Berzerk Recharged has just been announced!

[jerseystyle]

Watched the video… not a fan of the graphics. It feels like a weird change from the other Recharged games. I think it looks a bit cheap. 

[+Sauron]

1 hour ago, MrTrust said:

I didn't start with you.  You started with me, passive-aggressively, with your "grumpy old man comment".  It was gratuitous and I take exception to it.

 

No, I don't believe it's a mere matter of preference, and that there is an objective goodness or badness to things.  Disagree with that?  Your prerogative.  You want to defend the game on its merits and have a discussion about it?  Up for it.  Don't obliquely reference me and accuse me of "whining" and "yelling at the kids" because things don't fit my personal preference.  That's not what I'm doing and if you don't want a debate, don't start one.

 

Fair or not fair?

My comment was a general reference to the whining and complaining that's been going on here about not just the Recharged games, but about many other things, and furthermore, it wasn't specifically pointed at you. If you want to take it personally, well, that's your prerogative, not mine, and not every comment that disagrees with you is one that's angling for a debate. 

 

[JPF997]

1 hour ago, jerseystyle said:

Watched the video… not a fan of the graphics. It feels like a weird change from the other Recharged games. I think it looks a bit cheap. 

Jersey correct me if I'm wrong but weren't you on ledzep's camp in regards to the recharged series debate's that have been going on this past week on my other thread (the synthwave debate, power ups, control's etc ), if so I would think that you would prefer this new less synthwavy direction they're taking with this game.

[Lord Mushroom]

3 hours ago, Defender_2600 said:

The gameplay, timing, art style, animations, sound, and atmosphere of the original game appear to have been lost.

The gun should definately have had a more "pew pew" sound.

[roots.genoa]

8 hours ago, famicommander said:

I think this one might be fun to play too, I just think it looks really awful from a visual standpoint. Noticeably worse than any of the other games in the series.

I agree with you, incredible! 🍾

[ledzep]

12 hours ago, MrTrust said:

Disappointed.

 

Not being able to move while you fire is the whole essence of Berzerk.  This is like remaking Galaxian so you can have more than one shot on screen simultaneously.  No!  That's where the strategy and tension of the game comes from.  You make this an up-tempo twin-stick shooter, then what's to distinguish it from any of the other 1,000 new twin-stick shooters that are clogging up every online storefront out there?

 

Agreed.  This is the core complaint for the recharged games by people who don't like them, I would assume.  Sure, there are the superficial complaints - shitty music or cartoony graphics, but when you say a new game is a recharged version of an original game, it should/must retain the gameplay of the original, at least for a major portion of the game.  The original gameplay and rules is what distinguishes the original from its peers.  Otherwise it's just stealing the name of the original to get more sales.

 

You point out something that was important and frustrating (a challenge) about the original, having to stop to shoot.  That's what made the game hard.  Don't these fucking newer gamers want a challenge?  I don't mean a collect all the power-ups challenge or a see the most colors challenge, but figure out how to win while being restricted by certain gameplay quirks.  Now see, that would be a great power-up for a recharged Berzerk, for 10 seconds you can run and shoot at the same time!  Holy shit, so much easier!!  Aw, now it's gone, I need that power-up again!  That would require forethought and an appreciation for the original.  Newer gamers could care less, they just want power-ups.

 

Same goes for Galaxian (if a recharged version exists), only one shot on the screen at the same time.  Synthwave or no synthwave, you must keep that for any updates, at least for a majority of the new game.  Otherwise what are you playing, really?  A generic shooter that kind of looks like Galaxian.

 

This is the problem with basically all of these recharged games, they abandon the actual gameplay details of the originals.  Sure, they look similar, have similar goals, but the reason for the originals being original (gameplay) is ignored.  The recharged Centipede, Asteroids and Missile Command are probably the worst.  Gravitar is closer to the original, I would say, though all suffer from not forcing the original controls to be used as well.  Berzerk wasn't a complex game so there's not much to fuck with but they found a way to take out the one thing that made Berzerk interesting.

 

10 hours ago, Nall3k said:

I could see a lot of modern gamers rejecting a game that forces you to stop moving to shoot. Adjustments were inevitable for today's market appeal.

