newTIboyRob Posted October 6, 2023 Author Share Posted October 6, 2023 Oh I didn't know that real iron meant a real TI. Ok, I will definitely give that a go tonight then. Yes, should be quite the challenge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newTIboyRob Posted October 7, 2023 Author Share Posted October 7, 2023 (edited) @Atari2600PAL ... you're over in England. Just wondering if you got that program to work on a real TI 99 4/a that is PAL or NTSC? I am in the United States, and I tried for an hour to record that WAV file to tape, all with no success. Hopefully @HOME AUTOMATION you will share your thoughts as well as @mizapf as you are quite impressive as well. Here is a synopsis of the past hour's attempts: A short program I made just the other day successfully recorded, loaded and ran. So I know it is not the cassette recorder at "fault" here. I started here with Fresh Fuji C60 tape. After the first few tries with the provided WAV file, it was barely audible. I thought to open the WAV file in Audacity and watch the meters. Indeed it was a very low signal, no wonder it didn't record properly to tape; it was nowhere near 0 Watching the meters, I boosted the gain the maximum allowable, which in this case turned out to be +4.6, as anything higher crossed the 0 threshold into digital distortion I have a good audio 3.5mm cable coming straight out of the back of the PC where I disconnected my RealTech Speakers, and ran it straight into the AUX in on the tape recorder. I have recorded Atari WAV signals successfully this way, so I know the cable is good. There is no treble control on the tape recorder. I cranked the computer output that normally went to the speakers to its max of 100, and the tape recorder to its max of 10. I do notice a non-distorted, and significantly improved stronger signal and actually heard the otherworldly space data sounds on the tape. Yet all these trials and tribulations resulted in... NO DATA found, which as pointed out earlier means it was too low a signal STILL! in conjunction with some other issue as I/O Error 56 occurred. I can't think of any more here. Has anyone gotten that WAV signal recorded to tape AND successfully loaded back in an actual NTSC TI? If you did/can you are amazing, so please share! I can't think of what I could do any better or further above, short of giving up on the whole project which, at this point, is ANOTHER vendetta, so I am determined to get this thing working. Any thoughts here? Edited October 7, 2023 by newTIboyRob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmusr Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 1 hour ago, newTIboyRob said: Watching the meters, I boosted the gain the maximum allowable, which in this case turned out to be +4.6, as anything higher crossed the 0 threshold into digital distortion Is that +4.6 db? My Audacity suggests +3.121 db as the max, which results in the attached. TI-994A CALC(ti-basic) max.wav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Atari2600PAL Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 1 hour ago, newTIboyRob said: @Atari2600PAL ... you're over in England. Just wondering if you got that program to work on a real TI 99 4/a that is PAL or NTSC? I am in the United States, and I tried for an hour to record that WAV file to tape, all with no success It’s an NTSC with an F18a VGA installed I used a small tape unit which can also play from USB (which is where I put the wav), along with an audio booster to load it (was just confirming it worked on a real TI) I’ve not had much success creating tapes directly from wav/mp3, hence why I said that was the challenge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Atari2600PAL Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 I just recorded the wav to a tape, with no audio booster, and it loaded fine from my normal TI cassette deck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newTIboyRob Posted October 7, 2023 Author Share Posted October 7, 2023 (edited) @Atari2600PAL ... I wonder if that's the difference here, you have the PAL, I have the NTSC. That may play a role here. It's a pity (for me) you are in England as I am in New York since you already got that to tape! You said you haven't had much success creating tapes directly from wav as a challenge.. more like a nightmare! @Asmusr yes, I pushed it as far as it could go, to the +4.6 db mark, as +4.7 db resulted in exceeding over the 0 distortion threshold limit. I will try what you posted though, thanks. Edited October 7, 2023 by newTIboyRob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newTIboyRob Posted October 8, 2023 Author Share Posted October 8, 2023 Well, I took that last Audacity file and even added the most I could after that, which was another 1.5 db. I could hear the data... but still I/O 56. Is it possible something is up with the actual data in the file? It says no data after about 6 tape counters of playback, yet I can still hear it. Maybe now it is even too loud, is that possible? I was going by the 0 at the Audacity meter and it was pinned, but the tape is quite loud even at vol 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOME AUTOMATION Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 (edited) Perhaps noise is