a refresher of 4 carts: TE II, TI Extended Basic, Parsec, TI Invaders

[newTIboyRob]

So I just today dug out the ole 4A out of a 3 year storage hibernation.  I could have sworn I had the TI Extended Basic and TE II carts, but they were nowhere to be found. (Of course I will find them AFTER I rebuy them..) But I could use some cartridge guidance, so I thought I would explain how I would like to use my TI these days and perhaps you could offer your thoughts and suggestions.

 

The first thing I was painfully reminded of upon booting her up is how even-slower-than-molasses the basic is on this thing. I mean it is SLOW. Reeeealy slow. Since it is much slower than what  I am used to in fact, and since I have been spoiled by the quicker speed of the other vintage computers in my collection, all I really envsion doing with the 4a programming-wise is to type in some basic programs from the many programming books and old magazine articles I held onto over the years, and save those programs to tape. Thus I don't want to do any heavy ultra complex, innovative programming by myself... just simply do what we did in the old days: typing in the programs from the magazines (and usually wait an issue or two for the corrections!).  That being said, my first question is:

 

1) Do I really need the TI Extended Basic cartridge for that, or would I get by just fine with regular TI Basic?

 

2) I do have the speech snyth module connected though, and would like to have one cartridge to take advantage of this concept. If I do choose the Extended Basic cart, I would get a nice taste of that with it, correct?

 

3) The TE II cart, from what I recall, is even more heavy duty oriented into speech driven programs, it being a speech cartridge... , but is it exclusively for speech programs, or does this cart also contain some elements of the TI Extended Basic cartridge, making it the better speech-related cart I should choose?

 

So to sum up 1-3... which of those 2 carts would I get the most mileage out of, in hearing a little speech snyth AND doing the type of programming I mentioned?  The consensus will dictate the winner here.  

 

 

4) Parsec is just... well, cool. Still. Always.  This game a great use of the speech snyth too!   I found the homemade joystick connector a forum member was great enough to make me a few years ago.  Only question here is... for this cart, can I use the standard Atari 2600 black joysticks I have, or do they have to be TI specific joysticks to play?

 

5) TI Invaders... I just want to have it again, for one of the few actual "video" games I will own, based on the graphics alone.

 

 

I would MUCH rather buy a few of these from a forum member than on Ebay, paying those recently even more than usual astronomical shipping charges. More importantly, I'd rather simply stay in the community. I am aware that some of the special carts above can get quite pricey if bought individually, but I thought I would try here with someone who maybe has spares, or doesn't use these anymore, and maybe we can work something out?   I thought it at least worth a shot. Can you shed some light here?   Thanks!

 

P.S.  There is still a chance I still may find the TE II and Extended basic in the basement, but I wouldn't bet the ranch on that.

Edited September 27, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[newTIboyRob]

(The above post was just a carry-over from my same one in the Classic Computing section which I in hindsight realized I should have just posted here, but missed the boat, sorry.)   After a great first response over there, I just wanted to continue the discussion here. I am first just trying to determine which of the 2 carts, TI Extended Basic or TE II is more up my alley as far as the way I would be using the computer based on my above post. After digesting the key answers a bit, I just want to see if you agree with me that TI Extended Basic is actually more of what I am describing, thus the choice I should go with:

 

It was mentioned that:

 

TE II is more of a telecommunications thing.... with a custom speech system built into it via the SPEECH device.  But since it will just be me alone, only one ended not tele-communication, this doesn't quite sound as the something I am describing for my needs?

 

TI Extended basic has the benefits of more commands and faster execution over regular TI basic.... well, great, TI Basic could sure use those!  It uses the limited vocab built into the Speech Snyth, but you can also use codes to change things up a bit. (I assume by that means that you can still change pitch of phrases as can be done with TE II, but someone please verify this for me?)   But either way, this cart would give a nice representation of the speech capabilities of the TI.  Furthermore, since there is a text to speech library with this, you can perform custom speech construction which is similar to the TE II's SPEECH device anyway.  (Thus essentially negating my need for TE II cart.)

 

So when you put it all together, the "winner" I was referring to (though I realize they are just different), but  the winner, as in, for what fits my situation best, is the TI Extended basic cartridge, yes?