 

You're probably right.  So why butcher an original game's uniqueness?  Tell me honestly, would you be any less inclined to want to play this new game if it was called something else?  If looked/played exactly the same as that trailer video but it was called Droid Hunt or Escape From Robot Prison, would you not be interested?  That tells you everything.

 

If you're going to say it's a sequel/recharge of Berzerk, you must keep the gameplay of Berzerk, at least for most of the time.  Maybe you change it up in later levels or with power-ups or new bosses or whatever, but to say "Hey, Berzerk fans, ready for a bigger, better Berzerk?" then you better deliver Berzerk in whatever new graphical form you choose, in this instance it means either run or shoot, but not both.  Maybe add grenades, that would be cool.  But you have to stop to lob them.

 

Do modern gamers really want all their games to behave the same way?  You make a game harder or weirder than 90% of the others and they're out?  Really?  That seems sad to me, back in the arcade days nobody was expecting or demanding that the new games act like the current/previous games, they actually welcome New, if a game seemed like merely a rip-off of a previous game most gamers were disappointed from what I remember.

Edited October 6, 2023 by ledzep

[ledzep]

9 hours ago, JPF997 said:

Some people ( you know who I'm talking about) didn't like the synthwave look of the other recharged games so Atari changes things a little bit and now other people aren't satisfied, I guess sometimes you just can't win no matter what you do...

 

I wonder who those amazing guys were.  Sounds like they had a good point.

 

There you go.  If the synthwave look is so great, why isn't this recharged game also looking like those others?  Because Berzerk beat them to the punch, it already (mostly) had that look.  Since the synthwave looks isn't anything important, and since this game isn't also sharing that synthwave look because it was already 90% there so they went in the opposite direction, then obviously the synthwave look was merely change for change's sake.  Which means it was superficial, not necessary or useful.  Otherwise, to hell with Berzerk already kinda looking synthwave, we'll just amp up the synthiness!  If some is good, more must be even better!!

 

"No matter what you do"?  Have you considered keeping the gameplay of the original instead of turning all the games into power-up Easter egg hunts?  That was certainly an option.  Don't act like there are only 2 choices, either.  Make everything look synthwave!  Wait, this one already looks pretty synthwave.  Ok, make it look nothing like synthwave!

 

The visual changes for the recharged games are secondary to how they play.  And they all play like zombie games or simply wrong when compared to the originals from which they were named.  Seriously, what do you think makes a game a game different from other games?  Can you not tell the difference between Galaxian, Space Firebird and Moon Cresta?  A casual glance says they're all the same game with different colors and shapes, but if you play them you can tell what each one is doing and quickly figure out which one is the hardest/funnest and which one is your favorite.  Can you not tell the difference between Star Fire, Tail Gunner and Star Wars?  How about Pac-Man, Rally-X, Wizard Of Wor and Dig Dug?  Sort of superficially similar but if you expect them to all the play the same you'll be very surprised, the gameplay and rules make them unique.

 

So, yes, the synthwave look (and music) contribute to making recharged games less appealing to play (unless you're into that) but the gameplay change is the major issue (and the most critical).  Again, I don't mind power-ups if they work within the original gameplay.  So like I mentioned above, keep the original Berzerk restriction of shoot or move but allow the occasional power-up (not one every 10 fucking seconds) that allows you to do both (with less points per kill).  In Centipede, have a power-up that slows down the spider for 5 seconds so that you can easily kill him (with reduced score) or a power-up gun that makes the centipedes run back up the screen but only lasts 5 seconds.  In Missile Command, I like the homing missile idea, but I would restrict it to one or two missiles per base (maybe randomly placed in the bases or have a button underneath the 3 base buttons that you have to press to launch the homing missile, ya, it makes it harder, earn it!) and not every level, either (obviously).  You see where I'm going with this, I hope.  Wholesale changes make them completely different games (even if they look similar), name them something else because gamers like me expecting Original Game+ are going to get pissed off that they don't play like the originals at all.  Don't tell me they do when you haven't even played them with the correct controls, what would you know from correct controls contributing to the gameplay of the originals.  At least you did give them a shot in their original versions, you saw how differently they act and how even being able to play the recharged versions well, that didn't help you last very long with the older versions, even using controls you're more familiar with.  That tells you everything about how the recharged games have very different gameplay.  Which matters.