getting into the signal. How are you coupling the pc to the recorder? PC's sound cards have very different out put levels. Some can drive small speakers, while others require amplification. I'd try something like this player... USB Portable Digital MP3 Music Player LCD Screen Support 32GB TF Card & FM Radio ...Not a personal endorsement! But I have used an Olympus voice recorder successfully. If you can re-up the sound from your player, maybe signal analysis will reveal something Edited October 8, 2023 by HOME AUTOMATION Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newTIboyRob Posted October 8, 2023 Author Share Posted October 8, 2023 I have been using a standard 3.5 mm audio cable out of the back of the PC where the speakers are disconnected. I tried even lowering it recording to tape, but that fails too. This is SO tricky! I recorded an Atari WAV file with success so I know the combo can work.... it just isn't working here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newTIboyRob Posted October 8, 2023 Author Share Posted October 8, 2023 (edited) Oh, I realized I made an error a few posts ago, @Atari2600PAL you have the NTSC, not the PAL. But you still got it to work and I can't, and you live in England and I don't. Sorry, my mistake earlier. It's a shame too. @HOME AUTOMATION are you located in the US or overseas? I have something similar to the device you posted, it has a mic jack on top and an earphone jack on the side. Do you think this might work: what if I run the audio cable out of the back of the PC and into the mic in jack of the recorder, record the WAV, and then connect the cable out of this unit's earphone jack straight into the AUX in on the tape recorder? (I also have an earphone jack on the front of the PC.) If that doesn't work, the only thing left that I can think of is: if someone in the US is willing to try their luck at getting that WAV file saved to an actual tape that can load and run on an actual TI and send it to me, I will gladly reimburse you for the shipping cost. My thought here is: perhaps you have a means to store the WAV file digitally, as above, with a better chance of getting a stronger, cleaner hiss-free signal from the start out of it and then dump it to tape, that may prove the difference. But you would also have to have an actual TI as I do to test that it is likely to work on my end too. I really don't want to abandon the concept of getting this program on tape, considering my tape recorder is still saving and loading other tapes I have and I can still use it until it actually does die. But I am running out of options here, and, patience, since I have been down this road before recently with 2 other completely different computer systems. Edited October 8, 2023 by newTIboyRob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Atari2600PAL Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 Unfortunately patience is needed, in this aspect of the TI-99 It's taken me several months (and various purchases) to get to a point where I can consistently & successfully save/load WAV/MP3 files To be honest I was surprised I managed to record a tape direct from wav (rather than load onto TI and then save to tape) but I've just purchased 10 x TDK PC15 (C15) tapes and it was one of those I used (rather than the C90's I've been playing with) There are so many factors at play If I were in the US I'd send you a tested tape, but cost, shipping time and risk of magnetic damage in-transit doesn't really make it worthwhile from the UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOME AUTOMATION Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 (edited) Perhaps if you turn the PC's output down, and use the tape-recorder's MIC input. Edit: Haha, didn't read this right... 1 hour ago, newTIboyRob said: Do you think this might work: what if I run the audio cable out of the back of the PC and into the mic in jack of the recorder, record the WAV, and then connect the cable out of this unit's earphone jack straight into the AUX in on the tape recorder? (I also have an earphone jack on the front of the PC.) Why not leave the tape recorder out of the equation altogether? Edited October 8, 2023 by HOME AUTOMATION 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newTIboyRob Posted October 8, 2023 Author Share Posted October 8, 2023 (edited) @Atari2600PAL... my thoughts exactly, hence my asking for US-based help. I am using a c60 Fuji tape. At least you have had nice success with yours @HOME AUTOMATION .. you are overseas as well? How could I leave the tape recorder out of the equation altogether? If I manage to get the WAV file to the little digital recorder, wouldn't it remain there useless until I get that over to the cassette? I would need the tape recorder to do that, which a tape could then be played back and read by the TI, yes? (I don't see how I could leave out the tape recorder is what I am saying.) Edited October 8, 2023 by newTIboyRob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+arcadeshopper Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 @HOME AUTOMATION is ntsc On 10/8/2023 at 8:22 AM, newTIboyRob said: @Atari2600PAL... my thoughts exactly, hence my asking for US-based help. I am using a c60 Fuji tape. At least you have had nice success with yours @HOME AUTOMATION .. you are overseas as well? How could I leave the tape recorder out of the equation altogether? If I manage to get the WAV file to the little digital recorder, wouldn't it remain there useless until I get that over to the cassette? I would need the tape recorder to do that, which a tape could then be played back and read by the TI, yes? (I don't see how I could leave out the tape recorder is what I am saying.