AtariAge + Atari Q&A

[+cvga]

33 minutes ago, TrogdarRobusto said:

This video strikes me as a hit job based on a combination of misunderstanding of how the LRG business works, assigning a nefarious, premeditated motive to every mistake LRG has ever made...

I'll bet you're thankful that this never happens to the company you work for

[TrogdarRobusto]

Just now, cvga said:

I'll bet you're thankful that this never happens to the company you work for

Never! 🤩 Hey, sometimes we all deserve a little constructive criticism. 

[+jeremiahjt]

36 minutes ago, Albert said:

There are a great number of much cooler things I want to do to the database first.

 

 ..Al

Is the 8-bit computer database one of those things?

[+jeremiahjt]

38 minutes ago, Albert said:

 

Double post.

Edited September 12, 2023 by jeremiahjt
Double post

[Albert]

Just now, jeremiahjt said:

Is the 8-bit computer database one of those things?

It sure is, along with ST and Arcade.

 

 ..Al

[+jeremiahjt]

11 minutes ago, Albert said:

It sure is, along with ST and Arcade.

 

 ..Al

Now that is pretty exciting news.

[+thanatos]

On 9/7/2023 at 11:27 PM, Albert said:

While it was a neat looking pinball due to its giant stature, it certainly is not very much fun to play. 

 

 ..Al

 

Well, that was really the joke. 

Sadly I missed your reply four days ago, I've been at VCFMW, but now there are 30+ more pages??  Holy crap I'm never going to catch up!

 

[KainXavier]

@TrogdarRobusto

I don't think this has been asked before, but are there any plans to release a "standard" edition of the games in the Atari XP line?  Also, can we expect a $30 price point or will the price vary?

[+GoldLeader]

On 9/7/2023 at 2:11 PM, Blinky said:

Congratulatios on taking AtariAge to the next level.

 

Awesome! Do you have any pictures of it's dumper hardware that you can share?

 

 

Ya know,...Some say it's rude to ask for a picture of somebody's dumper

[roots.genoa]

9 hours ago, TrogdarRobusto said:

I read some posts on Reddit that argue every game Limited Run and the other small batch publishers make should be made in unlimited quantities and sold at mass retail. People think Walmart is going to place a big order for a relatively obscure, discontinued Game Boy Advanced title and stock it on shelves across the globe?   T H A T    I S    R I D I C U L O U S. 

I'm the editor of a small (French) retrogaming website and unfortunately, I see on a daily basis that kind of rants, including here at AtariAge. I find a bit sad that people who started playing video games before I was born still don't really understand how video games are made and the basics of economy (how licensing works in particular). It's like if they want something, even if they're the only one, then it should be done.

 

3 hours ago, TrogdarRobusto said:

This video strikes me as a hit job based on a combination of misunderstanding of how the LRG business works, assigning a nefarious, premeditated motive to every mistake LRG has ever made, and an overarching disgust for people who like to collect things. 

It probably is. I didn't follow the case closely, but every time I post something about LRG on social media, there's that bot that asks to boycott LRG because they fired a community manager or something. And I'm pretty sure I've seen several videos of SmashJT asking for that as well.

[JPF997]

1 hour ago, roots.genoa said:

I'm the editor of a small (French) retrogaming website and unfortunately, I see on a daily basis that kind of rants, including here at AtariAge. I find a bit sad that people who started playing video games before I was born still don't really understand how video games are made and the basics of economy (how licensing works in particular). It's like if they want something, even if they're the only one, then it should be done.

 

It probably is. I didn't follow the case closely, but every time I post something about LRG on social media, there's that bot that asks to boycott LRG because they fired a community manager or something. And I'm pretty sure I've seen several videos of SmashJT asking for that as well.

"Small gaming magazine" could you perhaps be referring to gamekult, just asking.

[Tickled_Pink]

On 9/10/2023 at 2:17 PM, Lostdragon said:

This is an area you have me very intrigued by. 

 

When you talk of "so much good content" from the ST era, you leave me scratching my head somewhat. 