 

No, they shouldn't be clones, but they shouldn't completely abandon what made the originals unique, either.  Otherwise, why give them the same names + "Recharged"?

[+GoldLeader]

I think if you like it,

 

you should put up a wall of text saying why.

 

 

And I think if you don't like it,

 

you should put up a wall of text saying why not.

[JPF997]

2 hours ago, ledzep said:

 

I wonder who those amazing guys were.  Sounds like they had a good point.

 

There you go.  If the synthwave look is so great, why isn't this recharged game also looking like those others?  Because Berzerk beat them to the punch, it already (mostly) had that look.  Since the synthwave looks isn't anything important, and since this game isn't also sharing that synthwave look because it was already 90% there so they went in the opposite direction, then obviously the synthwave look was merely change for change's sake.  Which means it was superficial, not necessary or useful.  Otherwise, to hell with Berzerk already kinda looking synthwave, we'll just amp up the synthiness!  If some is good, more must be even better!!

 

"No matter what you do"?  Have you considered keeping the gameplay of the original instead of turning all the games into power-up Easter egg hunts?  That was certainly an option.  Don't act like there are only 2 choices, either.  Make everything look synthwave!  Wait, this one already looks pretty synthwave.  Ok, make it look nothing like synthwave!

 

The visual changes for the recharged games are secondary to how they play.  And they all play like zombie games or simply wrong when compared to the originals from which they were named.  Seriously, what do you think makes a game a game different from other games?  Can you not tell the difference between Galaxian, Space Firebird and Moon Cresta?  A casual glance says they're all the same game with different colors and shapes, but if you play them you can tell what each one is doing and quickly figure out which one is the hardest/funnest and which one is your favorite.  Can you not tell the difference between Star Fire, Tail Gunner and Star Wars?  How about Pac-Man, Rally-X, Wizard Of Wor and Dig Dug?  Sort of superficially similar but if you expect them to all the play the same you'll be very surprised, the gameplay and rules make them unique.

 

So, yes, the synthwave look (and music) contribute to making recharged games less appealing to play (unless you're into that) but the gameplay change is the major issue (and the most critical).  Again, I don't mind power-ups if they work within the original gameplay.  So like I mentioned above, keep the original Berzerk restriction of shoot or move but allow the occasional power-up (not one every 10 fucking seconds) that allows you to do both (with less points per kill).  In Centipede, have a power-up that slows down the spider for 5 seconds so that you can easily kill him (with reduced score) or a power-up gun that makes the centipedes run back up the screen but only lasts 5 seconds.  In Missile Command, I like the homing missile idea, but I would restrict it to one or two missiles per base (maybe randomly placed in the bases or have a button underneath the 3 base buttons that you have to press to launch the homing missile, ya, it makes it harder, earn it!) and not every level, either (obviously).  You see where I'm going with this, I hope.  Wholesale changes make them completely different games (even if they look similar), name them something else because gamers like me expecting Original Game+ are going to get pissed off that they don't play like the originals at all.  Don't tell me they do when you haven't even played them with the correct controls, what would you know from correct controls contributing to the gameplay of the originals.  At least you did give them a shot in their original versions, you saw how differently they act and how even being able to play the recharged versions well, that didn't help you last very long with the older versions, even using controls you're more familiar with.  That tells you everything about how the recharged games have very different gameplay.  Which matters.

 

No, they shouldn't be clones, but they shouldn't completely abandon what made the originals unique, either.  Otherwise, why give them the same names + "Recharged"?

[GraffitiTavern]

I think this is the first Recharged game with humanoid characters, it doesn't mesh well with the art style imo. I would have preferred they gone with a different art style and done some non-Recharged branding a la Lunar Lander Beyond.

EDIT: Fun hearing the "have you played Atari today" jingle at the end

Edited October 6, 2023 by GraffitiTavern

[jerseystyle]

9 hours ago, JPF997 said:

Jersey correct me if I'm wrong but weren't you on ledzep's camp in regards to the recharged series debate's that have been going on this past week on my other thread (the synthwave debate, power ups, control's etc ), if so I would think that you would prefer this new less synthwavy direction they're taking with this game.