 

If this is so, we can eliminate my search/need for the TE II cart, which would then leave us with just the 3: TI Extended Basic, Parsec, TI Invaders...all pretty common titles, I am aware, but still would like.

 

Anyone?

 

 

 

 

 

  

     

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[RickyDean]

Welcome back to the TI. You have new choices today, I would read the pinned faq, and get a lot of good information, as a start. You can purchase a device called a FinalGrom99 from arcadeshopper, and load it with a plethora of cartridges, including TE II, Extended Basic, so forth. You can find these here on Atariage when you get yours in the mail. You can to your hearts content, work with speech, games, etc. without buying a bunch of cartridges, unless you just want to collect them. 

Remember, FinalGrom99, not FinalRom99, as it is not as versatile, as the former. 

Edited September 27, 2023 by RickyDean
added content

[+OLD CS1]

51 minutes ago, RickyDean said:

Remember, FinalGrom99, not FinalRom99, as it is not as versatile, as the former. 

The latter is actually the FlashROM 99, so that should help sort it: the FinalGROM 99 is the FINAL cartridge you will ever need.

[+Ksarul]

On advantages/disadvantages of the TE-II cartridge, the speech subsystem is actually a pretty versatile extension of TI BASIC. There are actually a few dozen programs out there that actually require it to work properly (that's not a lot, but I thought it might be an angle most people hadn't considered here). For general purpose use, Extended BASIC would be a somewhat more versatile option for everything except speech.

 

The FinalGROM cartridge is definitely a good option to use if you are not looking to build a collection of original (and/or homebrew) cartridges. @tmop69 compiled over 600 BASIC and Extended BASIC games into cartridge games, so with those and all of the purposely written new software, there are now significantly more homebrews out there than there are original cartridge titles from BITD.

[+OLD CS1]

9 hours ago, Ksarul said:

The FinalGROM cartridge is definitely a good option to use if you are not looking to build a collection of original (and/or homebrew) cartridges. @tmop69 compiled over 600 BASIC and Extended BASIC games into cartridge games, so with those and all of the purposely written new software, there are now significantly more homebrews out there than there are original cartridge titles from BITD.

Bear in mind, too, that all compiled programs and many recent homebrew cartridges require a 32k expansion.

[+FarmerPotato]

Quote

So I just today dug out the ole 4A out of a 3 year storage hibernation.  I could have sworn I had the TI Extended Basic and TE II carts, but they were nowhere to be found.

Like others says, FinalGROM will set you up for everything. Me, I get by with just FlashROM 99. 

TI twin joysticks have only 4 directions/Fire each, so any 4A adapter will be adequate.  I prefer Atari and Epic (sp?) sticks. (Beware: a few games only respond to Joystick #2. Grrr. )  Parsec accepts either #1 or 2. 
 

 

XB is faster at most things, but folks do write programs that must be run from TI BASIC. (Hell's Halls, Marcus of M..)  I spent my youth trying to overcome the 4A's shortcomings, and XB was  essential. 
 

There is a Text-to-Speech utility for XB that provides the speech of  TE2.  I forget where it is. And it's a lot of fun. I used to go to the library just to  use TE2. It has been a ton of fun at shows when folks program some speech to run on a loop, and others come along and modify  it.. very quickly becoming in poor taste. 🙂

 

Personally, I like having a few physical cartridges next to my 4A, chiefly the ones you mentioned, plus MiniMemory and Editor Assembler. Which you can get in FinalGROM anyway. 

 

If you're: 1. buying any sidecar to add 32K RAM... and 2. can get your hands on a Raspberry (any Pi 3 and up) look at  TiPi too. It's amazing and will be the easiest way to get software from the network. I can't imagine using real iron without it. (I can remember, actually,  it's called a  serial cable...)

 

[+arcadeshopper]

26 minutes ago, FarmerPotato said:

Like others says, FinalGROM will set you up for everything. Me, I get by with just FlashROM 99. 

TI twin joysticks have only 4 directions/Fire each, so any 4A adapter will be adequate.  I prefer Atari and Epic (sp?) sticks. (Beware: a few games only respond to Joystick #2. Grrr. )  Parsec accepts either #1 or 2. 
 

 

XB is faster at most things, but folks do write programs that must be run from TI BASIC. (Hell's Halls, Marcus of M..)  I spent my youth trying to overcome the 4A's shortcomings, and XB was  essential. 
 