 

 

I was a 529STFM owner at the time and one thing the ST really lacked, was enough Killer-App exclusives, in terms of it's games library. 

 

You see it today, when YT creators etc attempt to compile a list of must have, ST exclusives. 

 

 

Medicore titles like Star Raiders, which wasn't a patch on the A8 version, White Water Madness (a Toobin' clone) get thrown in with shareware clones of titles popular on other systems such as:

 

Creepy (an Atic Attack clone) 

Alien Thing (an Alien Breed cline). 

 

Even the late commercial titles, like Substation (a Doom clone), Rock 'n' Roll Clams (a Bubble Bobble clone), Intruder (by Beyond Good And Evil and Rayman creator, Michel Ancel. A very generic and dull shooter). 

 

Even things like Zero 5 which is a different title to the Jaguar one, don't scream brand recognition. 

 

You say it'd be a crime not to share good ST era content more widely, but I am honestly struggling to think of any ST era exclusive that holds up well today and would have people scrambling to get hold of. 

 

There have been enough voices out there belittling ST ports to the Jaguar (without having any real concept of the work involved to make them happen 🙄), I just struggle to see the widespread commercial appeal of something such as a Min ST which came with some ST exclusives on it. 

 

 

The problem with this view is that it ignores the fact that it was a different era. Back then, while exclusives did exist, they were fairly uncommon. One company, Superior Software, published exclusively AFAIK for the Acorn machines but many of their games were rip-offs of games on other platforms. Repton, one of the best known games for the BBC Micro and one seen as an "Acorn Exclusive" was just a Boulderdash clone.

If you were looking for ST exclusives then you'd have to look earlier in the ST's lifetime. Programmers got to grips with the ST quicker than they did the Amiga because it was an easier machine to program. So, many of the games that eventually came out on the Amiga were initially ST-only titles. But then, once they'd become more familiar with the Amiga, they'd want to push the envelope and see what that machine could do, which often meant developing games that the ST couldn't handle easily.

[JPF997]

17 minutes ago, Tickled_Pink said:

The problem with this view is that it ignores the fact that it was a different era. Back then, while exclusives did exist, they were fairly uncommon. One company, Superior Software, published exclusively AFAIK for the Acorn machines but many of their games were rip-offs of games on other platforms. Repton, one of the best known games for the BBC Micro and one seen as an "Acorn Exclusive" was just a Boulderdash clone.

If you were looking for ST exclusives then you'd have to look earlier in the ST's lifetime. Programmers got to grips with the ST quicker than they did the Amiga because it was an easier machine to program. So, many of the games that eventually came out on the Amiga were initially ST-only titles. But then, once they'd become more familiar with the Amiga, they'd want to push the envelope and see what that machine could do, which often meant developing games that the ST couldn't handle easily.

The Atari ST has a library of over 2500 games, it's easily the largest game library amongst atari systems, no doubt there must be  some cult classics out there that should be re released hidden amongst all those games.

[+x=usr(1536)]

17 minutes ago, Tickled_Pink said:

If you were looking for ST exclusives then you'd have to look earlier in the ST's lifetime. Programmers got to grips with the ST quicker than they did the Amiga because it was an easier machine to program. So, many of the games that eventually came out on the Amiga were initially ST-only titles. But then, once they'd become more familiar with the Amiga, they'd want to push the envelope and see what that machine could do, which often meant developing games that the ST couldn't handle easily.

Not to mention that architectural similarities between the two systems eventually encouraged lazy ports, something that affected both platforms and in some ways started a race to the bottom in terms of software quality later on in the systems' lives.

10 minutes ago, JPF997 said:

The Atari ST has a library of over 2500 games, it's easily the largest game library amongst atari systems, no one can tell me that there aren't some cult classics that should be re released hidden amongst all those games.

How do you propose to overcome the issues behind licensing them?  The majority of software for the ST was third-party, like pretty much every other system in existence.

