can someone point me to the least expensive, yet still legit, SIO2PC device?

[newTIboyRob]

Right Larry, my PC upstairs, Atari downstairs...

[dmsc]

Hi!

5 hours ago, newTIboyRob said:

So with my 410 days sadly now in the rear view mirror, I now need to turn to the 64KRAM plug-in, outer style expansion piece and SIO2PC USB device combination for the 600XL.  A member on another thread commented that, in the past, and perhaps still even now, sometimes the latter had chips that were bogus. Naturally I want to avoid this. So I have some questions before I take this what I hope will be about $66 combination plunge. Please go gentle on me, and remember that I am new to this concept and still trying to crystallize things I've never had to encounter heretofore. So just kindly read and point out what needs clarification or correction in my thinking and or/connection information.

 

First off:

• The 64K RAM piece is necessary for use with the SIO2PC USB device, and both are needed.  The RAM is the easy part I understand, as the one I will be buying on Ebay is self powered and simply plugs into the 600 XL's rear parallel buss port. This will upgrade my stock 16K to 64 RAM memory in like under a minute. (Though it does block that port, I wouldn't be using anything in that slot anyway.) 

 

1: No, you don't need the 64K RAM - it will make your life easier and you will be able to use a lot more software, but it is not needed to use a SIO2PC.

 

2: There is no "legitimate" SIO2PC. The SIO2PC is simply a circuit to connect your Atari to a PC - any such device is as legitimate as any other. 20 years ago, all PC have a serial port, so you simply needed a voltage conversion (from 12V RS232 to 5V Atari) to do the connection. But computers today don't have serial ports, so you need a USB to serial adapter - but this is easy thanks to the Arduino community that uses USB to 5V serial adapters to program the little micros.

 

3: The SIO2PC software in your PC (for example, RespectQT) emulates a disk drive, so you simply mount ATR (disk image files) in yout PC and your Atari sees a standard disk drive, can boot from it and load programs. This is all that it is to it.

 

So again, my advice is that you simply buy a really cheap USB to serial adapter board and use it to connect the Atari to your PC, using the RespectQT software. After you have familiarity to how to use your device you can upgrade your RAM and perhaps buy a more expensive device, I personally recommend sticking to the Fujinet or the AVG cart, both have great support from the community here.

 

Have Fun!

 

[newTIboyRob]

In the link of the photo of the SDrive Max that beeble provided, I am trying to understand the connections. They say:

1 USB Male A to Male B cord (any USB charger will work to provide power to your unit.  Some power strips even have USB charge ports built-in to them.)

 

So the SDrive Max plugs into the Atari, eventually, via its connected Molex cable end.  The what-we-think-of-as standard USB cable (the typical one that plugs in at the back of the PC to run keyboards, mice etc)  plugs into the PC  to transfer the data.  So the other end of that USB cable, far right with the yellow mark then plugs into the SDrive Max?   I thought I remember that the SDrive Max doesn't need external power; it is supplied by the Atari?  

 

 Can someone please clarify all the above for me with the cables in that photo?

[Jfcatari]

1 hour ago, newTIboyRob said:

In the link of the photo of the SDrive Max that beeble provided, I am trying to understand the connections. They say:

1 USB Male A to Male B cord (any USB charger will work to provide power to your unit.  Some power strips even have USB charge ports built-in to them.)

 

So the SDrive Max plugs into the Atari, eventually, via its connected Molex cable end.  The what-we-think-of-as standard USB cable (the typical one that plugs in at the back of the PC to run keyboards, mice etc)  plugs into the PC  to transfer the data.  So the other end of that USB cable, far right with the yellow mark then plugs into the SDrive Max?   I thought I remember that the SDrive Max doesn't need external power; it is supplied by the Atari?  

 

 Can someone please clarify all the above for me with the cables in that photo?

 

I have hand built Sdrive Max devices if you are interested.

 

https://sites.google.com/view/jfcretro/sdrive-max?authuser=0

 

 

[chevymad]

While I like the convenience of fujinet not having to be near your pc or having to walk up a flight of stairs to the pc. The AVG cart also upgrading your ram besides giving you a drive emulator sounds like a 2fer to me. 