There is a Text-to-Speech utility for XB that provides the speech of  TE2.  I forget where it is. And it's a lot of fun. I used to go to the library just to  use TE2. It has been a ton of fun at shows when folks program some speech to run on a loop, and others come along and modify  it.. very quickly becoming in poor taste. 🙂

 

Personally, I like having a few physical cartridges next to my 4A, chiefly the ones you mentioned, plus MiniMemory and Editor Assembler. Which you can get in FinalGROM anyway. 

 

If you're: 1. buying any sidecar to add 32K RAM... and 2. can get your hands on a Raspberry (any Pi 3 and up) look at  TiPi too. It's amazing and will be the easiest way to get software from the network. I can't imagine using real iron without it. (I can remember, actually,  it's called a  serial cable...)

 

 

text to speech is in the FAQ and whtech

[newTIboyRob]

All good points, e.g. @OLD CS1

 

Thanks guys for all the gadget recommendations, but after going what I just went through with my VIC 20 AND even way more so with my Atari 600 XL in this area, there is NO way I am going near sidecar 32K ram expansions and these FINAL carts and the like, though they definitely sound cool. I know they are, as Spicoli would say, awesome, totally awesome, but the pond is dry over in these parts, so for now I will just stick with the antiquated-s that I have:

Console Writer cart, Radio Shack tape deck, a nice SIMS spreadsheet usable within memory confines, [soon to be TI invaders, Parsec, Extended Basic carts if need rebuying.]  Looks like TE II I can pass on if the Extended Basic can and will talk to me, which it can. I think I do have the special joystick adapter for the 2600 stix to play the 2 game carts.  But if I hit the lottery...you'll be hearing from me again in this department.

 

But please, oh please tell me that the Extended Basic cart can still be used on a stock TI 99 4/a, (without expansion)???   

 

Just while we're all here, and though it's unrelated... is it true there really isn't a practical, simple way to get 80 column in standard TI basic on a stock 4a?   Like when typing in programs in Ti Basic after booting.  (Maybe there isn't, but wasn't totally sure, as that was the case essentially with the VIC-20 without super playing around with it... so are we also just stuck here with those huge 1st grade-like letters?  Simultaneously both charming and annoying I suppose, but I would say it tips more towards the latter in all practicality.)

Edited September 28, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[+OLD CS1]

17 minutes ago, newTIboyRob said:

But please, oh please tell me that the Extended Basic cart can still be used on a stock TI 99 4/a, (without expansion)???

Yes.  But it will not be able to load programs over about 12k, and may not run some larger programs which require more memory when run.  Again, YMMV.

17 minutes ago, newTIboyRob said:

practical, simple way to get 80 column in standard TI basic on a stock 4a?   Like when typing in programs in Ti Basic after booting.

Practical and simple is subjective but, in short, not stock.  The F18A can provide 80 columns to a VGA monitor, and with @senior_falcon's GEM extension to Extended BASIC, you could run 80 columns.  However, you need 32k for that.  Nonetheless, a lot of useful programs and utilities, such as Multiplan, have been adapted to use the F18A's 80-column mode, but also requiring a disk system.

17 minutes ago, newTIboyRob said:

VIC-20 without super playing around with it... so are we also just stuck here with those huge 1st grade-like letters?  Simultaneously both charming and annoying I suppose, but I would say it tips more towards the latter in all practicality.

The best answers to that are what you got in the Commodore sub... suck it up

 

I am not sure what you went through with the 800XL, but others in your shoes can give you a better subjective analysis of what it would mean for you to build a minimally expanded system in the direction you want: FG99 + 32k + F18A to program XB in 80 columns, or an FG99 + TIPI + F18A to make the giant leap forward (all of which can be had for under $300, and with the best support network on the Internet, right here.)

 

But, at some point you have to accept that our 8-/16-bit Home Computers' hardware were not meant to be one-to-one replacements for productivity machines of the time which offered 80 columns and cheap disk hardware.  The only one I think of which reached that level during its lifetime with support of the manufacturer was the Apple 2.  Pretty much everything else has 40 or around 40 columns (e.g. 22 for the VIC-20 and 32/40 for the TI-99/4A,) even the IBM PCjr has a 40 column mode for home use (since we tended to use TVs in the home.)  We are a different breed of hardware with over-lapping utility for those willing to eschew "big boy" monitors.