No actually, I’ve said multiple times in various threads that I liked how the Recharged games all shared a similar aesthetic. It gave them a sense of identity (compared to the Amico games for example). I disagreed with the idea that Synthwave was the ultimate evolution of music and Atari (or whatever was being thrown about) but the art style fit the games in my opinion. This isn’t an opinion on gameplay, however, as I’d only played a few. The style for this one just doesn’t work for me.  What’s weird is Berzerk was already in that style in the first place so it makes even MORE sense to lean into that framework… and instead they moved away from it. 

[Zoyous]

Overall I really like the Recharged series. But in this case I do agree with those saying the art direction in this is not up to the standard set so far. I'd prefer to see some stylish pixel art - something like Superbrothers: Sword and Sworcery comes to mind, but it could still be in this kind of neon/blacklight/glow aesthetic. However, having gone with a flat color illustration style, I could still get into that if it was more expressively drawn and fluidly animated.

 

I'd also like to bring up a point about the music. This might be a good point for these developers (and CEOs) who weren't around at the time that these games were new. Arcades back in the day were infused with hard rock music, not much electronic music. There were beginning to be some artists popularizing electronic instruments but this whole "make everything synthwave" thing was not happening and is just a figment of the imaginary 80s thought up by young cats.

Edited October 6, 2023 by Zoyous

[Nall3k]

7 hours ago, ledzep said:

You're probably right.  So why butcher an original game's uniqueness?  Tell me honestly, would you be any less inclined to want to play this new game if it was called something else?  If looked/played exactly the same as that trailer video but it was called Droid Hunt or Escape From Robot Prison, would you not be interested?  That tells you everything.

 

If you're going to say it's a sequel/recharge of Berzerk, you must keep the gameplay of Berzerk, at least for most of the time.  Maybe you change it up in later levels or with power-ups or new bosses or whatever, but to say "Hey, Berzerk fans, ready for a bigger, better Berzerk?" then you better deliver Berzerk in whatever new graphical form you choose, in this instance it means either run or shoot, but not both.  Maybe add grenades, that would be cool.  But you have to stop to lob them.

 

Do modern gamers really want all their games to behave the same way?  You make a game harder or weirder than 90% of the others and they're out?  Really?  That seems sad to me, back in the arcade days nobody was expecting or demanding that the new games act like the current/previous games, they actually welcome New, if a game seemed like merely a rip-off of a previous game most gamers were disappointed from what I remember.

I've never played the original, but am interested in trying this out. Game mechanics always change, look at survival games now to when they were 30+ years ago with fixed camera perspectives. Halo, Call of Duty, etc... have all changed, some not for the better. 

You want an example of a game that didn't change with the times? Shenmue 3. I love Shenmue and Shenmue 2 and always will, but Yu Suzuki not adjusting to modern gameplay mechanics was probably detrimental to any potential sequel.

[zzip]

I'm never quite sure what exactly we should expect from modern remakes.   They could go in so many directions.   The graphics are so primitive that you're likely to lose something by modernizing them.   

 

And the gameplay,  For the original games,  I often have to ask "Is that a bug or a feature?"     Not being able to run and shoot at the same time,  or only being able to shoot one shot at a time in Galaxian.    Many games had this "one shot" thing going on, and it's usually due to hardware restrictions or being easier to program that way rather than design choices?    I suspect they weren't deliberate design choices, so I don't get upset if they don't stick to that-  But on the other hand if Berzerk Recharged doesn't include the ability for robots to shoot straight through your neck, it won't feel right (again neck invincibility probably had to do with sprite collision detection rather than a deliberate design choice)

 

Atari has Haunted House coming out next week,   I'm excited for it, I the art style looks cool.    But it doesn't have a whole lot in common with the original game.    In all honesty,  I don't really want a modern haunted house game to look like the original with sparse rooms and a pair of eyeballs.  I want something creepier.   If Atari had evolved their properties over the years like Nintendo did,  then modern versions wouldn't feel like a shock to the system, they'd seem more like the logical next step in the franchise.   But because so much time has passed since the original release, there's going to be drastic changes that don't please everyone.

