, I continued to be realistic about it -- numerous problems with the OS, lack of first-party games, lack of exclusive game titles, lack of any reason really to buy it.

 

Atari SA simply haven't had enough resources to sustain a console launch, and shouldn't have tried; in my opinion, their best strategy was to focus on new, original games.  The Recharged series is more like what I would like to have seen from them all along, and if they hadn't sunk so much into the VCS, they might have a larger library of new games based on their classic IP, or perhaps developed some new IPs with a distinct on-brand flavor.

Edited September 11, 2023 by guppy

[abbotkinneydude]

5 hours ago, Xyla said:

No, Atari ceased to exist in 1996.  That was the first time the company was reduced to nothing but IP rights.

Well, ATARI GAMES (as Midway Games West Inc.) closed in February 2003 with its assets eventually going full circle and landing at Warner Bros. in 2009.

 

For many, ATARI GAMES was the true ATARI heir of ATARI Inc. as some of its final employees predated the 1984 split.

 

Quote

February 7: Product development at Midway Games West (including previously announced titles Nitrocity and Gladiator: The Crimson Reign) was halted, the remaining 30 employees at the unit (including: President and COO Dan Van Elderen (with Atari since 12/5/74); programmer Ed Logg (with Atari 1978-94 and since 1995); programmer Dave Shepperd (with Atari since 2/2/76) would be let go, and the Midway Games West office at 675 Sycamore Dr., Milpitas CA would be closed.

Source: https://mcurrent.name/atarihistory/at_games.html#2003

 

Also attaching the certificate of amendment for the name change from ATARI GAMES CORPORATION to MIDWAY GAMES WEST INC. (PDF).

Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20210303073700/https://businesssearch.sos.ca.gov/Document/RetrievePDF?Id=01265708-6218022

 

RetrievePDF.pdf

[JPF997]

48 minutes ago, leech said:

I always think of Original Atari as being 1972-1984, then you have Commodore Atari from 1984 to 1996.  Then you have Hasbro Atari (known as Atari Interactive).  Then French Atari, whic lh is more or less what they have been since... can't recall when.

2001 is when Infogrames bought Hasbro Interactive and  the Atari brand  by proxy, 2009 is when they rebranded as Atari SA and became the modern Atari we know today.

[+jgkspsx]

11 minutes ago, abbotkinneydude said:

ATARI GAMES was the true ATARI heir of ATARI Inc. as some of its final employees predated the 1984 split.

If we’re going to do it based on employees then Amiga is the real Atari 🙃

[John Stamos Mullet]

13 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

Everything you said might come true, but I’m not going to get emotional about it if it does. Everything changes, everything dies. Atari itself has gone bankrupt and risen in a different/lesser form multiple times. People I consider friends in this forum have moved on or passed away. For a period of years this very site harbored and enabled a lying narcissist who wanted only to boost his ego and sell preorders for an Android TV console. Last night the admin of this site resorted to desperately emailing everyone on a Saturday night with instructions on how to defeat warnings about SSL certificates and to assure them the outage was unrelated to the recent buyout. If the site goes away, it’s a shame for game preservation, but as a source of entertainment we have plenty of other options. Albert heavily implied he was getting burned out on running the show alone and this seemed like the best possible solution. I believe him when he says he wouldn’t have done it if he didn’t believe in the partnership. You don’t have to trust him yourself but I don’t see how fretting about it would make anything better. 

This. All of it.

[Nall3k]

My overall 2 cents are that there is simply nothing Atari SA can do to win over some individuals in our community. I've been a member since 2002 (Jesus...), and there has always been a sizable negativity associated with Infogrames iteration of Atari (some of which is rightfully so). I fully supported the publisher in 2007-2011 under Gardner and Harrison because the output of new games was phenomenal (Ghostbusters, Test Drive: Unlimited, Riddick, heck, even Alone in the Dark 5 was innovative and felt "next gen": mechanics that wouldn't be seen again until Alan Wake some 2 years later, albeit more refined).

People here rightfully called out the gambling and crypto stuff that Atari focused on under Fred Chesnais (spelling?). Under Rosen, the focus has shifted back to game development and away from gambling and crypto -- this endeavor gave the company a spot on Metacritic's top publisher list for 2022. People here are still not happy and won't even give the Recharged lineup a chance. 

And I believe even if Atari SA gave a donation or did everything that was demanded of them, a sizable part of our community here would still hate them because "they're raping the IPs" or "the donation wasn't big enough!". It just strikes me as a fruitless endeavor. 