 

Personally, I'm not really itching to play the ST versions of Star Raiders, Moon Patrol, Super Breakout, etc.  Thing is, those are the ones most likely to see a first-party release since they were first-party titles to begin with.  Everything else has a (possibly significant) cost attached to it just to get it to market.

[Tickled_Pink]

19 minutes ago, JPF997 said:

The Atari ST has a library of over 2500 games, it's easily the largest game library amongst atari systems, no doubt there must be  some cult classics out there that should be re released hidden amongst all those games.

Oh, definitely. Just realised that a game that was initially an ST exclusive was Oids in as much as it didn't appear for the Amiga until someone recreated it for that machine until 2014. A version was released for the Mac 3 years after the ST version, but we don't really count the Mac for games. 😉

 

I would like to dust off one my STs again to play games I never finished, like Dungeon Master, Carrier Command (I'd actually developed a strategy that put me on the verge of victory but for some reason got distracted by other games before I beat it) and Midwinter.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Tickled_Pink

[JPF997]

16 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Not to mention that architectural similarities between the two systems eventually encouraged lazy ports, something that affected both platforms and in some ways started a race to the bottom in terms of software quality later on in the systems' lives.

How do you propose to overcome the issues behind licensing them?  The majority of software for the ST was third-party, like pretty much every other system in existence.

 

Personally, I'm not really itching to play the ST versions of Star Raiders, Moon Patrol, Super Breakout, etc.  Thing is, those are the ones most likely to see a first-party release since they were first-party titles to begin with.  Everything else has a (possibly significant) cost attached to it just to get it to market.

The easiest way to overcome licensing problem's is to  just buy those licences, problem solved 😂, ok but seriously just how expensive can ST licence's be, unlike the Amiga no one has ever  made an ST mini, Im guessing the market doesn't think of that the  ST and it's games are as valuable as say the NES and the Master system, it shouldn't be that hard for Atari to get they're hand's on those third party game's.

[Tickled_Pink]

13 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Not to mention that architectural similarities between the two systems eventually encouraged lazy ports, something that affected both platforms and in some ways started a race to the bottom in terms of software quality later on in the systems' lives.

How do you propose to overcome the issues behind licensing them?  The majority of software for the ST was third-party, like pretty much every other system in existence.

 

Personally, I'm not really itching to play the ST versions of Star Raiders, Moon Patrol, Super Breakout, etc.  Thing is, those are the ones most likely to see a first-party release since they were first-party titles to begin with.  Everything else has a (possibly significant) cost attached to it just to get it to market.

You just reminded me of what I was going to add in my previous post before I went for a toilet break. The big problem is that Atari owned very little of the IP released for the ST. And most of these third parties have either gone under years ago or been bought and forgotten by other companies. Some have left a paper trail that could be followed, but others? It's possible that copyright returned to the original authors if the companies went bust, except where development was in-house.

Some companies are still being legally registered. Last I looked, Ocean Software was still being registered at Companies House by their owners.

[Tickled_Pink]

4 minutes ago, JPF997 said:

The easiest way to overcome licensing problem's is to  just buy those licences, problem solved 😂, ok but seriously just how expensive can ST licence's be, unlike the Amiga no one has ever  made an ST mini, Im guessing the market doesn't think of that the  ST and it's games are as valuable as say the NES and the Master system, it shouldn't be that hard for Atari to get they're hand's on those third party game's.

See my response above. 😉

But, yeah. IF the IP owners can be tracked down, they could be relatively cheap but there's a caveat to that. Many companies will only sign such deals with the help of lawyers and that might make a deal uneconomical.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Tickled_Pink

[theboyfromanotherplanet]

11 minutes ago, Tickled_Pink said:

You just reminded me of what I was going to add in my previous post before I went for a toilet break. The big problem is that Atari owned very little of the IP released for the ST. And most of these third parties have either gone under years ago or been bought and forgotten by other companies. Some have left a paper trail that could be followed, but others? It's possible that copyright returned to the original authors if the companies went bust, except where development was in-house.

Some companies are still being legally registered. Last I looked, Ocean Software was still being registered at Companies House by their owners.