 

But for the purists who feel the new versions aren't true enough, the originals are still available.  There's a new 2600 Berzerk voice-enhanced coming out,  and I'm sure the arcade Berzerk will show up in the next Atari compilation.

 

 

[Lord Mushroom]

It seems to me they have got the the gameplay, graphics, sounds and so on pretty much exactly right. The game is still recognizable enough that those who love the original game will buy it, and those who think the original game is outdated may like this more modern game.

[digdugnate]

harrumph harrumph harrumph!

[roots.genoa]

If this Berzerk Recharged looked like Amico's Night Stalker remake, it would fit better with the Recharged series imho.

[+SpiceWare]

Those unhappy with Berzerk Recharged might like to check out Frantic. While I did add things like homing missiles and invisible robots, those features can be enabled/disabled via the menu.  

 

 

 

 

 

[jerseystyle]

1 hour ago, roots.genoa said:

If this Berzerk Recharged looked like Amico's Night Stalker remake, it would fit better with the Recharged series imho.

I think Night Stalker looked pretty good. That would’ve fit with the Berzerk vibe, I feel.  The actual game just looks flat. I’m disappointed in the graphic choices they made. Evil Otto looks more like a meme than an enemy. 

[ledzep]

12 hours ago, JPF997 said:

 

Disappointing, but very predictable.  Nothing substantive to add, just "whatever".  "No one who came before me with more knowledge than I have is worth listening to!" said every kid ever.  I suppose when you need to learn about something from before your time you must ask someone younger than you since the older generations don't know what they're talking about?  I bet that's effective.

 

When you're serious about wanting to be a real or complete Atari fan, not just an "Atari since I was young" fan, go through the old games and play them accurately, with the correct controls.  You may not like how they play, which is fair, not everyone back then liked all that Atari put out (compared to other games/companies), but you'll finally have a base knowledge of what started it all and what makes these newer versions different.  You'll actually understand where the criticisms are coming from, whether you agree or not.  Playing good emulations on a PS5 with a gamepad isn't good enough for an honest evaluation of the classics, though I suppose it's better than nothing.  The bar isn't so high that you can't clear it given the many options available to you (compared to back when those games were new).

[SIO2]

Not sure what to make of this one.  I kind of like the human character.  Looks like it plays faster than I function these days though. 

 

And what happens when you hit a wall?  That is the most important thing.  Do you fry like a bug hitting a zapper and your smoking eyeballs pop out and roll across the floor?

 

 

[JPF997]

1 hour ago, ledzep said:

 

Disappointing, but very predictable.  Nothing substantive to add, just "whatever".  "No one who came before me with more knowledge than I have is worth listening to!" said every kid ever.  I suppose when you need to learn about something from before your time you must ask someone younger than you since the older generations don't know what they're talking about?  I bet that's effective.

 

When you're serious about wanting to be a real or complete Atari fan, not just an "Atari since I was young" fan, go through the old games and play them accurately, with the correct controls.  You may not like how they play, which is fair, not everyone back then liked all that Atari put out (compared to other games/companies), but you'll finally have a base knowledge of what started it all and what makes these newer versions different.  You'll actually understand where the criticisms are coming from, whether you agree or not.  Playing good emulations on a PS5 with a gamepad isn't good enough for an honest evaluation of the classics, though I suppose it's better than nothing.  The bar isn't so high that you can't clear it given the many options available to you (compared to back when those games were new).

It was just a funny meme bro, no need to take everything so seriously.In any event discussing this topic further with you Is like talking to a brick wall, you're not going to change your opinion no matter what I say so what's the point of even trying... Welp here we go again.