[mimo]

8 hours ago, Larry said:

Has anyone here used cassettes with the AVG (or SUB) CARTs?  Can you describe what they can/can't do?  Supports CAS files?  I know that the SDrive Max and APE can do those, but was not aware the AVG CART could.  The memory upgrade (including the fill-in of the missing 48K on a 600XL) seems like a strong factor for buying an AVG.  But it is a fairly expensive proposition -- well over $100 including cables and shipping.  The SIO2PC is the "low priced leader," but having the computers in different rooms is a real issue.

I have used it to load cassettes, just standard cas files. It works very well.
THing with the AVG cart is that with the add on cables it becomes a multicart, ram upgrade, Sdrive type device and a multi OS.
Add those up individually and I bet it's more than $100

[TGB1718]

8 hours ago, newTIboyRob said:

So the other end of that USB cable, far right with the yellow mark then plugs into the SDrive Max?   I thought I remember that the SDrive Max doesn't need external power; it is supplied by the Atari?  

 

 Can someone please clarify all the above for me with the cables in that photo?

You can power some S-Drive's from the Atari, I prefer external power and that's what the one in the photo

looks like it's made to do (You can't have both power connections at the same time), personally, I don't

connect the Atari +5V line and power from a USB charger.

 

The ones that power from the Atari obviously can't be used/setup unless the Atari is powered on, I'm not

too sure, but I think some people have said the S-Drive doesn't initialize in time sometimes when powering up

so have to do a reset to boot.

 

So in answer to your question, one cable to the Atari, the USB to a power source for the device.

 

[newTIboyRob]

I am really hoping to just power from the Atari, you know have the Sdrive plugged in, and just turn on the Atari.  So you think it would time out then you are saying?  But then could you just hit the reset button to boot, or would you have to keep powering the Atari off and on til the device "takes"?

 

If that wasn't possible and I needed to use a USB to a power source for the device... you mean one USB cable end connects to the SDrive Max and the other USB cable end just connects to a separate unit which then just gets plugged into the wall, separate from the Atari?  Would the one I need be expensive for this?

 

As I say, I'd really just use the Atari power, if it still is possible!

[TGB1718]

33 minutes ago, newTIboyRob said:

As I say, I'd really just use the Atari power, if it still is possible!

The one shown in the photo says it's powered by USB, you just need a cheap USB PSU,

the ones that have a USB connector on them, something like this old iPad PSU will do fine.

 

 

[HiassofT]

11 hours ago, dmsc said:

1: No, you don't need the 64K RAM - it will make your life easier and you will be able to use a lot more software, but it is not needed to use a SIO2PC.

While that is correct from a technical standpoint I'd say having 48k (or 64k) is a hard requirement if you want to use disk drive functionality (i.e a DOS) and do anything useful with it.

 

On a 16k machine you typically have about 8k RAM left once DOS is loaded so there's not much space left for programs (very small programs may still work) or data.

 

Using the Atari without a DOS is not really feasible either, you could load cassette (CAS) files but saving will only work with the AtariMax SIO2PC USB interface plus APE - the other SIO2PC interfaces (and I also think all the SDrive/SIO2SD/... standalone devices) don't support saving cassette data to files.

 

so long,

 

Hias

Edited September 25, 2023 by HiassofT

[danwinslow]

I have always used one of these: https://www.atarimax.com/sio2pc/documentation/
The $34 one, to be precise. But, you need to have a PC physically connected, so I am just mentioning in case the location of your PC changes. You use the provided software to load up ATR files on your PC and then they look like Atari drives to the Atari.

 

Never mind, should have read entire thread.

Edited September 25, 2023 by danwinslow

[+Larry]

I don't believe that anyone has mentioned another storage ATR device -- the SIO2SD.  Developed some time ago and has fewer features than SDrive Max, but typically cheaper and may do everything that you want.  I don't know about using CAS files with SIO2SD.  I haven't used cassettes/files since about 1982.  Lotharek (in Poland) sells these.  About $23+shipping for the base model, but another $10.00 or so for an SIO connecting cable.  These are listed under "Atari 8bit mass storage devices."  I have both these devices, and I prefer using the SIO2SD, but prefer APE to them both, so I rarely use them. 