 

As Ergo says,

(And J.J. Abrahms needs to keep his grubby meat-beaters off this movie... period.)

[newTIboyRob]

@OLD CS1 

• programs over 12k... that would still be quite a few program lines relatively speaking though, yes?  In other words, you could still write a relatively somewhat involved couple page program before exceeding this threshold?
• so basically though I have a VGA monitor, looks like the 80 column is still out for me if/since I wont "expand" then?  
• I do suck it up after I am sure I just can not proceed, and I do accept the latter though that 1982 isn't 2023.  I do know this sir, but, yes.

Thank you, Ergo!

[+OLD CS1]

16 minutes ago, newTIboyRob said:

programs over 12k... that would still be quite a few program lines relatively speaking though, yes?  In other words, you could still write a relatively somewhat involved couple page program before exceeding this threshold?

Couple of pages?  Sure.  There are full XB games around will run without the extra memory.  Just something to be aware of; again, YMMV.

17 minutes ago, newTIboyRob said:

so basically though I have a VGA monitor, looks like the 80 column is still out for me if/since I wont "expand" then?

Is your output from the console composite?  The only option for 80-columns outside of hardware enhancement is a software solution, similar to like what was pointed out on the VIC-20.  I cannot think of any for the TI off the top of my head that go beyond the built-in 40 column text mode.

19 minutes ago, newTIboyRob said:

I do suck it up after I am sure I just can not proceed, and I do accept the latter though that 1982 isn't 2023.  I do know this sir, but, yes.

A good step.  Of course, it does not mean that someone cannot see a shortcoming of a system and make something to compensate.  But, I get to hear from people every once in a while who get nasty about various limitations.  It is much easier to enjoy a hobby.  Holy crap, the amount of really cool stuff we have because people decide to break barriers.

[newTIboyRob]

@OLD CS1... I hope it wasn't me who you felt was coming across as being nasty about the various limitations?  Not my intention, if so.  I am more like "darn, shucks, we can't have that, but oh well."

 

My output from the TI console is composite still I think?  It is the specially modified DIN cable  at the back of the TI which then has the yellow video connector going into a converter box which converts to VGA going out to the monitor.

 

Edited September 28, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[+OLD CS1]

1 hour ago, newTIboyRob said:

I hope it wasn't me who you felt was coming across as being nasty about the various limitations?  Not my intention, if so.  I am more like "darn, shucks, we can't have that, but oh well."

Nope, not you.

1 hour ago, newTIboyRob said:

My output from the TI console is composite still I think?  It is the specially modified DIN cable  at the back of the TI which then has the yellow video connector going into a converter box which converts to VGA going out to the monitor.

Then, yes, you are composite out of the console.  You can plonk down a clam and get beautifully crisp and clear VGA out of your TI, as well as enhanced graphics modes used in some games and 80-column mode, from @arcadeshopper here.  TIPI with a Pi-Zero to slip in a Speech Synthesizer housing can be found on eBay for under $100.

 

Come to the Dark Side... we have cookies.

[newTIboyRob]

I am still searching for 3 carts:  TI Extended Basic, Parsec, TI Invaders. Does anyone have these to sell me?

[+arcadeshopper]

I have them in my store

[RXB]

On 9/28/2023 at 11:37 AM, newTIboyRob said:

All good points, e.g. @OLD CS1

 

Thanks guys for all the gadget recommendations, but after going what I just went through with my VIC 20 AND even way more so with my Atari 600 XL in this area, there is NO way I am going near sidecar 32K ram expansions and these FINAL carts and the like, though they definitely sound cool. I know they are, as Spicoli would say, awesome, totally awesome, but the pond is dry over in these parts, so for now I will just stick with the antiquated-s that I have:

Console Writer cart, Radio Shack tape deck, a nice SIMS spreadsheet usable within memory confines, [soon to be TI invaders, Parsec, Extended Basic carts if need rebuying.]  Looks like TE II I can pass on if the Extended Basic can and will talk to me, which it can. I think I do have the special joystick adapter for the 2600 stix to play the 2 game carts.  But if I hit the lottery...you'll be hearing from me again in this department.