There isn't a single way to play Atari games correctly nor is there such a thing as becoming a "complete" Atari gamer, if you enjoy playing these games with what you have available to you that's good enough.Also  in regards to Berzerk Recharged maybe they choose to use another theme for it because they wanted to spice things up a bit, this new game having a new look doesn't invalidate the others all having  synthwave aesthetics, even Atari admits in they're Twitter account that this one is very different from all the other recharged games, maybe the developers just wanted to try something new, this doesn't proove any little conspiracy theory you're developing on you're head over this change. Same thing with the gameplay changes, when will you understand that It's not feasible to expect mainstream audience's to play these games the way you want them to, Atari has to slightly alter the gameplay in the recharged series so that it's more suited to be played with modern controllers and keyboard and mouses and be more accessible to general audience's  (hence the things you don't like, music, power ups, flashy explosions, being able to shoot while running in Berzerk or having infinite ammo in missile command etc), if you don't like that fine but don't expect new players interested in Atari to play exactly like you play these games, that's just not gonna happen.

[Razzie.P]

16 hours ago, GoldLeader said:

I think if you like it,

 

you should put up a wall of text saying why.

 

 

And I think if you don't like it,

 

you should put up a wall of text saying why not.

Yep.   And be sure to antagonize the older peeps to help ensure the thread continues to grow with several pages of bickering.

[ledzep]

8 hours ago, Nall3k said:

I've never played the original, but am interested in trying this out. Game mechanics always change, look at survival games now to when they were 30+ years ago with fixed camera perspectives. Halo, Call of Duty, etc... have all changed, some not for the better. 

 

Absolutely but, correct me if I'm wrong, those games you're bringing up aren't all in the same family, right?  Call Of Duty isn't a sequel to Halo, is it?  Games within a genre changing or improving (or failing) is fine and expected, it's the inevitable evolution of those games as a whole trying to separate themselves from the crowd.  But that's not what I'm talking about.  My criticism is limited to a new game claiming to be a recharged version of a known older game but what made that older game unique (compared to similar-looking older games) is discarded like it's unimportant when, in fact, it's the most important part of what made that original game special.

 

Unless recharged literally means "looks sort of like the older game but plays almost nothing like it".  Then, ok, I misunderstood.  What would be the difference changing the name of Berzerk: Recharged to Pac-Man: Recharged, then?  Doesn't look the same?  Check.  Doesn't play the same?  Check.  Both have mazes with walls.  Done.  Why are you complaining?  It's "recharged", that means it has almost no attachment to the original!

 

8 hours ago, Nall3k said:

You want an example of a game that didn't change with the times? Shenmue 3. I love Shenmue and Shenmue 2 and always will, but Yu Suzuki not adjusting to modern gameplay mechanics was probably detrimental to any potential sequel.

 

 

Apparently this guy shares your point of view.  I don't play that type of game, it's never interested me, but I can take his (and your) word for it that this sequel is weak and for the reasons you both give.

 

This "let's live inside a movie" type of game is popular, but nowhere near my style so I have nothing to base any way to evaluate them to say they're good or not.  The closest thing to this look that I was ever willing to play was something like Time Cop, which I know is nowhere near the same thing even though it looks superficially similar.  I don't want/need philosophy or character development, I want to clear levels of targets, hahaaha.

 

One thing I don't get about this reviewer's complaints is that he says this 3rd version sucks because it hasn't moved beyond the original, but he says the original was amazing because what this 3rd version is doing now pissing him off is more or less what the original was also doing but in that instance it was impressive.  He does not say that he used to think the original was impressive but now he sees that it is shit as well.  So I have to believe that if he now plays the first game again he will hate it.  But that's not what it sounds like in this review.  Somehow the original doing X is still fantastic but the 3rd version doing basically the same X is crap?  Oh, ok, I see what he means about the fucked-up changes to the combat system, that blows, there should be an option to use the old system (if possible) even if it's harder for a wider audience to master.  Man, that run-through is hell to watch.  Hahahaa, this guy is ready to choke someone to death.

 

 

I mean, I liked VCTR-SCTR mainly because it seems to look and act like the original games.  Sure there may be slight differences but in general it "hasn't changed" from the originals that are decades old.  On top of that, it could do anything it wanted specifically because it's not named Space Duel: Recharged or something else referencing an original game with baked-in expectations.

[Razzie.P]

I don't really see any of "Berzerk" in this.  Maybe it's just me, though.  It could be a neat game  -- it doesn't really look any better or worse than any other quickly made twin stick shooter, from what's shown -- but other than the name and an "iconic enemy," what aspects of Berzerk am I not seeing?