 

https://lotharek.pl/products.php?id=16

 

Edit: Another possible lower cost alternative is the UNO Cart.  It can load many standard ATR files, but has limitations explained in this thread: 

The UNO was popular before the AVGCART, but has largely been replaced by AVG.  The OP might be able to buy one from someone who upgraded to the AVG. (?)  Again, I don't know about UNO and cassette files.

 

 

[dmsc]

Hi!

3 hours ago, HiassofT said:

While that is correct from a technical standpoint I'd say having 48k (or 64k) is a hard requirement if you want to use disk drive functionality (i.e a DOS) and do anything useful with it.

 

On a 16k machine you typically have about 8k RAM left once DOS is loaded so there's not much space left for programs (very small programs may still work) or data.

 

Using the Atari without a DOS is not really feasible either, you could load cassette (CAS) files but saving will only work with the AtariMax SIO2PC USB interface plus APE - the other SIO2PC interfaces (and I also think all the SDrive/SIO2SD/... standalone devices) don't support saving cassette data to files.

Yes, of course, but I was thinking on using SIO2PC to load games or load/save little BASIC programs. Also, with LiteDOS you will have 10800 bytes free in BASIC, enough to test a lot of (simpler) programs.

 

Have Fun!

 

[newTIboyRob]

Yikes, now considering @HiassofT's contribution, my being already indecisive/confused just got amplified!  For those folks who are just joining the discussion at this juncture, I'll just post a summary of what I am looking and hoping for here. I realize there is and will be a wide range of differing opinions, granted, but eventually if enough people narrow this thing down and essentially most are saying the same thing about what is likely the best way I can accomplish the following 3 things, in the simplest, most basic, bare bones, direct and least expensive way- which, btw, I truly don't think I'm asking too much of the right device to do, considering what these things actually can do.  In this game of Duck Hunt, I was just about set to pull the trigger on the SDRive Max, until the red flag of @HiassofT   stopped the bird in mid flight:

 

A) a device/s that will enable me to download Atari files on my upstairs PC via a standard USB cable connection or other simple connection from PC to device, so spreadsheets such as BCALC, and maybe once in a blue moon a game like Zork can be downloaded into the device and stored as simple files.

 

B) a device where I can play back homemade programs like the recent ill-fated Homecalc previously stored on cassettes so as to convert the tapes to .CAS files  which then I can then store, load and run without issue on said device (thus, full support of recording and play back of .CAS files or however these tapes are encoded file-extension wise), the device directly replacing my 410, the entire tape concept altogether, and essentially acting like a disk drive, or at the very least just a place to save load and run the tape file data, with no DOS, no BASIC cartridge, just to load and use from the embedded blue screened already built-in the 600XL basic that we all know.

 

C) same device can then be taken downstairs where my 600 XL resides, be powered by the Atari only, sans external power, simply plugged in via Molex in the peripheral slot with no additional power nor cords, and hopefully time out/synching issues either are nonexistent or occur infrequently. Then, just, go.....

 

There you have the full description, neatly tightened. Thus far it hasn't been as easy as A-B-C I see. But each contribution still brings possibilities.   What do we think of Larry's UNO suggestion, if someone knows if it can support the use of tape files that is?  While I certainly can wait the 3 weeks for an overseas gadget, I was hoping more for one shipped from the USA so as to conclude proceedings more quickly.

 

 Budget of between $30 to about $75.  Pretend it was your choice/decision, what would you go with?   I know we're gonna nail this thing, even if in the end I didn't quite nail the Homecalc type in program!

 

Per above... Using the Atari without a DOS is not really feasible either, you could load cassette (CAS) files but saving will only work with the AtariMax SIO2PC USB interface plus APE - the other SIO2PC interfaces (and I also think all the SDrive/SIO2SD/... standalone devices) don't support saving cassette data to files.

 

....What are we talking price wise with the AtariMax SIO2PC USB interface plus APE?