If the current Atari folds, would AA go with them? IDK, it's possible. Not trying to be morbid, but we're not going to last forever, and I don't know if Albert wanted to keep going on his own. I'm glad he is now part of current Atari as their go-to historian for accuracy, and I wish the company success, because I'd like to see them as a respected publisher again.

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Nall3k

[SIO2]

6 minutes ago, jgkspsx said:

If we’re going to do it based on employees then Amiga is the real Atari 🙃

So if Atari hires Woz are they Apple?  No.  Atari SA is the real Atari today with all different people so let's get past the real vs not real thing.

[GraffitiTavern]

1 hour ago, guppy said:

For another, there's nothing illegal about writing emulation software.

You are both correct and that doesn't actually matter, companies often just use the legal system as a financial cudgel, bankrupting the opponent with legal costs regardless of outcome. That isn't just a generalization, Sony executed that exact tactic to shut down the Bleem emulator in the PS1 era.

[moycon]

26 minutes ago, Nall3k said:

I've been a member since 2002 (Jesus...), 

Same here and I agree with a lot of what you said. One thing that is for certain in my world, Albert has for decades been the face of Atari for me, even as "legit" Atari existed in other places on the internet. It's hilarious that after all these many, many years, he's actually an Atari employee! I'm excited to see where this all goes, but if it goes no-where, nothing will change. Albert IS the man that brought us all together and gave everyone here all the Atari they could ever want. Nothing can take that away. I personally don't see it dying soon even if "legit" Atari does "die"... rabid classic video game freaks will always have a place in this world. 

 

That said, this merger is a positive thing. I'm baffled as to why anyone would say otherwise. I think the older people get, the more of a negative outlook they acquire.

"Change of any kind is a bad thing."  All the negative comments might just be old people saying old people things? 

[+Random Terrain]

Speaking of Stella, it finally has Atari 2600 quality sound now, so that's nice.

 

 

[+MrZarniwoop]

I realize some folks are "hopefully pessimistic" instead of "cautiously optimistic" but it feels like the angst is somewhat more than I expected when I heard the news. I was vaguely positive with a bit of wait-and-see because it was clear to me that @Albert's role and AtariAge was completely unsustainable, and this felt like a lifeline to keep this place alive. I for one, appreciate that aspect of this.

 

The current management at Atari:

• inherited the VCS, and turned it into a recharged (new), and homebrew (old) device that people that have one seem to like now (There's a modern Atari console, right now, that owners now seem to be happy with!)
• started putting AtariAge 2600 & 7800 homebrews on the VCS store, with the lowest fees of any online store and most of the money going to the developer
• launched a sequel to H.E.R.O. from the OG developer on the 2600 on the VCS with Stella
• got Polymega to commit to a cartridge device for the VCS, one of the primary wishes on the forums
• developed the 2600+ as a "better Flashback except with a cartridge slot and 7800 compatibility and HDMI!" which is what folks in the forums kept asking for
• announced they'll be selling new 2600 joysticks and paddles!
• launched unreleased game Atari 2600 cartridges (albeit some physically backwards, but then made it right with free replacements and bonus collectable pins) and are launching a new Atari 2600 cartridge where they fully bought the rights and not just a royalty agreement to publish something
• launched Atari 50, an award-winning tour de force game/celebration of all the Atari arcade and console heritage on every platform that matters, including the VCS
• reached out to the Stella team for collaboration, offered to pay them (and got turned down), and used their work respecting the license, work, and team
• paid to keep MobyGames running and did nothing but keep it as-is
• paid Albert to keep running AtariAge as-is, just as he was looking for a way out, including him considering turning it off (and Albert has noted his choice to remove legally dubious IP was his choice, and happening regardless, and I can't blame him)
• effectively retroactively legalized all Atari-owned IP in the AtariAge store, turning essentially a "grey area" (ridiculously optimistic view) or pirated games (lawyerly view) into a legit one overnight
• made Albert the official historian of the past and gave him a seat at the table for the future
• bought a bunch of IP including Stern (Berzerk!) and M Network so it's part of Atari
• attracted and received the advice and endorsement of Nolan Bushnell who noted the current incarnation and CEO is a modern connection to his original Atari (unlike some of the interim management teams)
• interacts with the community on Discord, ZPH, and these AtariAge forums in plain English without corporate or marketing speak, including saying "I don't know, I'll find out"

Honestly, I think they've earned the right for a "wait and see" attitude instead of "they suck". Change isn't always bad if it's growth. The current Atari management team feels like it's on a roll. They may, and probably will, screw up and do dumb things, but if they made great games (I think Atari 50 and the Recharged series count) and connect to the brand from our childhood (with things like a modern plug-and-play 2600 that plays cartridges on modern TVs) then I'm interested in what's next.