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed in SoDak Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 (edited) Compact portable cassette recorders have a loud output. Home music or boom box types may not. The forum members who are suggesting connecting the PC output into the recorders mic, that will boost it enough to feed your TI99/4a. Go ahead and have a tape in it to record. Yo should be able to both save your WAV program to tape and Load it into the TI at the same time. Next time. you'll only need your newly made tape. Edited October 9, 2023 by Ed in SoDak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOME AUTOMATION Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 23 hours ago, newTIboyRob said: @HOME AUTOMATION are you located in the US or overseas? I'm afraid I cannot answer that @newTIboyRob, and as you are a newcomer here, may I say, it is inappropriate for you to ask. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newTIboyRob Posted October 9, 2023 Author Share Posted October 9, 2023 @HOME AUTOMATION ... the first part of your answer would have sufficed. I didn't think it was so inappropriate to ask. I thought after the first time I asked perhaps you hadn't seen it, so I asked again. When you didn't respond the second time, I realized you didn't want to answer. The rest of your comment was completely uncalled for really, and just downright condescending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOME AUTOMATION Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 While the first part of my statement was in earnest ...the rest completes it as a classic Poker line(learned when I was eight). Meant merely as a witticism, not to denigrate. Sorry, if I failed to make clear in my earlier post, I am not fortunate enough to have real TI, setup right now. So, I could not test the .wav file. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newTIboyRob Posted October 9, 2023 Author Share Posted October 9, 2023 A complete stranger to you would never have known that. I was offended by that comment, taken at face value. I have actually been a member here since February 2015, so though I might not have the knowledge of many people on the forum, I wasn't exactly born yesterday either. My screenname, created back then, just happens to have the word "new" in it. Anyway, moving on... @Ed in SoDak ... I tried using the mic input on the tape recorder, at volume 8, with attempts out of the PC at 50, 75, 90, and 100. All failed, and a very noticeably loud 60 hz hum was now present on the tape, even at half volume using the mic input... so those were all no gos. With every single attempt I have made, the TI brings back a NO DATA FOUND error. I must have made at least 24 attempts now. Tomorrow I will make one last attempt at using another tape recorder I just found while cleaning up. This one does have a treble control, and maybe if I crank it, I am hoping I might have better luck. But I wouldn't bet the ranch on that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Atari2600PAL Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 Have you tried using the usb player device you mention having and connecting it directly to the TI with no tape drive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newTIboyRob Posted October 9, 2023 Author Share Posted October 9, 2023 Actually it is more like that Olympus digital recorder, it is not a USB player connection. It has an earphone out jack on the side though. I would have to come out of the PC into the Mic jack on that unit (and then anyway out of the earphone jack onto tape.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 33 minutes ago, newTIboyRob said: Actually it is more like that Olympus digital recorder, it is not a USB player connection. It has an earphone out jack on the side though. I would have to come out of the PC into the Mic jack on that unit (and then anyway out of the earphone jack onto tape.) Why does it have to go onto tape? Why can't you connect the digital recorder to the TI? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newTIboyRob Posted October 9, 2023 Author Share Posted October 9, 2023 I guess I am not following. Some of you are saying connect the earphone out of the device to the TI... but where and how on the TI? I only see the monitor out and cassette out port at the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Atari2600PAL Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 Plug the white TI 3.5mm input jack into the 3.5mm ear socket on the USB device Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Atari2600PAL Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 Like this (obviously your USB device is different to mine) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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