Edited September 25, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[BillC]

17 minutes ago, newTIboyRob said:

Yikes, now considering @HiassofT's contribution, my being already indecisive/confused just got amplified!  For those folks who are just joining the discussion at this juncture, I'll just post a summary of what I am looking and hoping for here. I realize there is and will be a wide range of differing opinions, granted, but eventually if enough people narrow this thing down and essentially most are saying the same thing about what is likely the best way I can accomplish the following 3 things, in the simplest, most basic, bare bones, direct and least expensive way- which, btw, I truly don't think I'm asking too much of the right device to do, considering what these things actually can do.  In this game of Duck Hunt, I was just about set to pull the trigger on the SDRive Max, until the red flag of @HiassofT   stopped the bird in mid flight:

 

A) a device/s that will enable me to download Atari files on my upstairs PC via a standard USB cable connection or other simple connection from PC to device, so spreadsheets such as BCALC, and maybe once in a blue moon a game like Zork can be downloaded into the device and stored as simple files.

 

B) a device where I can play back homemade programs like the recent ill-fated Homecalc previously stored on cassettes so as to convert the tapes to .CAS files  which then I can then store, load and run without issue on said device (thus, full support of recording and play back of .CAS files or however these tapes are encoded file-extension wise), the device directly replacing my 410, the entire tape concept altogether, and essentially acting like a disk drive, or at the very least just a place to save load and run the tape file data, with no DOS, no BASIC cartridge, just to load and use from the embedded blue screened already built-in the 600XL basic that we all know.

 

C) same device can then be taken downstairs where my 600 XL resides, be powered by the Atari only, sans external power, simply plugged in via Molex in the peripheral slot with no additional power nor cords, and hopefully time out/synching issues either are nonexistent or occur infrequently. Then, just, go.....

 

There you have the full description, neatly tightened. Thus far it hasn't been as easy as A-B-C I see. But each contribution still brings possibilities.   What do we think of Larry's UNO suggestion, if someone knows if it can support the use of tape files that is?  While I certainly can wait the 3 weeks for an overseas gadget, I was hoping more for one shipped from the USA so as to conclude proceedings more quickly.

 

 Budget of between $30 to about $75.  Pretend it was your choice/decision, what would you go with?   I know we're gonna nail this thing, even if in the end I didn't quite nail the Homecalc type in program!

 

Per above... Using the Atari without a DOS is not really feasible either, you could load cassette (CAS) files but saving will only work with the AtariMax SIO2PC USB interface plus APE - the other SIO2PC interfaces (and I also think all the SDrive/SIO2SD/... standalone devices) don't support saving cassette data to files.

 

....What are we talking price wise with the AtariMax SIO2PC USB interface plus APE?

You have already posted that you want your Atari/PC to be in different locations, an SIO2PC device is not compatible with this configuration.

To have them in different locations you will require a drive emulator with local storage(SD/CF card, many devices) or WIFI/network connection(Fujinet).

An alternative is to acquire an older/inexpensive computer/laptop that could be used with AspeQT and an SIO2PC in the same location as the 600XL.

[deffroe]

I bought components myself to make my SDrive Max.   I'm in the UK but you'll find equivelent parts where you are.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B086HDRJ9G/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

KEYESTUDIO UN0 R3 PLUS Rev3 Microcontroller Board CP2102 cost £14

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01EUVJYME/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

ELEGOO UNO R3 2.8 Inches TFT Touch Screen with SD Card, cost £16

 

You will need an SIO cable though.  I see on TBA they are $15.  A quick currency converstion make the components about $37 ish.

 

Not a massive saving and you won't have a case but a saving never the less.

 

(Edit...I replied to a post on an unrefreshed page..not even sure who I was responding to...feel free to ignore.)

Edited September 25, 2023 by deffroe
Replying to an unrefreshed page

[TGB1718]

1 hour ago, newTIboyRob said:

A) a device/s that will enable me to download Atari files on my upstairs PC via a standard USB cable connection or other simple connection from PC to device, so spreadsheets such as BCALC, and maybe once in a blue moon a game like Zork can be downloaded into the device and stored as simple files.