 

But please, oh please tell me that the Extended Basic cart can still be used on a stock TI 99 4/a, (without expansion)???   

 

Just while we're all here, and though it's unrelated... is it true there really isn't a practical, simple way to get 80 column in standard TI basic on a stock 4a?   Like when typing in programs in Ti Basic after booting.  (Maybe there isn't, but wasn't totally sure, as that was the case essentially with the VIC-20 without super playing around with it... so are we also just stuck here with those huge 1st grade-like letters?  Simultaneously both charming and annoying I suppose, but I would say it tips more towards the latter in all practicality.)

If you pick up a FinalGROM you can use you PC to load any cartridge or multiple cartridges and most will work without a 32K or expansion devices.

Now of course I will plug my product RXB that runs TI Basic programs way faster than TI Basic.

Other XB variants cannot use Assembly unlike RXB 2022 has Assembly built in with no need for 32K or expansion.

 

[newTIboyRob]

Thanks @RXB , but as I only plan on using these 3 items, I am going to stick with the carts. I am hoping someone on the forum would be able to sell me the 3 for a total of $25 including shipping. That puts the TI Invaders and Parsec around $5 each and the TI Extended Basic at around $12. The prices on Ebay are scandalous, and more importantly, I would rather stay in the community here.

[RXB]

7 hours ago, newTIboyRob said:

Thanks @RXB , but as I only plan on using these 3 items, I am going to stick with the carts. I am hoping someone on the forum would be able to sell me the 3 for a total of $25 including shipping. That puts the TI Invaders and Parsec around $5 each and the TI Extended Basic at around $12. The prices on Ebay are scandalous, and more importantly, I would rather stay in the community here.

LOL FINALGROM can load thousands of Cartridges and 90% are totally FREE!

You picked the most difficult and expensive route possible.

 

FINALGROM will pay for itself the first month you own it. Free is a insanely good price for most cartridges!

[newTIboyRob]

An Ebay search for FINALGROM cartridge for TI 99/4a computer yields basically nothing. Perhaps a link to what exactly you're referring to @RXB would be nice.

Edited October 9, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[+OLD CS1]

31 minutes ago, newTIboyRob said:

An Ebay search for FINALGROM cartridge for TI 99/4a computer yields basically nothing. Perhaps a link to what exactly you're referring to @RXB would be nice.

There are three listed from the UK.  Save your search as some do pop up fairly frequently.  Or, check out @arcadeshopper's store.

[newTIboyRob]

@OLD CS1 Is this one of the ones you are referring to?  https://www.ebay.com/itm/174686442616?hash=item28ac1f9478:g:0UAAAOSwhvpgUObx&amdata  which, with taxes and shipping comes to over $83? That is way more costly than somewhere around $25 for the 3 carts I mentioned, especially if that is what I am really only going for here.  Maybe I missed the memo.

[RXB]

4 hours ago, newTIboyRob said:

@OLD CS1 Is this one of the ones you are referring to?  https://www.ebay.com/itm/174686442616?hash=item28ac1f9478:g:0UAAAOSwhvpgUObx&amdata  which, with taxes and shipping comes to over $83? That is way more costly than somewhere around $25 for the 3 carts I mentioned, especially if that is what I am really only going for here.  Maybe I missed the memo.

Well comparing hundreds of FREE cartridges vs almost the same cost for 5 is not much of a bargain is it?

 

Pay $90 for hundreds of cartridges you can load into one cart or get 5 for same price and call that equal?

[+Ksarul]

1 hour ago, RXB said:

Well comparing hundreds of FREE cartridges vs almost the same cost for 5 is not much of a bargain is it?

 

Pay $90 for hundreds of cartridges you can load into one cart or get 5 for same price and call that equal?

Rich, it is a matter of use cases. If he wanted to have something that could run every cartridge ever made, he might have gone the FinalGROM route, but the three cartridges he's looking for fully meet his requirement and coincidentally cost much less than the FinalGROM would. I have routinely shelled all three of the cartridges he's looking for to get donor cartridge shells for various projects. His pricing estimates are definitely within reason, although I don't think I have any of them at the moment in my to-be-shelled box. . .as otherwise, I'd provide them.

[newTIboyRob]

@Ksarul   you said that 100% beautifully and you are right on point. You get where I am coming from, thank you.