[+cvga]

3 minutes ago, moycon said:

Same here and I agree with a lot of what you said. One thing that is for certain in my world, Albert has for decades been the face of Atari for me, even as "legit" Atari existed in other places on the internet. It's hilarious that after all these many, many years, he's actually an Atari employee! I'm excited to see where this all goes, but if it goes no-where, nothing will change. Albert IS the man that brought us all together and gave everyone here all the Atari they could ever want. Nothing can take that away. I personally don't see it dying soon even if "legit" Atari does "die" Die hard video game freaks will always have a place in this world.

 

That said, this merger is a positive thing. I'm baffled as to why anyone would say otherwise. I think the older people get, the more of a negative outlook they acquire.

Change of any kind is a bad thing. All the negative comments might just be that? 

I agree 100%. I think Al might be employee #25! Not a lot of other people. He truly has direct contact!

[JPF997]

10 hours ago, Nall3k said:

My overall 2 cents are that there is simply nothing Atari SA can do to win over some individuals in our community. I've been a member since 2002 (Jesus...), and there has always been a sizable negativity associated with Infogrames iteration of Atari (some of which is rightfully so). I fully supported the publisher in 2007-2011 under Gardner and Harrison because the output of new games was phenomenal (Ghostbusters, Test Drive: Unlimited, Riddick, heck, even Alone in the Dark 5 was innovative and felt "next gen": mechanics that wouldn't be seen again until Alan Wake some 2 years later, albeit more refined).

People here rightfully called out the gambling and crypto stuff that Atari focused on under Fred Chesnais (spelling?). Under Rosen, the focus has shifted back to game development and away from gambling and crypto -- this endeavor gave the company a spot on Metacritic's top publisher list for 2022. People here are still not happy and won't even give the Recharged lineup a chance. 

And I believe even if Atari SA gave a donation or did everything that was demanded of them, a sizable part of our community here would still hate them because "they're raping the IPs" or "the donation wasn't big enough!". It just strikes me as a fruitless endeavor. 

If the current Atari folds, would AA go with them? IDK, it's possible. Not trying to be morbid, but we're not going to last forever, and I don't know if Albert wanted to keep going on his own. I'm glad he is now part of current Atari as their go-to historian for accuracy, and I wish the company success, because I'd like to see them as a respected publisher again.

 

As a young zoomer gamer I think I can offer a very different perspective  to this discussion of who's the "real Atari" as my takes are generally very different from those of the old school Atari fans. I started gaming right after my fourth birthday in April 2001 when I received a PS2 ( my first console) for my birthday, growing up Atari for me was the company that released game's that I loved like Dragon Ball  Budokai 1 to 3, Tenkaichi 1 to 3, test drive, v rally, enter the matrix, super man shadow of apokolips and Roller coaster tycoon 3, that's the Atari that I grew up with and loved. A few years later when I started becoming interested in gaming history I come to find out that the Atari that I grew up with is not considered the real one by old school fan's and I kinda understand where they're coming from ( given Atari's long and complex corporate history) but I simply cannot agree with them, for me Infogrames Atari (SA) is the best version of the company that has ever existed. If you gave me a choice between playing the old version's of missile command and black widow vs the recharged version's I can tell you right here and  now i  prefer the remake's  over the originals, I know that's not a  very popular position to have especially in a forum  frequented mostly by old school Atari fans but that's just how I feel. For me modern Atari is the real Atari and I'm not gonna pretend like I don't believe that just so that  I don't offend some of the more hardcore old school fan's who despise modern Atari no matter what they do.

[Xyla]

58 minutes ago, abbotkinneydude said:

Well, ATARI GAMES (as Midway Games West Inc.) closed in February 2003 with its assets eventually going full circle and landing at Warner Bros. in 2009.

For many, ATARI GAMES was the true ATARI heir of ATARI Inc. as some of its final employees predated the 1984 split.

Yeah I know all that, but Atari Games was never the same after WMS bought them.  Through the '80s and to the mid '90s, I loved both Atari Games Inc and Atari Corp. I always wished the two companies would work together rather than let companies like U.S. Gold do the ST ports of the Atari arcade games.  But it was two great Atari companies in parallel for the 2nd half of the '80s.  My interests were primarily computers and arcade games, not so much consoles, so it was a great time to be an Atari fan.  The last great game Atari Games made was T-Mek, which was shortly after the Falcon was killed off... and Atari Corp itself followed a few years after that.  So in my heart, they never felt all that separated.

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Xyla