S-Drive Max, you store disk images (.ATR files) on a micro SD card, if your programming, you will need a DOS of some sort.

You can save typed-in programs to the .ATR's, for programs you wrote using the cassette can be saved to disk, no need for

.CAS files with it.

 

That covers B) too

1 hour ago, newTIboyRob said:

just to load and use from the embedded blue screened already built-in the 600XL basic that we all know.

Only programs that don't require basic, there is no interactive screen without BASIC or some other CART.

 

Apart from the external power supply in C) it covers that too. External PSU for S-Drive is no big deal, makes it easier

to install the .ATR's you want before you power on the XL.

 

So my recommendation is 64K upgrade and an S-Drive Max with external PSU. (I'm sure others will also advise)

You will quickly forget you ever wanted .CAS functionality even though S-Drive will load them.  

 

[newTIboyRob]

TGB.. I wouldn't be doing a 64K upgrade myself. The 64K RAM expansion cartridge is $41 where I am and that Sdrive is somewhere around $75 total with tax and shipping, then the external PSU... only adds a tad more to the cost, but then all in all it would kind of take me out of price range with that combo, yes?  I don't know anyone locally here who would do an internal upgrade (hence my desire not to go DYI but get the external 64K expansion piece.)

 

I guess part of challenge here also is to see if I can still get something to be in the $30-75 total range, that is, again, if possible. Maybe it isn't.

[newTIboyRob]

16 minutes ago, TGB1718 said:

S-Drive Max, you store disk images (.ATR files) on a micro SD card, if your programming, you will need a DOS of some sort.

You can save typed-in programs to the .ATR's, for programs you wrote using the cassette can be saved to disk, no need for

.CAS files with it.

 Got a little confused here.  I could still turn on the Atari as usual, type in a new program, and save it to the SDrive Max? (Wasn't sure how/if DOS needs to be involved, as I was just used to CSAVE on cassette.)

   But for programs I've already typed in and are currently stored on cassettes, I could still bring those into the PC and convert them to files that the SDrive Max could play back?

[TGB1718]

You would need DOS, the bare Atari's have no internal DOS, so have no way to load/save

programs from BASIC (or any other language) with a DOS of some sort.

 

All the OS has is a boot loader that reads up to the first 3 sectors which a programmer will use

to load DOS/games/utilities etc.

 

For programs you have typed in, you would still need to copy them onto a .ATR disk image

on your PC, Have you tried using Altirra ?

 

 

It's so easy, you can download the DOS of your choice in .ATR form, load the image into D1: and

boot Altirra, can create disk images, sat D2:, format using the DOS in D1: then copy your files onto that

image and then copy the .ATR to the SD card to use in the S-Drive, when you format  a new disk (image)

you have the option to install DOS so the new disk is bootable.

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by TGB1718

[+orpheuswaking]

I may have missed it, but where are you located?

[newTIboyRob]

New York

[_The Doctor__]

New York is a big state, if you play your cards right, someone might surprise you with a nicety.

I'd narrow that down slightly and you might have someone nearby who will be a bit of an Atari Angel.

These are the roots of the old fashioned users groups. Atarians helping Atarians

[Tillek]

Yeah, I second that (finding someone closer).  I mean, I'm sure someone nearby could make quick work of a 64k memory upgrade on a 600xl for you.  Plus if they have the gadgets you're considering you can actually try them to see what works best for you.

 

 

 

 

 

[HiassofT]

10 hours ago, dmsc said:

Also, with LiteDOS you will have 10800 bytes free in BASIC, enough to test a lot of (simpler) programs.

TBH I wouldn't recommend any newcomer to use LiteDOS.

 

Thanks to it's proprietary format it'll just result in follow-up threads "how can I read all those ATRs with DOS 2.x/MyDOS/SpartaDOS".

 

Sorry to be harsh, but LiteDOS falls into the same category as DOS 3 and DOS 4 and no one should use it if they ever want to access files stored with it from some other DOS (if you're fine with vendor-lock-in then of course be happy to use it and have 2k more RAM).

 

so long,

 

Hias