Don't Atari SA already own most/all of the Ocean games already?

 

I'd quite like Atari to contract Jeff Minter to write a new game for the ST/Jag. Or if not a new one (assuming it's not financially viable), trawl through his archives and polish off an unfinished game - I'm sure there are some. The ST needs more Yak

Edited September 12, 2023 by theboyfromanotherplanet

[Tickled_Pink]

5 minutes ago, theboyfromanotherplanet said:

Don't Atari SA already own most/all of the Ocean games already?

According to Wikipedia, they did but sold them to Namco Bandai in 2009.

That's a shame because Ocean had a lot of quality IP.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Tickled_Pink

[JPF997]

5 minutes ago, theboyfromanotherplanet said:

Don't Atari SA already own most/all of the Ocean games already?

 

I'd quite like Atari to contract Jeff Minter to write a new game for the ST/Jag. Or if not a new one (assuming it's not financially viable), trawl through his archives and polish off an unfinished game - I'm sure there are some. The ST needs more Yak

Yes Atari owns  Ocean software and micropose, a lot of potential for rereleases right there, also speaking of making new games for old hardware what about making more homebrew for the falcon, from what fans say it's supposedly one of the best piece's of hardware Atari ever made, severely underutilized.

[theboyfromanotherplanet]

7 minutes ago, JPF997 said:

Yes Atari owns  Ocean software and micropose, a lot of potential for rereleases right there, also speaking of making new games for old hardware what about making more homebrew for the falcon, from what fans say it's supposedly one of the best piece's of hardware Atari ever made, severely underutilized.

Now the Falcon would make a good mini. I'll never be able to afford an original. Is it still owned by C-LAB though? I bet much of the technical documentation has been lost but AFAIK current emulation is near 100% accurate.

 

If anything, I think something for the Jag is more likely though

Edited September 12, 2023 by theboyfromanotherplanet

[Tickled_Pink]

16 minutes ago, JPF997 said:

Yes Atari owns  Ocean software and micropose, a lot of potential for rereleases right there, also speaking of making new games for old hardware what about making more homebrew for the falcon, from what fans say it's supposedly one of the best piece's of hardware Atari ever made, severely underutilized.

Had a look at the Companies House records and Ocean's last owners are listed as Namco. Unfortunately, they've let the company name registration lapse but some joker has created an Ocean Software Limited in South Wales and it's always been a dormant company, meaning he's been parking on the name since 2013. A bit like those people who buy domain names hoping someone will need it and buy it from them. It looks like they were renamed Namco Bandai UK Ltd, in the same way that Psygnosis became Sony Computer Entertainment Europe a few years after their purchase. So, no, they're not owned by Atari according to what's in Companies House's records.

[JPF997]

21 minutes ago, Tickled_Pink said:

Had a look at the Companies House records and Ocean's last owners are listed as Namco. Unfortunately, they've let the company name registration lapse but some joker has created an Ocean Software Limited in South Wales and it's always been a dormant company, meaning he's been parking on the name since 2013. A bit like those people who buy domain names hoping someone will need it and buy it from them. It looks like they were renamed Namco Bandai UK Ltd, in the same way that Psygnosis became Sony Computer Entertainment Europe a few years after their purchase. So, no, they're not owned by Atari according to what's in Companies House's records.

I've found the reason for this confusion, in 2022 Atari renewed the Ocean software trademark, it seems like the actual company ( that once upon a time was also know as Atari UK) is owned by Bandai Namco but the rights to the Ocean name and a lot of the old ip's are still owned by Atari SA, I know Atari's corporate history can be very confusing some times ( especially because of everything that went down in the late 2000s which inevitably led to the 2013 bankruptcy).

[carlsson]

1 hour ago, JPF997 said:

The Atari ST has a library of over 2500 games, it's easily the largest game library amongst atari systems,

Hm. Atarimania has 11,000 entries for A8. Some are hacks, homebrew, type-ins etc but surely not 9000+ of those belonging to those categories?